Pakistan Travelogue I Sridhar 259,

for a long time pakistan maintained that there is no infiltration. Now the fenece is up, pakistan is claiming that the low infiltration is because jihadis are gone. The rate of jihadic production might be down, but some estimates put more than 3 million weapon trained jihadis out in pakistan.

I do not tend to focus on specific events, I look at the trends. From a common socio economic beginnings, pakistan has created jihadis supported by hoodood, i see them as two sides of the same coin of jihadic mindset. India has moved in the opposite direction of stopping of the religion based eveils of castism and untouchability.

For me the past 50 years have created an abyss in the value systems of the two countries, pakistan and india have moved so far apart that there can be no coming together.
After 25 years kargill invasion marked the turning point. Even today no one in pakistan admits who ordered the kargill who was involved. Then there is Khan bomb sales, again it is attributed to one man, no support what so ever from any one else. For me these follow a pattern, there jihadic elements at all levels of pakistan, they managed the kargill invasion, they did the sale of the islamic bomb.
What is going to prevent the two elements, kargill and khan to launch a nuclear attack. May the yanks have taken the bomb. Pakistan is a failed state, no body is in charge, now the army is doing paid security service for oil companies, army has the fishing rights for a lake, president is declaring who is not guilty in a rape case.

Pakistan is no more a governed country, and all this talks by the ilks of stuka is detrimental to the world at large.

Pakistan Travelogue I Romair/tahmed/

What I feel indignant about you all is that you are continously coming up with excuses. Honour killing is part of tribal tradition. Hoodood is due to zia. Jihad is due to americans funding it. abdus salam is non person due to bhutto.

The fact is that if you do not support any of those, you should do something to change it. At least write an article in hounr of abdus salam on his birth day, find the roots of hoodood and elaborate on it.
The fact that you will not do anything, and will not accept that all of the above so called bad things are some how linked to your belief system.

tahmed talks about bride killing, yes it is considered bad, it was only a decade ago that it was legislated that if a married woman dies of unnatural causes with in 7 years of marriage, it has to be investigated as murder.
You talk of female feuticide. There are legislation against doctors doing sex identification tests. Then some individuals, not doctors started buying the ultr sound machines and started doing sex identification tests. Now at least in kerala it has been legislated that ultra sound machines should be sold only to doctors.
tahmed the fact is that the educated have to act,do something about the evils. Are you ready. Will you write a small article about abdus salam on his birth day and send it to chowk. Do you really think that chowk will publish it. That is the difference between an indian and paksiatani, homo rectus pakistanicus.

Pakistan Travelogue I Romair,

``Jihad is a religious uprising against occupational forces, which after a certain point, can tend to get a life of its own. Which it did in case of Afghanistan and Kashmir``

No romair no, jihad is a notion of conquering the non muslim countries. The fighters who went to afghanistan, the taliban did not come from afghanistan, the victims of occupation, they came mostly from pakistan and a lot of other countries united by the idea of holy war.

Inherent in jihad is the notion, as contained in TNT, that muslims cannot live with people of ther religions. They have to be ruled by mulsims per the islamic laws. That is why pakistan was created, that is why pakistan changed its name to islami republic, that is why hoodood came into being and sustained by elected govts, military dictators and to cap it off, no one dares to look at the foundations of hoodood by blaming only one man Zia. Take it from me romair, hoodood will not survive with out the support of the educated elites of pakistan, the ruling class.

Pakistan Travelogue I Romair, 236

Here we go again. Honour killing exists because of the pak legal system which requires a person (wali) to make report to the police. Murder is not a crime against the state in pakistan. To make it more explicit, in most countries, if a dead body is found it is up to the police to investigate, there is no need for any person to complain.
Take the case of murder of samia sarwar in the office of asma jahangir. She was killed by the father, she was estranged from her husband. No one complained to the police, no crime was committed.
Pak laws also allow for compensation to the murdered relatives. In pakistan murder is a tort, it is not crime against the state. That is why honour killings are legal, that is why the was no investigation or criminal proceeding when samia srawar was murdered.

Npow romair, please tell me why there was no criminal proceedings in the case of samia sarwar murder. It is not a case of corruption, it is simply the working of the pak legal system.

Pakistan Travelogue I Truth missions

What annoys me in the writings of the ilks of stuka and dost mitters is this notion of indo pak commonality and bon-homie. The fundamental values of the societies are different, the most glaring example is the afghan jihad. When pakistanis ent the most combined with jihadis from almost all of the other countries, there was not even a single muslim from india, the second largest muslim country.

The stukas never accept that jihadi camps, laskers, the honour killings, hoodood etc are part of the same continuum of jihadic mind set. Nothing has changed, and it is only a matter of time that the jihadis infiltrate through the new visa regime. The camps in pakistan are still there, there is no change in the thinking of the elites. That is why the changes to hoodood is important, and that is the only visible indicator of any change in the pak mind set.

I have been called names by the tahmeds and temporals for pointing out this simple fact. If there is any change in the support base for jihadis in pakistan, there will be changes to the hoodood laws, there would be changes to honour killing laws. Nothing has changed, there is no change in the mindest of even the educated.

All that dost mitter and stukas are teling are sinly mis-representations. The under lying jihadic values of the society that culminated in the hoodood and jihadic traing camps are still thriving. The beenas and other so called anti honour killing writers of chowk never point out the fact that why there are similar laws in saudi and other islamic countries. They never mention why the sharia courts have not come out against honour killing legalisation.

Now, to tahmed, call me names, my friend for telling trth.

Pakistan Travelogue I ``I was standing in a street where my ancestors had lived for many years, where my father had been born and where the connection had been terminated abruptly due to forces which the people living here could not even have comprehended. ``

You should have gone to a mosque and listened to the mullah in islamabad. You should have met Asghar escaped after the hijacking of indian aircraft. You should have met the jihadis in any of the madrassas supported by sakat funds. You should have met any laskers.

Stuka, there is a limit, and how hope you will not beat with the sequel.

Pakistan Travelogue I In support of stuka,

The last thing as a true hindu that Stuka wants is to be called a namak haram by the decendants of the rulers of india. Have mercy on him.

Pakistan Travelogue I Stuka,

In the next of this series, tell us about your walk on Dr Abdus salam marg that exists according to YLH, tell us about a recent temple they have built in pakistan, tell us about a recent convert to another religion in pakistan. If you cannot tell us about the social markers why such things will never happen in pakistan.

That reminds me of a ten year old who recently visited kerala from a developed country, and on the first day his remark was that this should be a very safe place, as he saw small children walking in groups to the near by schools, un-accompanied by any adults where in his country he has never seen this happen.

Stuke do you have any observations, did you see anything in pakistan, or ahere you so much chaperoned for your own safety.

Pakistan Travelogue I The pak reality,

There has to be something fundamentally different about pakistan. Having inherited a similar legal and social system, pakistan has created and sustained hoodood. blasphemy and honour killing laws in the last 40 years as part of an evolutionary process. These laws have widespread social support as indicated by its survival through various regimes.

Most pakistanis outside pakistan is in guantanamo bay. These are fundamental social achievements, and the fountainsprings of them should be visible to any astute observer. The above are no dawn reports, they are immutable pak achievements. If after visiting pakistan all that a person has to say is that it is like singapore and the chicken tikka curry at some pak restaurant is good, well it says a lot about the author and nothing about pakistan. So the sequal can only reveal more about Stuka.

Pakistan Travelogue I Stuka...stuka,

Pl...pl spare us the sequel. You were carried arround in a bubble by the chowkies. Think of this. You have visited a country that has a vast training facility which sent thousand of jihadis to all parts of the world. There is a sytem of fund collections in shops to support this activity. There are posters every where asking for jihadis. There are speeches in even the most elite mosques urging jihad. There are more armoured mercs in pakistan than any other country because of the potential for violence. Poverty is incresing, illiteracy is high. There could be hardly be any women in the streets. It is sad that you found pakistan similar to singapore.
This article has undermined your integrity.

Country Visa, City Visa Identity of indian muslims.

Indian muslims have said it loud and clear, they have nothing to do with jihadic pakistan. There is no indian muslim caught in afghanistan, there is no one in guantanamo bay while it has muslims from all over the world. Worlds secand largest muslim country india, did not send even a single muslim to be trained in pakistan to be sent to afghanistan.

No Beena, no pakistani will dare to admit this reality, there is no india muslim, no indian, and they do do not believe in pak values. Pakistanis have been caught in every part of the world, the latest is in australia, a pak medical student trained with alquida. It is time that indian fenced all of pak border and stopped letting any into india. How about that pak actress who went to bombay, she is to be prosecuted under blasphemy lasws, even the minister of pakistan and the mullahs had a lot to say about her. Beens, do you dare to arite anything about pak reaction about this incident. Pathetic is the only word for this type of trash

Country Visa, City Visa It is rather pathetic that Beena talks about the visa restrictions. Never a word has any one heard about a stupid kerala woman called Divya who married a pakistani, changed her religion, and pakistanis will not give visa for her to stay. Beena, tell the world can any one change from muslim to another religion in pakistan,. Tell the world Bina, whether any one can build a temple or a church in pakistan now.

The paki loving dost mitters and the stukas never dare to address these fundamental values that divide india and pakistan.

Country Visa, City Visa here is yet another non-sense. Already hundreds of pakistanis allowed to enter india in the name of cricket have vanished into thin air. They are sure to reemerge as Mullah akhtar, who got released after the hijacking. This liberalisation of visits is a one way trafic, not many indians want to visit pakistan, there are no relatives of hindus left there.
The laskers are still going strong. No indian of the ilk of stuka dares to admit that if oakistan is concerned about human rights in kashmir why there is no support for some kinf kashmir liberation organisation, whay all of the pak organisation the so called supporters of kashmiris are called laskers, jaish mohammed etc. It iss pathetic that the dost mitters and stukas who visited pakistan never dared to ask this question to the pakistansi, or to investigate this.

The fact is that pakistan is a jihadic country, slowly and steadily, the hoodood and blasphemy las are set in stone in pakistan, and the vision of laskers is the same for kashmir. There will always be killings across jihadic frontiers, fencing of pak and bangla borders is the right step. One should follow the US example and introduce further restrictions. I do hope that the next attack on parliment will end all this crap about pakistanis coming to india.
It si time that the indians accept the reality, travel is one way, laskers coming to india.

Sui Incident: A PR Disaster subedar,

That is precisely what I am talking about, a little bit parethetical. There is no law in pakistan, as you say, if a woman is raped the military will deal with it. There is no public legal process, the military will deal with it. This is unique to pakistan, in every other country, there is a legal process, carried out by the law enforcrmrnt agencies.

I knew one pakistani, his relative was shot dead by a major in pak army, no police will even register a case.

What I get annoyed by the ilks of temporal is that he pretends and strut around like a moderate educated pakistani, but when I point out that sui rape is not a PR disater, it is an exposure of the fundamental lawlessness of pak society he personally attacks me.

This is no different from the general approach of the educated. It is the hard core laskers who are attacking the kashmiris, they are jihadists who want to talibanise kashmir, introduce hoododd in kashmir, but the temporals of pakistan, struggle in kashmir is a human rights issue. They cover the jihadis with the human rights glow.

By attacking me, temporal supports the author and asserts that sui rape is a PR issue, not an issue of rotting core of pak society.

Sui Incident: A PR Disaster yogiraj,

A woman is raped in Sui, no one is arrested, the president of the country says that the military is not invoved, he also says that the culprit should be hung. A very educated person, the author of this article says that the events point to a PR failure for the govt. All of the other pakistanis, like temporal agrees with this as indicated by his silence.

I point to this retrograde mindset that prevents any improvement in pak society. Well I have no hate, I am indignant. To me education means something, it means an ability to see through the sharade, a kind of a commitment to be objective, and to point out this fundamental meaning of education to the elites of pakistan.

May be you also agree that the issue in pakistan is one of PR failure, not that of the rule of law. Well you also belong to the species, homo erectus pakistanicus. Be temporals guest.

Sui Incident: A PR Disaster Riffat,

You have nailed it on the head, for you the educated pakistani, Sui rape is a Pr disaster, reaffirming the belief that all that pakistan needs is better PR. This is the real tragedy of pakistan, the outcome of the k for kafir education. There is indo-israeli conspiracy in this, there is no PR issue in this, there is only truth.
IN pakistan rape is legal under the jirga system. Riffat, if you have any corrage of conviction, write on chowk why the sharia court has not struck down the honour killing laws, why killing of a woman is not a crime against the state. Police is bound to act only when the ``wali`` the owner of the woman complains. The owners of the women are father till she is married and husband after she is married and it is this legal system of pakistan that supports honour killing. tell the world that the only crime against the state in pakistan is blasphemy.

Riffat learn to tell the truth, there is PR distater in pakistan, it is only that the truth is finally coming out, despite the efforts of YLH, tahmed and temporal to hide it by attacking the meassenger.