Race to the Finish HP:

You read selectively then. At least Masadi admits that there are Pakistanis who are racists. He blames it on the influence of the white man. . . Naqshbandi is one of us is he not, and he participated in a racist joke on this very thread. Naqshbandi has said racist things on other occasions which he will most likely deny vehemently. Racists do not think they are being racist, or if they aren't racist they are just plain ignorant. . .

Race to the Finish rf786 (131)

You probably know more about the Prophet PBUH and his followers than I do so I'm not certain why you're asking me that question. I was just responding to what I know about some Pakistani Christian males, being of the community myself. It's not like Harimau was genuinely interested anyway.

If you have to ask why the Prophet and his followers "adopted" a Jewish custom, or tradition, then you might also ask why Musa and Daoud and Issa are of the book. They're all Jewish too.

Actually, Christian males do not have to be circumcised. . . according to the New Testament, but some still observe certain things from the Old. . .

Race to the Finish okay, class, one of your future missions, should you choose to accept it, is to read Michael Eric Dyson's "April 4th 1968", (for the unaware: the title is the date Martin Luther King Jr. was murdered) and then we can talk about it. . . someday.

On April 4, 1968, at 6:01 PM, while he was standing on a balcony at a Memphis hotel, Martin Luther King, Jr. was shot and fatally wounded. Only hours earlier King--the prophet for racial and economic justice in America--ended his final speech with the words, "I may not get there with you, but I want you to know tonight, that we as a people will get to the Promised Land."

Acclaimed public intellectual and best-selling author Michael Eric Dyson uses the fortieth anniversary of King's assassination as the occasion for a provocative and fresh examination of how King fought, and faced, his own death, and we should use his death and legacy. Dyson also uses this landmark anniversary as the starting point for a comprehensive reevaluation of the fate of Black America over the four decades that followed King's death. Dyson ambitiously investigates the ways in which African-Americans have in fact made it to the Promised Land of which King spoke, while shining a bright light on the ways in which the nation has faltered in the quest for racial justice. He also probes the virtues and flaws of charismatic black leadership that has followed in King's wake, from Jesse Jackson to Barack Obama.

Always engaging and inspiring, April 4, 1968 celebrates the prophetic leadership of Dr. King, and challenges America to renew its commitment to his deeply moral vision.

have a good day!

Race to the Finish harimau #80

On the other hand, Yousuf Yohanna embraced The True Faith.

Question here: did Yousuf Yohanna have to be circumcised? For how long couldn't he play cricket afterwards? How about have sex? Inquiring minds want to know.

This may come as a shock to you, or perhaps not, but Christian males in Pakistan do get circumsised. So it's very possible that Yousaf was circumsised looooong before his conversion to Islam. And if that's the case, the other questions don't apply.

I may regret having answered this question in seriousness.

Race to the Finish Madani sahib, with all due respect, the Brits popularized "Paki" long before arjun did. The difference being some Brits used it as a slur towards all desis, whereas here some Indians use it towards more Pakistanis than less.

The difference not being in the quality of the word itself, but the quantity of those it is used against. . .

Race to the Finish Kul: what's wrong with reading Reader's Digest, or drinking Ovaltine? Didn't you like Ovaltine as a nanna munna?! Oh, the chocolate powder in that reddish (orangish?) can. My mommy tells me the Ovaltine in the purana desh was much better than the one they sell here.

And what's wrong with nerds? Gosh, I hope our paths never cross! (self-proclaimed nerd)

Race to the Finish Amrika, or Amreeka is how one says America in more than one language, and anyone can use it anywhere so all I have to say about copyright is, get over it! Thank you!

Kul: I know. What we want to say, and what actually is said. . . meri expectations ko maaro goli. They're rather insignificant.

arjun: hmmmmm okay. *pondering*

Race to the Finish Why must some of you always bring the "paki muslim" thing into everything. Good grief! Stop calling Pakistanis "inbred retards" and talking about classless vs. classist, there is no shame in being a cab driver, not in Amreeka at least, so those of you who use being a cab driver as an insult are elitists. Chew on that one.

Kulharee, I decided I like your previous articles better than this one. This one just has too many holes. It seems that everyone as usual will interpret this differently, focus on one thing and go with that. The confabulation of sports, China, the history of African-Amreekans, who is more intelligent. I think I get what you are trying to say here, but I really have a problem with looking at how a group of people progresses through history by looking at its athletes, and that is partly what you are doing here. Was it Michael Jordan, or Charles Barkley who said that he did not want to be a role model or something to that effect?

The problem with judging African-Americans by looking at the excellence and progress of their athletes for me is that is is a double-edged sword in that negative stereotypes arise. Why should a six foot nine black man be expected to have played basketball at least once in his life, when much of what occupied his life is history, literature and languages? Anyway, I am digressing here.

I think that both you and Masadi are right. Yes, African-Americans have made strides, but how many of them are actually seen as first-class citizens (and how many see themselves as that) is still open for debate.

You are talking about more than athletes, and the army, and musicians, many who have contributed to the civil rights movement, but I don't know, perhaps it was the examples that bothered me. Thanks for the article.

On not-so-petty grievances:

Masadi: Acknowledged and appreciated that you have never told me personally to go eff myself. But you are wrong about me taking sides. I have spoken up for you when hamidm etcetera have wanted you "off the air". I think you make some great points, and I will continue to say that. I am not willing to take your word as gospel on certain things though. And if you, young man, cannot handle sarcasm, and teasing from me, tau iss maiN meri ghalti nahiN. :)

Race to the Finish I think one of the reasons I am having trouble with this article is that I agree with a bit of what HP says in his post or at least the idea behind what he is saying. The issue of race relations in Amreeka is much more complex than to say that so-and-so has made it, and give statistics. There are other reasons why not only young Black men, but also brown men, make it in the army. I do not see the military establishment as being a unifying factor.

And I do not see this society striving towards a classless society, as wunderbaar as that would be. We will destroy ourselves before we become classless here. That may sound utterly cynical, but that is how I see it.

Race to the Finish HP (#2)

I think you're being just a little unfair aren't you? If you think calling asadi an "enfant terrible" (the bad boy crying US elite) is abuse while defending or justifying the filthy abuse of some choice people, hum tau kuchh keh bhi nahin sakte :) If you think I defend or justify what arjun says, you are mistaken.

and I've defended asadi on more than a few occasions. Perhaps you don't read those posts. Shayad jab aap hosh se keh deN ke phir hosh maiN aaye, tau ye bhi zahir ho jayega. Just because I do not agree with much of what he says does not constitute abuse. You probably do not mind him telling us to go fuck ourselves when we disagree. So you're trying to point out that I defend an annoying repetitive Indian over an annoying repetitive Pakistani because. . . ?????

Race to the Finish i imagine the enfant terrible bellowing about the US elite will be making his thoughts known at any point now. I have to read this when it is not past midnight, and I am hopefully more awake to comment on it.

Little Pakistan: Brooklyn’s Coney Island Avenue The Pakistanis that have succeeded in the system of oppression by cloning themselves after the white man are not "successful" in my opinion and there is nothing those other Pakistanis that are segregated can do to be like them because the white man will never level the playing field, he will allow only those that think like him and yet never challenge their subordiation or faithfulness to the system. The BEST thing for those Pakistanis to do is hook up with other segregated and oppressed folk, the AAs, the NAs, the MAs, and the women folk and give the system hell and keep giving it hell until the oppressive rule of the white elite and his system based on injustice and mythology collapses- though the gains will be incremental. Next, they should shun their current power structure with the mullah and his hidden hands behind them, start in their own community like Elijah M did with the Black Muslims and then spillover to the other oppressed from there. Simple in principle but difficult to achieve because the white man's control and enslavement mechanism will kick in the moment they see the community developing consciousness and rejecting their slave status in that society......

Oh man, where do I begin with this. . .

Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds. When you can do that, there is no one who can enslave you, not even the big bad white man. I have heard countless stories of us non-white immigrants who as Kulharee's wife's grandfather worked their asses off to achieve what they did. There are things in place in this society which do help us achieve what we want to, and those things exist because they were fought for, by blacks and whites and Asians and Native Americans, among others. I am truly sick and tired of reading how so many of us have cloned the white man, and how we are poor enslaved victims. Amreeka certainly does not make things easy for us, but as Kulharee said, our success depends on what we as immigrants are willing to do to make things work for us, and our families.

There are a lot of Pakistanis who will not seek solidarity with NA's, AA's, among other groups. In order to do that, they would have to escape the insularity they wrap themselves around in, and embrace these communities. It would be nice if more and more of us could form these links, but what this insularity has to do with the control of the white man is beyond me. . .

Little Pakistan: Brooklyn’s Coney Island Avenue kulharee,

good article!

Little Pakistan: Brooklyn’s Coney Island Avenue akcheema:

I was going to respond to your comment on arjun but he took care of it himself.

but for him it's not just tahir and zeemax who are "pakis". . . "pakis" in his eyes are those who do not speak up against islamic extremism. "pakis" are those who support "militants" in kashmir. "pakis" is more of a monolith, not just one or two people. so-called sympathizers of what he rallies against are "pakis."

it isn't just one or two people. . . it is an idea, an attitude. and it doesn't make him a hindutva as some of us like to call him. it makes him an idiot. . . .

(to be continued. . . . maybe :D)

adios

Little Pakistan: Brooklyn’s Coney Island Avenue Kulharee,

I haven't read the article yet, but I'm still reeling from arjun's beginning a post with "with all due respect". My goodness, how often does he say that with regard to us "pakis." Please make sure you give him a good clean argument! :)

The Importance of Natural Selection nkg:

do you always like talking to yourself when you write a post? every once in a while is fine, but this constant asking and answering your own question virtually aloud requires an even more serious response that is not available here at chowk.

please seek help immediately. this asylum is already overcrowded thank you.