The Unmaking Of Gujrat Hi Farzana:

You make so many gaffes to begin with that it’s hard to continue reading your ‘articles’. Like someone pointed out Ravana neither had a tail nor used it to burn anything. And if you have Gujarati roots how come you used the expression ‘Modibhai’? Anybody who was even half way familiar with Gujarati expression wouldn’t use the suffix ‘bhai’ after a surname. Maybe your disappointment in the fact that your intelligent readers tend to disagree with you is misplaced after all. I mean if they loyally read your stuff how intelligent can they really be?

Sorry to rain on your parade but pasted below is a fine article by a much more accomplished writer.


A different loneliness
Ten years after the Babri demolition
by Saeed Naqvi

I have tried to induce in myself a nostalgia, some sort of emotion, on the 10th anniversary of the fall of Babri Masjid and have drawn a blank. In another context, Wordsworth talked of the loss of that ‘visionary gleam’. Possibly, something inside me has dried up.
In my years as a journalist I have reverted repeatedly to my village, Mustafabad, near Rae Bareli, where my earliest sensibilities were shaped by grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins and, above all, my father and mother. Ours was a Muslim home, a mosque dominating our courtyard. But the cultural derivatives of this Islam were set against a broad Hindu civilisational framework. It was not something we discussed. It was something we lived.
Our marriage rituals were rituals of Avadh and therefore, I dare say, Hindu. If one of our cousins was in the family way my mother would arrange for Aseemun to be around for the childbirth. How could a baby be born in our house without Aseemun singing in her full-throated style, my mother’s favourite sohar, song sung at childbirth in our villages. Allah mian hamare bhaiyya ka diyo nand Lal (Oh my Allah give my brother a son like Lord Krishna). The controller of ceremonies, both at weddings and at childbirth, was the nawan, or the barber’s wife. Whether Hindu or Muslim, she brought into the rituals and the festivities the cultural elements of the Hindu countryside.
Even our religious poetry was occasionally cast in a Hindu ambience. The greatest epics on various aspects of the tragedy of Karbala were written by Mir Anis who is regarded as the greatest master of Urdu diction. These poems, or Marsias, are the staple at most Moharram congregations particularly in areas around Avadh.
Even though all of Anis’s characters like Imam Hussain, the prophet’s grandson, Abbas, his brother, Zainab, his sister and a range of sisters and daughters-in-law, are historically Arab, Anis has delineated his characters as quintessentially Avadhi. In their speech and demeanour they come across as Indian. Bano-e-nek naam ki kheti, hari rahey/ Sandal se maang, bachchon/ Se godi bhari rahey (May the parting in Bano’s hair always carry a streak of sandalwood and may her house always be filled with the laughter of children).
My grandmother could actually recite passages from Padmavat, the classic in Avadhi written by Malik Mohammad Jaisi. This epic again is dotted with Hindu lore. Wali Dakhini or Wali Gujarati was another favourite set to tunes by Aseemun. Koocha-e yaar ain Kashi, hai/ Jogia dil wahan ka Vaasi, haai (My beloved’s neighbourhood is exactly like the holy city of Kashi; and the yogi of my heart has taken up residence in that city).
Yes, this is the same Wali Gujarati whose grave was levelled by the rioters in Ahmedabad and today traffic plies over it.
But traffic of another type plies over the grave of another poet, possibly the greatest of them all, Mir Taqi Mir. A railway track runs over his grave at Lucknow city station. Uske farogh-e-husn se/ jhamke hai sab mein noor/ Shamm-e haram ho ya ki diya/ Somnath ka (His light permeates through all — the lamp at Kaaba or the Somnath temple.)
Ghalib’s house in Ballimaran remains ignored. Remember his adoration for Varanasi? (Varanasi is like a beautiful woman admiring herself in the mirror of the Ganga, mornings, evenings and afternoons). In fact in this long poem, ‘Lamp in a Temple’, Ghalib describes Varanasi as the ‘Kaaba of Hindustan’, somewhat in the same vein as Iqbal’s description of Lord Rama as the ‘Imam of Hindustan’.
How many more poets must I list? Does anybody remember poetry in praise of Lord Rama by Abdul Rahim Khan-e-Khana? That somewhat ravaged monument at the entrance of Nizamuddin East in New Delhi is his tomb.
And what of Saiyid Ibrahim Raskhan’s unparalleled adoration for that ‘naughty boy from Gokul’ or Salbeg’s lyrics on Jagannath never sung better than by Sikandar Alam. Or Nazir Akbarabadi on Krishna Raas, Mahadev, Guru Nanak. And if you have had enough of the 19th century let me introduce you to modern poets. Krishn ka hun pujari/ Ali ka banda hoon/ Yagana shaan-e-khuda/ Dekh kar raha na Gaya (I am a pujari of Krishna and a devotee of Ali/ I cannot help myself when I see the wonders of God).
Just in case you didn’t know, the longest running serial, Mahabharat, which almost transformed Hinduism into a congregational religion, was written by Masoom Raza Rahi.
And why restrict ourselves to literature? Ustad Fayyaz Khan had a series of compositions but of none was he more proud than: Manmohan Braj ke Rasiya (Colourful Krishna in Braj land). Visit Ustad Alauddin Khan’s house in Maihar and you will be witness to one of the great spectacles of composite culture. The great master said his namaaz five times a day but his music he derived from Saraswati, who adorns all the walls of his house.
When my friend Raghu Rai and I visited Malikarjun Mansoor, Gangubai Hangal and Bhimsen Joshi, prominent on their walls were photographs of their respective gurus, Manjhe Khan and Ustad Abdul Karim Khan. Ibrahim Adil Shah, the King of Bijapur in the 18th century begins his great work on music Kitaab-e-Nauras with Saraswati Vandana. Had Dara Shikoh not translated the Upanishads into Persian, the transmission of Hindu thought to the West would have had to rely on some other route.
I have not even mentioned Khushi Mohammad, the pujari who looks after Goga Merhi temple in Ganganagar and Adam Malik from Baktot village in Pahalgam who discovered the Amarnath shrine. One third of the proceeds from the shrine to this day go to the descendents of Mailk.
But in the 10th year of the destruction of the Babri Masjid, none of this seems relevant. Would Modi, Singhal or Togadia understand any of this? They were not around when I went out and made 50 short films on these themes. Oh the passion with which I undertook the expedition. Except for my cousin Jimmy’s mad pursuit of these themes, I was alone even then. Today I feel different, probably lonely and there is a difference.

My Little Bit of Hindu Re: Urstruly (175)

I know very well to accommodate dissent. Your record on this forum is for all to see and you are in no position to pontificate about accommodating dissent. Your reply was a cop out and it was a cheap shot. When a whiner loses gumption for debate he tries to depart with a cheap shot by misrepresenting the opponent’s argument. That’s precisely what you did.

And as far as your comment to pmishra… The Indian national anthem is not Vande Matram O brilliant one... And even if it was, show me where ‘it spews hatred’ against the minorities! Laughable!!

You have one of the most prominent Indian Muslims singing that song at the top of his friggin voice! Why would he do it if it was spewing hatred against him? Oh wait a minute… I know! A.R. Rahman is not a ‘real’ Muslim!

You are really beginning to amuse me.

My Little Bit of Hindu Re: Ustruly (165)

That’s a cop out and a cheap shot!
I can fully understand why you don’t want to prolong this discussion. We have both been around the block a few times on Chowk but you know fully well that I have at no point agued that Pakistanis are hatemongers or that Indian missiles are harmless.
When I pointed out the paranoia of the Pakistani establishment I was not necessarily vilifying the Pakistani people. And as far as rsridhar goes, he represents neither the Indian people nor me. If he thought that Prithvi was for Prithviraj Chauhan then he’s lost it too.

My Little Bit of Hindu Re: Urstruly (122)

Many thanks for alluding to my modesty; indeed it is the one virtue, which I strive for while seeming to fall short frequently.

Now regarding your post, I am sorry but I have to disagree with you. First and foremost, the ancient Rajput king’s name was Prithviraj Chauhan. Nowhere and never is he referred to as ‘Prithvi’. That would be akin to going around calling a guy named Allahbaksh Gillani, ‘Allah’!
Hey Allah pass me that pencil!
Hey Allah would you like cream and sugar with that?
How weird is that??

Secondly, you are reading way too much into those names and falling into the same trap that the Pakistani establishment fell into. Dhanush, Trishul & Astra are literal words for specific weapons. When they were wielded in Hindu mythology by Hindu divine figures, obviously the Sanskrit words were used to describe them and not Mandarin!
You are right in pointing out the equivalency between Hatf & Unza and the Indian Missile names but by any reasonable analysis Ghauri, Ghaznavi, and Abdali come from way the hell in left field.

It is this kind of circuitous logic and this amazing fetish for conspiracy theories that crystallizes hatred. You make dangerous assumptions about the ‘Hindu psyche’ my friend. You refuse to see these names for what they are. These are names of weapons after all and they were named after ancient weapons. To jump through logical hoops while making very uncharitable assumptions about an entire mass of humanity in order to justify a laughable conspiracy theory betrays a bias of the greatest order on your part.

The point is that the Pakistani establishment itself claims that they chose the invader names in response to India choosing Prithvi. What I am pointing out is that based on the naming pattern of Indian Missiles, if you conclude that Prithvi must mean Prithviraj Chauhan you must be very close to loosing it. And that does not bode well for anyone.

My Little Bit of Hindu Re: SameeJB (30)

You said: ``The naming of Ghauri, Ghaznavi to missiles is very recent and more of a counter to India than honoring Islamic past.``

All the Indian missiles have names of Sanskrit origin which directly connote some attribute of the missile. The series of short range missiles in the Indian armory are called Prithvi, Akash & Sagarika. Prithvi literally means `earth` because it is a `surface to surface` missile. Akash literally means `sky` because it is a `surface to air` missile. Sagarika literally means `oceanic` because it is a `sea launched` missile. Among the other names of Indian missiles are Agni (fire), Dhansuh (bow), Trishul (trident), Nag (cobra) & Astra (weapon).
The fact that some geniuses in the Pakistani Armed Forces selectively picked out Prithvi, identified it as a portion of a name of a Hindu king of yore and were sold hook line and sinker to a conspiracy theory so much so that they named an entire series of missiles after Muslim invaders as a `retort` betrays a paranoia that would almost be funny if not so frightening.

Closet Re: Freesoul,

I do not claim to speak for all avowed heterosexuals. That would mean speaking for 5.9 billion humans. It speaks volumes about your cognitive abilities if you got that impression!

Are you denying that generally speaking male heterosexuals find the prospect of anal sex administered to them fairly forbidding?? If you do you obviously have been living under a rock.

As far as I am concerned this discussion has gone on long enough and you can now crawl back under your rock where all heterosexual males sing kumbayah while poking each other’s pumpkins.

Closet OK, First up...

I guess it was rather presumptuous of me so here`s a clarrification! Norm McDonald is a comedian. The weekend update is a segment on Saturday Night Live. The `poll` was a joke!

Secondly...

Freesoul, knowing fully well that this is a slippery slope let me offer you that there is a significant difference between getting a rim job and having an object of substantial diameter thrust up your Kit and Kibbutle.

Straight men cringe neither at the thought of thier anus being stimulated nor at the prospect of inserting their thingie up another carbon based life form`s back door. They cringe simply at the grim prospect of being at the business end of this rather painful maneuver. And this cringing I reckon they`re very well entitled to.

Closet Re: Brat (66)

Some people think that extreme homophobia exhibited by ostentatiously heterosexual men towards gay men is a violent manifestation of latent homosexuality within themselves. These are typically religious men who are over-ridden with guilt driven into them by their pastors who eloquently tee off on gays every Sunday. Remember the Mathew Shepard case in Laramie Wyoming?

But then there is ‘natural’ disgust too. I think this is quite forgivable considering all that is involved in an act of anal sex. The disgust is not simply due to the thought of two people of the same gender engaging in a sexual act, I don’t know any man who’s ‘disgusted’ with two lipstick lesbians going at each other. It’s the anal sex that is disgusting to some people.

Reminds me of a famous Norm McDonald quip from his days at the helm of weekend update and it went something like this:
“In a recent survey it was found that 85% of Americans have no objection to gay relationships. When reminded however that gay relationships often involve anal penetration, the number dropped sharply to 25%”.

Closet Re: moulabux

Firstly: What is `disingenius`?

Secondly: So you agree that homosexual are as guilty or innocent of rape as are heterosexuals? You make my point for me! You were the one implying that somehow homosexuals are more prone to rape than heterosexuals. Any and every statistic will prove your point duly laughable.

I suggest you first grow an IQ before spouting off since until the time that you cultivate some basic cognitive abilities all that will drool from you will be asinine drivel.

warm regards.

Closet Re: Ras and Ashok

You guys are basically saying that the problems a gay person faces are negligible compared to other issues so we shouldn’t waste our time with this. Well, tell that to a gay person!
What a disingenuous argument to make!
By that token nothing can ever be written about any societal ill because someone will always point out another ill that they perceive to be a greater one!

Re: Moulanabux

The FBI reports that last year in the United States alone there were 90,000 incidents of heterosexual rape.

In a majority of the cases the culprit is out in the open again..

Such incidents are not easily to overlook, and they leave a distinct scar on the minds of those who have to go through all this.

Mr. Moulanabux, do me a favor and write your Chowk posts about certain rules heterosexuals should put forth. To not indulge in such activities with people against their wishes, and to not victimize women.

And I`ve nothing against heterosexuals, as long as they confine their activities to those who consent to it. Be happy in your own little world.

Closet Re: temporal (8)

Glad that my presence brings you joy. In return I can only provide wryness. The warts on the face of Chowk that drove me away remain firmly planted. Now when I look into Chowk’s face I do so infrequently, reluctantly and with a shuddering wince.

Re: freesoul (10)

You are right. It is very much a ‘brown sahib’ tendency to mock other people’s English. You will find however that almost without exception those who partake in this nonsense could do well to use an English 101 at their friendly neighborhood community college. You know… people in glass houses and all that…

Re: All

To me the whole debate about same sex relations basically boils down to a very simple question.
Is homosexual behavior a matter of choice?

If homosexuality is a ‘life style choice’ as the right fringe would have you believe then the whole question of tolerance or compassion does come into play. Once having decided that somebody ‘slipped up’ or ‘made a bad choice’ in being gay, one can then consider whether such a person deserves any compassion or tolerance. We can endlessly debate back and forth about how much compassion or tolerance to accord a person afflicted with such fallibility. Platitudes regarding ‘god’s’ kindness towards ‘sinners’ can also be doled out with a semblance of validity.

But what if the answer to this question were in the negative? What if people were built to be gay? What if it was a genetic and physiological condition? Like being colored, or fat, or curly haired! The whole debate about compassion and tolerance goes out the window then doesn’t it?
Imagine how repulsed a black person would be if a couple of white guys (however well-meaning) sat and talked to each other about how tolerant and compassionate they were of black people and how the balcks needed to be gently guided to whiteness instead of being bashed upside of their heads. Black people don’t need the white people’s permission, tolerance or compassion to be black. They are black. The very same applies to gay people.

Ask someone who’s gay whether this was a ‘choice’ they made and 10 times out of 10 they will tell you that they can remember being gay from the first day of puberty. This means that gays are ‘created’ gay. Unless of course you think the entire gay community is flat lying!

Gay people don’t want special rights, they just want all the rights that straight people have. The rights to marry, adopt, show affection in public, eat burgers, fart, take roller coaster rides, fight in the military, go bungee jumping, dance, pray, joke and play cricket. They are not looking for a positive reaction from you, they are hoping for no reaction at all.


And one more time:
Could people please not use the term ‘homo’? It’s like using the word ‘nigger’ in a serious debate about race relations. Come on!

Closet Dear NJ,

Your `piece` also raises some questions about your writing skills.

And quit employing the derogatory term `homo` please!!

And finally your piece de resistance:
``After exchanging couple of mails and stating my purpose of this dialogue he agreed to make out with me. ``

Do you even know what this means?? lol

The Imperatives of Power Re: Assad #61

Actually it doesn`t at all! In fact it is an argument diametrically opposite to that of the NRA.

Arguing for a UN strike force as the sole and exclusive owner of nuclear force is akin to arguing for the police to be the sole & exclusive owners of guns. Which as you might be aware, is the position of gun control activists not the NRA!

And even if you are referring to the argument that some idiots (not the NRA) make... that since the bad guys will end up with the guns anyway, the good guys should be able to lawfully acquire weapons.... that is still a bad analogy because there are no bad guys and good guys here. Only nations. Nations with equal rights. Nations with their own moral compulsions, nations with their own search of grandeur & nations with their own threat perceptions.

Nobody to this date has made a cogent argument as to why some nations have a greater right to posses these weapons than others.

Well, maybe `manifest destiny`, which is horseshit anyway!

The Imperatives of Power In the sixties, Bhabha and Nehru were convinced that peaceful nuclear devices would be great technological boon. Nehru`s dream of progressive India involved moving mountains and creating monster infrastructural wonders. India kept on pushing for reserving its right to explore peaceful uses of nuclear energy. The US however saw no difference between peaceful explosives and their military application. Pokharan-I was directed precisely at this attitude and the message was clear in the code phrase delivered from ground zero to PMO, ``Buddha has smiled``.

Similarly, in order to understand whose hegemony India was challenging by setting off Pokharan-2 all one has to do is look at the code phrase sent to Vajpai by Kalam, ``The white house has fallen``.

After that monumental (and questionable) insult, if the white house is still trying to get India into the Lincoln bedroom, why bend now?

Its time for some hot lovin relashunships.

The Imperatives of Power Re: T #45, Aakar #41

I completely agree with Aakar on not signing the CTBT. The major powers have always approached the problem as that of `proliferation` and attack all possible avenues of non-proliferation. India has been the most important and powerful opponent of this attitude and has always looked at it as `disarmament`. The NPT, FMPT, CTBT (and its more generic precursor GTBT I believe) have ALWAYS had loopholes for the big five, be it no deadline for total disarmament or the sub-critical tests loophole.

Much as Pakistanis might like to think that India`s nuclear policy is designed to extend the Indian empire to Kabul, Pakistan didn`t even occur as a factor to the Indians until the late seventies. India has always opposed this `nuclear apartheid` morally, ideologically & principally. The Indian policy was founded on Nehruvian ideals on Non-alignment and its refusal to bend under 5 decades of pressure has been remarkable.

Ever since these efforts began, India has been the primary focus of these nations (well actually early in the game China was a major concern but by the time people got organized China had already tested five times and `institutionalized` itself). India has stood its ground and taken the lead in preventing this apartheid from being institutionalized. Why bend now? Especially now since India has acquired way more leverage?

I think India should gut it out for 5-10 years more. By then it might aquire enough influence to change the CTBT drastically.

India has always fought for the ideal situation. Strip all countries of nuclear weapons. Create a nuclear strike force under UN command to prevent blackmail by rogue nations. Its either that or let everybody make their own. Nothing in between!

Three Bombay Poems Dear T,

Looks like:

1. You (and by extension the ISI) know more about Mumbai that I do.

2. You (and by extension the ISI) have been to Mumbai more recently than I.

So I (and by extension the RAW) hereby humbly surrender.

As they say in Bombaiya, ``Tu Shivaji``.

And I concur with your opinion of the city.... the squalor is intimidating and the apparent misery of the sheep like droves far more pervasive than those few and far between for whom the pipe dream bears fruition.