The Second Wave Thanks for submitting this thorough piece on Pakistan`s upcoming filmmakers.
Is anyone of them looking into making a documentary on the rise of the Farhat Hashmi phenomena.

Bulleh Shah Umair,

This is a great article! Thanks a ton!

`Qambar`

Living in Fear #2 Hellhound

I don`t see how you came to your conclusion wrt ``These killings are not part of any concerted efforts by Sunnis to instill fear of their god in Shias... It is not like every Sunni wakes up in the morning with a mission to kill a shia as part of his or her things to do....)

Batool has very correctly highlighting the dread and emotional trauma that Shias in Pakistan have had to go through. There is no sweeping indictment of the majority Sunni muslims.

However, you contradict your self when stating that these killings are not part of any concerted efforts. The evidence clearly points to very powerful, well-funded and well organized groups, which enjoy tremendous priveliges in Pakistan. Remember Azam Tariq, who in a BBC interview in 1995 claimed that Pakistan should be rid of Shias. Ofcourse, in 2003 he amended it to a 10-15 year jail sentence ``Rather than killing Shiites, [Maulana Azam Tariqh M.P] said, they ``should merely be declared non-Muslims``and jailed for 10 or 15 years.`` And his organization, along with its parent and sister organizations (the various Jaishs, Harkats, Sipahs, Lashkars) still enjoys great power and support. Even the spineless local media had to admit that it was Jaish that was responsible for the December bombings of Musharaf. While Masood Azhar was under house arrest in 2003, he was still roaming around freely all over Pakistan, and was even lecturing Army Jawans at public gatherings. Azam Tariq was allowed to run for the 2002 elections despite the fact that he was named as a suspect in over 2 dozen murder cases!

Batool`s emotions are shared by many Shias and Sunni friends and relatives and hence it is disappointing when you state ``It is a shame that Chowk staff is less than judicious in selectiing the articles for publication. By publishing articles such as this, which is primarily driven by one person`s emotions, gives such opinion a credence which is not ncessarily warranted.``

News and views cannot always be santized and loaded with euphemisms in order to make them more palatable. And I don`t think that Batool`s piece is simply driven by emotion; on the contrary, it is meant to evoke some emotion that would seek to address this issue in a constructive manner. And finally, not everyone can count on divine inspiration before taking pen to paper.

#3 veerish

Its not the majority that is against the existence of Shias, Ahmediyyas, Hindus, Christains.
This carnage is due to 25 years of the State flirting with extremism and Jihad as local and foreign policy substitutes. The ``chickens have come home to roost`` and the Pakistani religious and sectarian minorities are paying the price for the State`s love affair with the ``mujhahideen`` (along with the Saudis and the CIA ) in the 80`s, followed by the Taliban, Jaish and Harkats in the 90`s up to present. So far Mush has said all the right things about ``Enlightened Moderation`` but has done NOTHING to judiciously try and sentence (let alone catch) most terrorists; he has done NOTHING to role back the Draconian Hudood and Blasphemy laws , nor has he done anything to amend the textbooks that teach distorted values and history. Far from taking a stand, he and most of his ministers have caved into every demand made by the ``religious lobby`` (his education minister proclaims herself as a ``Fundementalist`` while his religious minister (the son of Zia-ul-Haq, who supervised and oversaw most of this mess) openly admits to dumping in the trash, an independant report which highlights the funding and role of many madresses in creating and supporting extremism. Meanwhile high ranking Sunni leaders, intellectuals and security officers have also been killed or threatened whenever they have taken a stance against Pakistani religious lobbies.

Karachi a Pawn The chickens have come home to roost. The militant mercaneries nursed by the Pak Army during the last 25 years in the fine art of killing Communists, Americans, Hindus, Christains, Shias, Ahmadis and suppressing women, have turned on their own handlers. The majority of Pakistanis can go blue in the face blaming India, Israel and the US for the carnage in Karachi; no one (and I suspect at a subcounscious level, even themselves) takes this b- - - seriously anymore.

It is actually comic to hear some of my countrymen reiterate that these ``mysterious`` terrorists are not muslims and are against Pakistan. Fine, by that logic, why not label all the ``Islamic`` parties as Non-Muslims and mete out to them their own prescribed punishment for ``infidels``. If local politicians and activists can be labelled as traitors and treasonors whenever they have the temerity to critisize the Army or make a critical statement wrt Pakistan whilst visiting India, how should those groups and individuals be treated who are killing doctors and worshipers, who have bombed and killed foreign technocrats and who belch on Zakat and heroin funds without ever having to worry about an honest day`s work. If, as the arguement (pathetic excuse would be more applicable) goes, that these actions are being done at the behest of foreign countries, then shouldn`t the Jihadis be treated as traitors and treasonors as well. If politicians can be jailed for articulating an anti-military view, what about these useless souless creeps and their organization, who are committing the large scale murder of innocent Pakistanis?

Karachi Blast - The Untold Story I share your pain and loss. My cousin lost a relative in yesterday`s bomb blast. However, we cannot sink to the blood thirsty levels of misogynist hatemongers. If they spend even an iota of the time used in creating hatred against us constructively, the world might not be such a bad place. However, by their sickening actions, they have exposed themselves all over the world. Be it their warped ideas of ``Jihad`` or their cowardly targetting of minorities in Pakistan, they have to realize that their Saudi pimps (I take that back, one should not offend pimps) are under pressure to clean up thier act and the janitorial organization that handles them (the ISI) is also being forced to sing a different tune.

You and I and all those who truly sympathize with the scores of murdered Pakistani Shia muslims will weep tears of pain, bitterness and anger. Atleast now we will not have to hear too many pathetic justifications and sick excuses like ``RAW did it``. After exhausting that bullshit line since the December attacks on Musharaff, most Pakistanis have had to admit these monsters are ISI trained and bred on Zakat, Heroin and Saudi funds.

Peaceful Strokes The pressure to win is greater on India and this series represents the best opportunity in years, nay decades. During the 90`s, with Wasim and Waqar at their peak, Pakistan was always in the top 3 in world cricket. Had there been greater team unity and fewer scandals, the results would have been even better. However, the 2002 series against Australia clearly highlighted the fragile nature of Pakistan`s aging, disunited and technically-deficient team. They have improved since then, but are ill-equipped to match India`s batting powerhouse.

Also, its been nearly 2 decades since India last won an overseas series. Pakistan had an overseas series victory just 2 months ago in NZ. It has consistently won tests and series in India, while the latter has not won a single test in Pakistan. India did far better in Australia than any other touring team in the last 4-5 years. While Warne and McGrath were absent and Gillispie and Lee did not play the full series and there were no tests in Perth, India performed well and has 5 batsmen who can turn the fortunes of a match.

India will probably win 1 test match and chalk its first series victory in nearly 2 decades, with Pakistan`s batsmen committing hara kiri outside the off stump. Nehra will be instrumental in this victory, and his rediscovered rhythum will expose Pakistan`s weakness in the face of displinced medium paced bowling. Saqlain is clearly not in the right frame of mind and barring Shoab, no other bowler including Sami, poses a significant threat. The BJP could not have chosen a better time to renew cricketing ties with Pakistan.

As for Pakistan, a test series loss at home (more the norm in the last 5 years) will be a minor cost and a passing matter, as opposed to enhancing the potential for peace with India. Its politicians and institutions of power, despite their infinite mischief, have not jingoistically linked national glory to a game of cricket. The U-19 team has done quite well and might just provide the Pakistan senior team with the players to repeat their glory days of the 90`s in the next 2-3 years.

Ashura: Atonement, Mourning and Return Naqshbandi,

My interacts on this article had started with stressing the universality of Imam Hussain`s sacrifice; how it has impressed both Muslims and Non-Muslims, especially Hindus, who have participated actively in Azadari rituals and even composed Marsiyas. For you, it has just been an opportunity to diss on Shiites using selective and at times suspect literature.In your case, whatever happened to one of the prominent features of Sufism; i.e., acceptance. I actually want to thank you because in all your tirades against the Shias, you have made our case easier. Now others get a chance to see the hate and deluded literature that is reserved for Shias.

Btw, many of your posts were strikingly similar to the content seen on sites like that of Sipah sahaba, who you claim to hate. You keep stressing that the Shias deserted prominent religious personalities some 1300-1400 years ago. So as per your logic, group A (the 100 million + Shias today) are responsible for the actions of Group B (the deserters who died over 1300 years ago and to which Group A has little if any connection) Wow. LOL.

You talk of your Sufi background. Isn`t that about spirituality, love, acceptance. However your language towards Shias is full of hatred, abuse and contempt. You talk of lying and selectively using truth, without realizing the irony of your statements in that regard. For you, Khomeinism represents Shiite Islam; for many Shiites, he just represents a dead conservative political leader who had his share of controversies. Incidently, this dead ``rafzi`` had a lot in common with you, in that he was a big follower of sufism (Irfan as it is referred to in Persian) and even composed some poetry inspired by Rumi.

The contradictions just keep getting worse. You use Ibn Tayimmah as one of your sources to prove that Shias are unbelievers. Isn`t he the medieval Islamic scholar that most influenced the founder of Wahabism, Ibn-e-Wahab, a sect that you claim to hate.

I guess hate is really the driving force for you. Anything goes, as long as it assists you in making a point. I have tremendous regard for Khwaja Moinuddin Chishti, Shah Abdul Latif Bhittai and Lal Shahbaaz Qalander. However, your claim that they were all Sunnis is most interesting. Weren`t they more about Universality instead of narrow sectarian denominations ? I suppose you have access to a time machine that we others at chowk do not. Therefore your version has to be the Truth. As for us Shias, we might as well be doomed and done for. After all, we should all be Judged and punished collectively, based on what some of us MIGHT have done in some parallel universe created by the likes of you. That might give you the chance to finally show us all some love. Oops, I forgot, us who are not rafizis!

Ashura: Atonement, Mourning and Return To Naqshbandi: Wow, you really do have a monopoly on the truth. You accuse Shias of selective interpretation and using lies to forward their claims. A look at your most recent post #73 displays the irony of your statements. Don`t you think you are being selective in your analysis by making Khomeini the sole representative of Shias. He was political leader who is dead. Just like if Shias started looking at Sunnis being solely representated by Azam Tariq and Maulana Ashraf Thanvi. As for your constant refrain of Shias being deserters/rafizis, accursed and liars; well they are more revelatory of your motivations, than the entire casus belli that you have pieced together as your vitriolic against the Shias. If Shias try to counter anti-Shia propaganda, its selective quotation and lies. However, when they are abused and condemned through these very means, its analysis. Wow, you give new meaning to a Catch 22 situation.

People like Bhittai and myself were touched that Kyla empathized with the massacre of Shias in Pakistan and Iraq. We made our point of view. However, judging by comments made by you and tahmed32, I think its like talking to a brick wall. I repeat what I said earlier; why waste everybody`s time by targeting minority sects and in turn waste their time by constantly having to defend their beliefs. Why not utilize that time to really see why it is that you are so insecure about your own beliefs that any mention of Shias (excluding the Zaydi sect) triggers such a pathological response. I have no doubt that you will come up with an even more sophisticated response to this post. But you are missing the point.
Your attitude of condemnation against the Shias (excluding Zaydis) makes one despondent of further constructive dialogue.

To tahmed32: Since you mention the Quran, I don`t remember EVER having posited the references pertaining to my ``favourite`` sect as being mutually exclusive from the Quran.
My references were simply provided to enhance the understanding of Shiite beliefs; beliefs which are based on the Quran. In post #76, Bhittai has continued with his concilatory, tolerant and inclusive approach. However, since you and Naqshbandi have set yourselves up as supreme judges to condemn those who don`t agree with you, I really cannot see how you all can look beyond yourselves.

Ashura: Atonement, Mourning and Return It is disappointing to read the insensitive remarks of Naqshbandi (he who knows the truth), tahmed32 and r.a.junjua. But then again it is not surprising. Shiites have had to contend with vicious propaganda and scurrilous lies since quite some time. Look up the Sipah Sahaba or any of the Pro-Taliban and Jihadi website. Such websites speak volumes about those who subscribe to their views.
For those who are interested in learning more about this and related issues can visit the following websites to learn what the Shias have to say for their own beliefs, instead of relying solely on prejudicial views. The article by Annemarie Schimmel on Karbala is truly beautiful.

http://www.al-islam.org/history/history/br1.html

(The History and Philosophy of Aza of Imam Husayn (a) )

http://www.al-islam.org/al-serat/default.asp?url=Karbala-Schimmel.htm

(Karbala and the Imam Husayn in Persian and Indo-Muslim literature :Annemarie Schimmel
Harvard University)

http://www.karbala-najaf.org/shiaism/shiaism.html

(Link for Origins and Early Development of Shia Islam)

http://www.al-islam.org/short/martyrdom/index.htm

(Imam Hussain and his Martyrdom)

http://www.al-islam.org/al-tawhid/default.asp?url=paradigm-akhtar.htm

(Karbala`, an Enduring Paradigm of Islamic Revivalism)

http://www.al-islam.org/al-serat/default.asp?url=leader.htm

(Imam Husayn`s Concepts of Religion and Leadership: S.H.M Jafri )

http://www.al-islam.org/peshawar/index.html

(Peshawar Nights; A Work on Contemporary Polemics especially for Naqshbandi

http://www.al-islam.org/underattack/5.htm

The Myths relating to Abdullah Bin Saba

To tahmed32: you keep harping about the problem of sectarianism, without empathizing with the pain of the recent bloodbath of Shias in Iraq and Pakistan. For you, the narrative of differing groups is nonsense. Why not study the issue in depth instead of contemptously washing your hands of it. That is if you truly view it is a problem.

Naqshbandi: the fact that you think of Shias as ``rafizis`` is revealing. If you really oppose the cowardly and brutal killings of the shias in Pakistan and Iraq, then please make a greater effort in objectively understanding history. Regarding your incendiary post #63,

``There have been attempts by certain writers to absolve the Shî‘ah from the crime of deserting Husayn. Some find an excuse for them in Ibn Ziyâd’s blockade of Kûfah. S. H. M. ............ It was rather their own treacherousness and fickleness that led them to abandon Sayyidunâ Husayn. This can be clearly seen in the manner they deserted Muslim ibn ‘Aqîl. ``

I would like to add that Shia webeites have come up with a suitable rejoinder, which I would like to draw to your attention. I am pasting the conclusion. This link addresses the trite and oft-repeated slurs made against Shias from time to time. For a complete text, please visit the following link. Each of the chapters deals in detail with Naqshbandi`s polemics in post #63.

http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/who_killed_imam_hussain/en/chap3.php

Just a thought before we go there. Wouldn`t it better if people like Naqshbandi and Sipah-e-Sahaba spent more time in examining their own beliefs, instead of indulging in finding fault with Shite beliefs. It would all save us a lot of time and energy.

``These are the 4 categories of Shi’a that existed at that time, so which group shed the blood of Imam Husayn (as)? Was it just one group, or did all of these Shi’a collude collectively?
History tells us that two groups of people played a role in Imam Husayn (as) killing, they were:

Those that vocally supported Yazeed and hence deemed his Khalifa to be legitimate.

Those that physically supported Yazeed by fighting in his army against Imam Husayn (as).``

For greater details, please visit the following link(s)

http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/who_killed_imam_hussain/en/chap3.php

Ashura: Atonement, Mourning and Return #7 by tahmed32 on March 2, 2004 10:22pm PT
It was a power struggle for the throne. Nothing to do with religion. That is all there is to this shia-sunni nonsense

---

This is not the first time I have heard this overly-simplistic, insecure arguement. I suppose Dickens puts it best when he states that

``If Hussain fought to quench his worldly desires, then I do not understand why his sisters, wives and children accompanied him. It stands to reason therefore that he sacrificed purely for Islam.``

Allama Iqbal also puts this sacrifice in its right perspective.

``Imam Husayn uprooted despotism forever till the Day of Resurrection. He watered the dry garden of freedom with the surging wave of his blood, and indeed he awakened the sleeping Muslim nation. If Imam Husayn had aimed at acquiring a worldly empire, he would not have traveled the way he did (from Medina to Karbala). Husayn weltered in blood and dust for the sake of truth. Verily he, therefore, became the bed-rock (foundation) of the Muslim creed; la ilaha illa Allah (There is no god but Allah).

Ronay wala hoon Shaheed-e-Kerbala key gham men main,
Kya durey maqsad na dengey Saqiye Kausar mujhey

I am one who weeps at the plight of the Martyr of Kerbala
Won`t the reward be given to me by the Keeper of Kauser Allama Iqbal in his Baqiyat (in Urdu)``


As per both Muslim and non-muslim sources, Imam Hussain already knew that his support in Kufa had been quelled. His emisary, Muslim Bin Aqeel had already been killed by Yazid`s governor. If it was just a power struggle, then Imam Hussain would have bided his time and brought the favour of the power brokers of his time. He could have promised them money and power and as regards martial prowess, he was after all the son of Ali. He would have ensured that he had some material power before encamping at Karbala, with a few trusted companions and family members.

I suppose people will constantly try to deflect attention from this event. Karbala provides not only muslims but all of humanity with an ideal example of a principled stance against oppression, a complete liberation theology of you may. Hindus, Christains and Atheists amongst others have admired Karbala. If some muslims inspired by Prof. Israr Ahmad and the late Azam Tariq want to constantly detract from this event, then I for one, can see where they are coming from. Karbala exposed the sham of the Ummayads misusing religion to forward their imperial intentions. They have had their opologists in every age. And every Ashura is a reminder that makes them very uncomfortable.

Ashura: Atonement, Mourning and Return Kyla,

Thank you for writing your piece. It was thought provoking and sensitive. Bhittai has a valid point wrt the hadith.

The universality of Imam Hussain cannot be emphasized enough. Dickens, Gibbons, Gandhi, Premchand, Iqbal , Chishti amongst others acknowledged his impact on what it takes to make a stand. Gandhi as a symbolic gesture to that Supreme sacrifice, took 72 people in his Salt March (protesting British Colonialism).

As per some reports, Imam Hussain`s band included one Hindu pundit (Hussaini brahmins also actively commemorate Ashura in India) As per all accounts, his band also included a Christain, Wahab-e-Kalbi.

Hussain and his sister Zainab left Humanity with the best example of taking a PRINCPLED stand against oppression.

Your piece was a balm to a fresh wound.

Chiragh e Sehri Temporal,

That was a touching piece. We all have a Chiragh or inhabit him in our lives.

The Truth About Karachi Re: #69 ferozK

Feroz,

Your piece was most interesting and informative and corraborated most of the independant and objective analysis on the Taliban phenomena.

Keep it up

The Truth About Karachi Bina,

I disagree with you when you state that ``Karachi epitomizes the global fight between good and evil. The criminal elements of society are well matched by citizens who hold honesty, decency and integrity dear to their hearts, who fight hard to help those crippled by poverty and corruption, no matter what their social status, who try every day to turn Jinnah`s vision of a thriving Muslim nation into a reality.``

The majority of the TIMES article`s conclusion were spot on. The divide between the have and the have-nots in Karachi is more stark than probably any other place on this globe. Neither are the criminal elements ``well matched`` by well meaning citizens like Edhi, J Yousuf or Ardy. The latter are grossly outnumbered. For the elites, the rest of the city exists only to be ``discovered`` for its culinary and entertainment ``delights``.
The empathy for the ills plaguing it are minimal and in this, all Karachians of means and education, including myself, are culpable. The ``fight`` that you mention is hardly even a splutter. The sooner we realize that, the better. Karachi WAS a hip, cosmopolitan city 30 years ago. Now its a battleground where enthno-facists, Al-Qaeeda lovers and other murderers and extortionists terrorize the rest of the helpless citizenry, where every institution is in shambles and were corruption is the order of the day. Most of the parks have been expropriated by the construction mafia or Taliban producing mosques/madrasses (the Sipah Sahaba mosque on main Tariq Road, down the road from Shalimar Center being a prime example).

The Binori town mosque near Hanafia Burgers in Newton is a hub for extremist activity. A little over a decade ago, people from all sects used to visit this mosque to offer their prayers. Recently, things have changed. This was the same mosque where Masood Azhar gave his first speech after being released by the Indian authorities in the wake of the Air India Hijacking in 2000. Between 60-80 doctors have been gunned down in Karachi in the last 5-7 years. The over-whelming majority of them happened to be Shiite Muslims. Atleast 3 of them (Dr. Ishrat Hussain, Dr. Ale Haidar, Dr. Abbas Mohatisham) were Sunni Muslims but were killed because of their ``Shitte-sounding`` names. Other prominent Shitte doctors were hounded out because the State simply didn`t care to offer them any protection. The most tragic thing was the muted protest that ensued in the wake of this loss.

How can anyone in their right minds argue that there is an even struggle going on Karachi.
It is precisely this lack of accepting responsibility that has gotten us into this mess.
Bina, if you read this, please realize that the Times article offers us a mirror to look at how blind we have become of the horrors that are perpetuated in Karachi. We should be discussing solutions, not refuting allegations, that are tragically True...

Land of the Pure Talha,

There was commendable journalistic effort in your article. Unfortunately, there are more individuals like Zeba Khan headed for Pakistan than ever before. These individuals fund retrogressive causes whose involvement in murdering foreigners, Shia doctors, Christain social workers and Ahmadi professors does not borther them one bit.

As for Naqshbandi, which Pakistan are you living in my friend? Are you stuck in a twilight zone episode? Naats after every Fajr Namaz ???I wish that was the case. Unfortunately, the Sipah-e-Sahaba stones Sunni julooses every year when the birthday of our Holy Prophet (PBUH) is commemorated. As for your comment of ``we will see how proud you remain on the day of judgement``, I have only this to add. Are you God?If not, please refrain from passing Judgement. All of us will stand in front of our Creater on our own, without the added presence of sanctimonious individuals to put in their worthless two bits.

Doctors or the Disease A balanced article. A direct result of the Pak high command`s interference is the religious intolerance that is tearing the fabric of Pakistani society. While Nawaz Sharif and BB were discredited from the recent elections, a criminal with over a dozen cases (mostly murder and terrorism) pending against him was allowed to contest the elections and is now a member of Parliament.

Yes, Azam Tariq, leader of the Sipah-e-Sahaba (now renamed as Millat-e-Islamia) is once again free. If the Pakistani Generals were really concerned for the country, how did they allow this traversity of justice?
Either they are no longer calling the shots and their Frankenstein of religious extremism is wagging the country`s tail. Or this is just one of their latest experiments at the cost of continual damage to Pakistan`s institutions. After all, having extremist elements like the MMA and Azam Tariq in power serves their interest of obtaining leverage with the United States as the last ``bastion of moderation`` in a sea of extremism.