The Mystery of South India re: Echoboom

the Vindhya mountains are generally considered the dividing line between North and South. This would put a lot of Maharashtra and the entire Konkan coast in the South. But for reasons best known to historians and anthropologists, Marattas and Konkanis are not usually mentioned with other South Indian peopels. The Khaleelis that you mention might be part of the court of Arcot, which was a princely kingdom before independence. Many erstwhile Arcotis are very rich and successful businessmen and also hold high posts in the civil services. Ex-England cricket captain Nasser Hussain`s father is a scion of the royal family of Arcot.

regards

Kabuli

The Mystery of South India Nazar Khan

Decent attempt at giving an introduction to the land south of the Vindhyas. I just hope that you dont fall into the familiar trap of categorizing all of South India into one bracket, as your article seems to suggest. The land is as diverse as a mini continent. Let me begin with the geography. Kerala for example receives some of the highest rainfall in the country, however on the other hand, large parts of Andhra face severe water shortage almost every summer and the hottest region in India is a place in Andhra called Ramagundam. Even Hyderabad reaches 45 degrees Centigrade now and then. Not all of South India is matriarchal. It is only found in Kerala in the South and that too mostly among the Nair communities. In the north east, I believe it is found among Mizos. A miniscule percentage of South is vegetarian. Large number of Brahmins even, depending on where they are from, are great lovers of meats and sea food. You`d be hard pressed to find decent veg food in an Andhra restaurant. The food is mostly fiery meats, fish and poultry. The chettiars of Tamil Nadu (P. Chidambaram is a chettiar), master tradesmen, have invented an entire cuisine of their own, devoted almost entirely to meat and seafood. And rice too is not the staple of many South Indians. The northern parts of the Deccan, which has black soil and not alluvial fertile soil, eats mostly bajra and other such grain based food. This is found in North Karnataka and north Andhra. Soupy dals and curries are another misconception. Because dosas and idlis are the only things Northies and others know of South Indian food. Having been born and brought up for a while in Andhra, I have to date, not eaten in a banana leaf. This practice is mostly observed in households which believe in the caste system. For fear of having their plates and utensils contaminated. This is limited to a few households such as maybe extremely orthodox Brahmins. They are a minority.

There have been very few communal riots since Independence. Communal riots were unheard of during partition and the aftermath. Unlike certain linguistic groups, who love to tom tom their love for one another inspite of their religion, caste etc, people living in South India did not go for each others` throats at the time of independence. This is not to say that South Indians did not have grievances among themselves. Andhra was the first state to be organized on the basis of language. From as much as I know of Andhra history, there was no butchering and naare baazi such as ``leke rahenge``. A man, known as Sri Ramulu, self-immolated himself and this was the event that triggered the formation of Andhra and Tamil Nadu from out of the Madras Presidency.

Arabs have been trading, settling and intermarrying in the South since even before the advent of Islam. St. Thomas the Apostle brought Christianity to the south and ancient Jewish communities have lived in harmony in the south for millenia. It is significant that minority communities in the south speak their native tongues and not some other language which they perceive as more in tune with their religion.

On the negative side...well there is a lot that is negative also. though Kerala trumpets its literacy rate, it has the highest unemployment rate in India. ditto for suicide and drunkenness. Tamil Nadu suffers from a masochistic complex where it elects as Chief Minister, candidates from just two parties that are equally corrupt and h@rami. Andhra likes to trumpets its achievements in IT, but even Hyderabad does not have 24/7 running water. People wait for days and designated times when they fill their tanks and all other utensils in the house with water. Karnataka, the IT hub of India, cant settle its water disputes with its neighbours and its govt. acts in a manner that encourages linguistic hooligans such as banning English in govt. schools and bowing to the demands of a brigand to secure the release of a popular Kannada filmstar.

What I`m trying to say is, (I have said too much already), the south is way too diverse to even begin thinking of it as one entity, as the land and peoples have been moulded by far too many differing influences and events in history. About half of the South was ruled by Kings and the other half by the British until independence. And that is just one of the causes for its diversity.

regards,

Kabuli

Train to Pakistan 2004 - Heading Back Nice article...was looking forward to it and enjoyed reading it...the visas specifying that it is not valid for the cantt areas is I think, quite pointless and stupid...many cities have grown around the cantt areas because they are the best maintained...case in point being Bangalore and Lahore...even Pakistanis who visit India face the same problem...imagine a Pakistani who visits Bangalore...he had better hole up in the airport...because ring road is military property and so is much of Indira Nagar...heck, even the airport is used by the air force...almost all the tourist areas are in the `military zone`...when I visited Lahore, I HAD to pass through cantt areas to go to Faisal Town...and the house parties are mostly in Defence...another interesting similarity between Bangalore and Lahore is the location of their old airports...(Bangalore is all set to get a new one)...both are bang in the middle of the city...regards

Kabuli

Problems with Co-Education re: nooralain # 10

Touche :)

Problems with Co-Education re: maybe this theory would work in an already segregated society like say Saudi Arabia for example. But then societies being patriarchal in general and particularly so in places like Saudi Arabia, ``liberated by segregated education`` girls can expect to achieve more in only those fields where they play a bigger role anyway (I cant think of any such field in Saudi Arabia where women play a big role, maybe television presenters?)...but by and large this segregation business sounds like balderdash because in the real world adults, both male and female, are expected to interact with each other rather than segregate themselves in their own hives. Unless of course one lives in Saudi Arabia. By the way, in all my classes I can think of at least 3-4 girls among the leading achievers in class and they were in no way cowed, but individuals with great determination and self esteem. There were about the same number of individuals in the male segment of the class too. The research you have cited paints a monolithic boys vs monolithic girls picture. But you have to realize that not all boys are alike, there are some very intelligent, some moderate and some poor students. The same can be said about girls.


``But if we look from a Western sociological perspective, co-education has been declared as extremely disadvantageous to the female students. Many feminist movements have started an active campaign to get single-sex schools established in large numbers.``

I think the operative word is ``feminist``.

regards

Kabuli

Drama over the Karakurams mazaa aa gaya...bravo

A Bold Agenda for United Progressive Alliance (UPA) The article is very optimistic and I wish for the sake of India, it was that simple...But with the history of the Left parties and the Congress, if even one-tenth of what is written can see the light of day, it would be a great achievement...I mean the Left parties have successfully managed to keep college tuition fees in Bengal to 16 rupees to this day...yes, 16 rupees...with a major ally like that do you really think the Congress can concentrate on ecnomic growth?...Dr. YSR Reddy is from my district in AP...he is notorious as a violent man who doesnt hesitate to indulge in booth-bombings to get his way...but hey, what does it matter if a few criminals become chief ministers when we have the likes of Laloo Yadav running around right?...and this whole business about the Telangana movement that the Congress has poured ghee into...believe me, this is going to blow up...the same kind of divisive politics by the Congress reduced the Punjab to a police state with thousands of innocents murdered...the Telangana people have every right to secede...that area has been mistreated first by the Nizam and then by the policies of latter governments, which incidentally were mostly of the Congress...before the elections they promised them a different state...now that they have won by a considerable majority, they dont seem so keen on it...it is this kind of backstabbing that can be very dangerous in an area already prone to violence what with the naxal movement in full swing....as for secular politics, hahahaha...do you really think the Congress is capable of being secular after Babri masjid, Bhindranwale etc?....they will only do what suits their vote banks...and uniform civil code and abolition of religious subsidies...never mind...the election results have put me in a conundrum...I`m happy that the NDA lost(apart from TDP)...but am sad that the Congress and allies won....it is sad that there is no other alternative in the country...looking on the bright side, if the BJP had won and Vajpayee kicked the bucket a few years later, that would mean Mr. Psycho Advani himself would become the PM...so at least that scenario is avoided...I hope Sonia is really sincere when she says that she doesnt want to become PM...and Manmohan Singh gets the post...and what is with all these jokers threatening that they will commit suicide, posing with toy pistols anyway?...who are they kidding?

Kabuli

Train to Pakistan 2004: In and Around Pindi veeresh,

I think you have been honest and truthful in your travelogue...you have called a spade, a spade and I am grateful for that....your travelogue highlights both the good and the bad, and all the places and the people, in fact most things in life have both...you have seen the place as a native born commoner sees it, not as some kid who becomes happy in a store when given a toffee by the bania and loses all perspective...your detractors here, armywallahs and editors, are notorious for their empty, illogical and nonsensical bravado and nationalistic inhumanism....so I wouldnt pay any heed to them....Pakistan, Lahore especially, is a beautiful country and I love many people there and am soon to have a nephew there...however, just like in most places, there are also some whose company I probably wouldnt enjoy like the aforementioned personalities...so just as it has wonderful things to boast of, like the wondrous beauty of its women for example, there are also things that are quite ugly like the bigotry and intolerance of some of its editors and armywallahs...so thanks again for not painting everything black or white...I would prefer this kind of honesty anyday than lies/non-information disguised as humility...by the way, when I saw Lahore, I too felt it didnt measure to the big Indian cities...but comparing it to Amristar did hurt...Amritsar really is a dump...God knows why the Gurus chose that place...Lucknow in its heyday is probably an apt comparison...just as an aside, my first impression of Pakistan was being swindled in both Lahore airport and then a few years later in Karachi airport...I had to put up with insults on the phone when the trunkcall operator found out where I was calling...but that didnt keep me from enjoying the rest of my trip in Pakistan in the company of some truly honest and open people...looking forward to your next installment...regards

Kabuli

Train to Pakistan 2004: In and Around Pindi veeresh,

I think you have been honest and truthful in your travelogue...you have called a spade, a spade and I am grateful for that....your travelogue highlights both the good and the bad, and all the places and the people, in fact most things in life have both...you have seen the place as a native born commoner sees it, not as some kid who becomes happy in a store when given a toffee by the bania and loses all perspective...your detractors here, armywallahs and editors, are notorious for their empty, illogical and nonsensical bravado and nationalistic inhumanism....so I wouldnt pay any heed to them....Pakistan, Lahore especially, is a beautiful country and I love many people there and am soon to have a nephew there...however, just like in most places, there are also some whose company I probably wouldnt enjoy like the aforementioned personalities...so just as it has wonderful things to boast of, like the wondrous beauty of its women for example, there are also things that are quite ugly like the bigotry and intolerance of some of its editors and armywallahs...so thanks again for not painting everything black or white...I would prefer this kind of honesty anyday than lies/non-information disguised as humility...by the way, when I saw Lahore, I too felt it didnt measure to the big Indian cities...but comparing it to Amristar did hurt...Amritsar really is a dump...God knows why the Gurus chose that place...Lucknow in its heyday is probably an apt comparison...just as an aside, my first impression of Pakistan was being swindled in both Lahore airport and then a few years later in Karachi airport...I had to put up with insults on the phone when the trunkcall operator found out where I was calling...but that didnt keep me from enjoying the rest of my trip in Pakistan in the company of some truly honest and open people...looking forward to your next installment...regards

Kabuli

Peaceful Strokes re: # 14 malik99


``Gavasker too was a master batsman in scoring on slllooooooowww indian pitches. Just look at where he scored most of his centuries.``

Is that why the West Indians sing paens about him?...Against the most fearsome attack to date, with paarfum balls flying around, he stood his ground and made double centuries at that...Yeah he was dustbowl batsman allright!!!

The Most Ineffective Ban Ever It is true that Bollywood is losing out on revenue...but Bollywood film makers themselves do not respect intellectual property rights of Hollywood, European or any other film maker...they keep churing ``inspired`` versions of other people`s work without paying royalties... then what right does Bollywood have to b!tch when others do the same...in a way it is good that Mahesh Bhatt, Subhash Ghai and their ilk lose money...then people with creative talent who do not depend on glitz-glamor or rehashed bullsh!t can make movies that can give some meaning to the word cinema.

Punjabi Heroes that History Forgot Mr. Khan,

Tipu Sultan`s ancestors came from the Punjab according to some sources...so maybe he too can be listed in your list...the painting of Tipu of Srirangapatnam of Mysore in the Punjab assembly in Lahore certainly did surprise me...I wonder if many Punjabis know of Tipu`s Punjabi roots...as regards the discussion vis-a-vis Punjabi, I think as Punjabi grows in confidence, at least among the Sikhs, Punjabis have started to indulge in reverse discrimination...for example, in Chandigarh, it is a known fact that Hindi speaking Biharis and UP wallahs are ridiculed and made fun by calling them ``bhayya``...though the word in itself isnt insulting, it is used as a derogatory term...it can be argued that they are insulted because of ethnicity, but then there are many Jats and Gujars who do not speak Punjabi in places like Rajasthan and Haryana...and Punjabi chauvinism is beginning to have an affect on Sikhism as a practising religion also...Sikhs, nowadays instead of taking inspiration from the humble and `bhaichara` teachings of Sikh Gurus, instead have become slaves to Punjabi politics, much of which has to do with the Punjabi language...Sikhs have begun to consider themselves as superior to other people, at least in India and this in direct violation of the teachings of the Gurus...pride in one`s own culture is one thing, but hubris is a complete different matter...this I say not with any ill feelings towards Punjabi, but as a Sikh, who is sad that the community instead of being progressive and above bias, is getting sucked into pettiness.

Punjabi Heroes that History Forgot Nice article Mr. Khan...Porus became one of my favourite historical figures because of the the way he is honored in Indian textbooks...how is he treated in the textbooks in Pakistan?...regarding Porus, I think he is called Purushottam in sanskrit languages and many Indians are named Purushottam...however this could also be in honor of Ram of the Ramayana ....you write,``Turko-Afghan successors like Qutbudin Aiback, Altimush and Razia Sultana are better; and during their time, art and literature flourishes. These are the times of Guru Nanak and Kabir. Data Gunj Bakhsh comes to Lahore with Mahmud Ghazni’s son, who was governor of Lahore.``... Guru Nanak was a contemporary of Babur and so he came on the scene a little later...regards

Kabuli

Mahathir’s Speech - An Alternative Muslim View Well said Anne...I completely agree with you...as much as I respect Mr. Mohammad for turning his country around in economic terms ( inspite of some of his xenophobic policies especially vis-a-vis ethnic Indians who occupy the lowest rung of Malaysian society), I was let down by his departing message to the world...one would think that a man of science would be more humble and civil...and I am beginning to lose hope in the ``Muslim`` press, because most of them seem to `wah-wah` Mr. Mohammad, and like him, paint the entire scenario with one broad stroke. I`m really glad I read your article...cheers

Kabuli

Sargodha & Migs Mr.Khan,

your article brought back memories of the great time Mantolives and I had in Sargodha in the summer of 2000. On our way back to Lahore we had lunch at this restaurant called, Kirana Bahaar (if I`m not mistaken)...there was a wedding reception going on in the reception hall...but what knocked off my `hosh` was this female maitre d` who could only be described as a `hoor pari`...did not expect that in a traditional looking town like Sargodha.

re: dost-mittar

when I went to Mantolives` maternal haveli, the first thing I saw was the devnagiri script on the front porch...it had `Niranjan Niwas` written in Hindi...the house is still grand, which if I remember correctly was built in 1905 I think...when we were on the terrace, Manto`s mamoo showed me the the spire of the local locked up Mandir and said, ``we have safeguarded your temple``...I could not help but think of Ayodhya...in any case, he said that there was still a Hindu living in the area and is a very old lawyer...just thought I`d share that with you when I read about your wife`s grandfather being a hotshot lawyer and all.

regards

Kabuli

Greatest Indians Let the past be...try this out for great:


http://in.rediff.com/money/2003/sep/30inter.htm