Farewell to Shimla re: 105

show me one instance where I have said there was no violence against Muslims in India in 1947. If that is the impression you got from my post, I hope your day job doesn't require too much English comprehension.

Farewell to Shimla borivilli bhai,

I am not saying that Jinnah wanted Hindus and Sikhs to leave...he seems to have personally tried to have them stay in Pakistan, if only to keep his creation floating until it could stand on its feet...what I am saying is that the grass roots Muslim League theory articulated by Jinnah propounded Pakistan as a nation for Muslims, in vocabulary that clearly saw the Hindus and Sikhs as being the antagonists of Muslim rights...this is not unlike the rhetoric used by BJP in states like Gujarat where Muslims are seen as the 'other' and demonized as a whole...history has seen time and again how splitting people into 'us' and 'them' dehumanises the 'them' and anything against them 'them' goes...Jews in Germany, Muslims in Gujarat, Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan are just a few of the examples...in such an environment, the animosity that was building against the 'other' during the struggle for Pakistan, was released once it was achieved...Jinnah might not have forseen the horrific results of partition, but he definitely exploited the 'us' vs. 'them' and for this he is at least partly responsible for the partition violence.

Congress leaders seemed to have an inclination of the violence that would follow partition. If only they had drawn up provisions for transfer of minorities, I believe much of the partition violence could have been avoided. They had a precedent in the population transfer between Turkey and Greece overseen by the great Ataturk. That case was not unlike India and Pakistan. Unfortunately, no one had the balls in the Congress, like Ataturk did. It would've been an unpleasant business, but it would've saved lives and saved us 60 years of animosity.

Farewell to Shimla why a people leave or stay is best answered by the people who actually did...only those who felt the fear and anxiety about their personal safety can answer why they left a land they lived in centuries before Islam subjugated them...no wonder Pakistanis today believe that their land was jannat for Hindus and Sikhs because Jinnah told them that minorities left Pakistan because they were cowards and did not give enough opportunities to Muslims to show their largesse...I don't think Jinnah wished violence upon the Hindus and Muslims of Pakistan...but he was incredibly naive and stupid to believe that the Muslimeen of his new country would let the Hindus and Sikhs off easily for wholeheartedly opposing the creation of Pakistan only until recently...a fight that was couched in terms of US vs. Them, upon fruition, was bound to see a reaction against the "Them". Migration was inevitable for Hindus and Sikhs. If only the terms had been agreed upon, it could've been done peacefully and lives would've been saved.

Farewell to Shimla http://www.pakistan.gov.pk/Quaid/speech09.htm

Another question that has been agitating my mind is the treatment of minorities. I have repeatedly made it clear in my utterances, both private and public, that we would treat the minorities fairly and that nothing is farther from our thoughts than to drive them away. I, however, regret to say that the minorities here did not give us a chance to prove our bonafides and give us their wholehearted co-operation as citizens of Pakistan when the crises suddenly overtook us. Before we could assume the reins of office, non-Muslims started pulling out of Pakistan, which, as subsequent events have proved, was part of an well-organized plan to cripple Pakistan. But for a few sporadic incidents here and there, nothing has happened to mar the peace of Sindh, but despite the prevalence of peaceful conditions here the exodus of Hindus continues. Some have given way to panic and others have been leaving Pakistan in the hope that it will be paralyzed economically and socially. A lot of migrants are already realizing the folly of their rash act and leaving the country of their birth or domicile but some interested parties persist in encouraging migration which is fraught with grievous consequences for the migrants and also does harm to our State in the process.

Farewell to Shimla http://www.pakistan.gov.pk/Quaid/speech16.htm

I fully sympathize with Hindus many of whom have been misled by propaganda that is being carried on to pull them out of Sind, with an ulterior motive, and as a result many innocent Hindus have seriously suffered. With regard to this unfortunate trouble, it is not yet known who was responsible for bringing the Sikhs to Karachi and arranging to lodge them at the Gurdwara without informing the District Magistrate, Sind, or any Sind Authority or Police; this is a matter which requires thorough investigation. At present it seems somewhat mysterious, but it is going to be fully investigated.

Pakistan Zindabad

Farewell to Shimla the most cruel joke on partition violence was made by Jinnah where he claimed that the killing of Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan was a conspiracy to cripple the economic viability of Pakistan (He is saying that Sikhs and Hindus in Pakistan were being killed by Indians or their agents in order to force their exodus and thus deprive Pakistan of their knowhow in vital fields). I think he really lost it in the end.

All said and done, Indians should be grateful that Jinnah got his Pakistan, hanste ya rote doesn't matter. Things would've turned out dandy if the Muslim League and the Congress, following the example of Turkey and Greece after WWI, agreed upon a complete transfer of population between the two republics in a peaceful, orderly and systematic manner. Jinnah must be laughing in his grave at the stupidity of the Congress.

The Ramadan Ordinance without disputing the merits of this article, I respectfully submit that it could've done with much less legalese.

regards

The Monks and Realpolitik Just goes to show how much the whole world is scared of antagonizing China, which is the real power behind the Burmese Junta. I hope the Bhikshus persevere in the face of total apathy from the world. Shame on Hindus who cry out for Kashmiri Pundits, shame on Muslims who cry out for Palestinians, shame on Christians who cry out for Sudan.

Disgusting and Pathetic. Somebody please slap Pranab Mukherjee. Kutta.

War of Independence or the Great Mutiny re: # 14 masanamuthu

well put. I feel that Dalrymple is a muslim apologist.

Dillu Ram Kausari: The Hindu Poet who Loved The Prophet cheesy throughout and a bit daft at the end

War of Independence or the Great Mutiny I for one am glad that things turned out the way they did. Though the horrible vengeance wreaked by the British upon innocents of all hues must be condemned and exposed to the world (it was not unlike the wholesale massacre of native americans or aborigines in Australia), the end result of the British crown assuming control is the best possible result of the mutiny as far as the vast majority of Indians are concerned. It benefited non-Muslims in two ways. Firstly they were able to move away from their rigid and putrifying rituals and customs via the efforts of social reformers of Brahmo Samaj and Arya Samaj who had in turn been influenced by Western ideals. Secondly, the idea of Muslim supremacy was well and truly crushed. The war liberated Hindus politically from the shadow of Muslim/Mughal empire and enabled them to chart out their own destiny. If the war hadn't occured, Hindus would still be learning Persian and Arabic as Hindu intellectuals then did, and would be today wallowing in the same morass as most of the Muslim world. But by learning English and adopting the English education system, the benefits of renaissance were available to the Hindu elite and middle classes and this enabled the Hindus first to avail the opportunities available and also to reform themselves politically and socially. It is indeed ironic that the scrutiny and research done by the British on Hindu civilization and rituals, gave an impetus to Hindu consciousness through reform and debate from within. We had so many reformers in all parts of India clamoring for rights of the disadvantaged within Hinduism such as women, Dalits etc. Such reform would never have seen the light of day under Muslim rule.

Muslims also could've benefitted similarly, but they were too arrogant to let go of their old ways, which even before the war, had begun to eat away at the fabric of their society. British scrutiny rather made Muslims defensive and they began to recoil deeper and deeper into their past glory. Only a small section of Muslim intellegentsia adopted Western ways, but most of these happened to be from the feudal classes. They used their power and influence to enrich themselves and keep their privileges intact rather than bringing any true reform within Muslim society.

War of Independence or the Great Mutiny test

Limits of Multiculturalism Pakis choke again!!!!

Go India!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Democracy, not terror, is the engine of political Islam Pakis choke again!!!!

Go India!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Limits of Multiculturalism Western societies in general have much more evolved judicial systems in place than the countries most immigrants come from. This is especially so for immigrants from Muslim countries. The Western legal system should in no way accomodate the religious prejudices and depravities of immigrant societies in civil law. Concepts from filthy texts which espouse half value for a woman's and a non-Muslim's witness vis-a-vis a Muslim man should be left behind in the medieval societies where they originated. Why is purdah required for women and not for men. Such discriminitory practices should not be encouraged but made illegal. Even if shariah is acceptable to the two parties concerned, it should not be allowed. The law should be the same for everyone in the land. If Muslims get special courts, then what is to stop Neo-Nazis getting their own special courts?

What about Bombay 1992? borivili_express,

how is your hatred of hindus any different from the hatred felt by the perpetrators of Gujarat riots? You demonise and demean your villians to the lowest level. Like Ranjit said, you dehumanize them. It is people exactly like you who caused the partition to spiral out of control. Why don't you use anger management techniques when you post online? I can understand your anger. But that is no excuse for lumping all Hindus as villains or child murderers. Remember, most of the activism to bring justice to the victims of the riots is carried out by Hindus. Please bear that in mind.