In Memory of R.K. Narayan Sat Sri Akal dost-mittar ji

Thank you for this...R. K. Narayan is a favourite of mine...so simple and easy to read...not at all like Salman Rushdie whose various books, I abandoned after reading the first 20 or 30 pages...what thrills me is coming across some characters over and over in all Narayan`s works...guess that had to be because all of them are set in Malgudi...its like Bapsi Sidhwa`s writing where the characters in one work are related to the characters in her other works...actually I found R. K. Narayan similar to Bapsi Sidhwa...very funny and simple...yet there is an undercurrent of seriousness in both their works...once again, thanx



re: anamika # 19

actually if I`m not mistaken, he had been living until his death in Mysore...he went to Chennai for treatment...my friend had promised to introduce me to Mr. Narayan on one of our trips to Mysore from Bangalore...but now that will not be


re: sadna # 18

if I`m not mistaken, wasn`t the daughter-in-law Korean?...its been around two-three years when I read around 5 to 6 of his works in one summer...they`re all a little jumbled up in my head...late in the nights, I had to read them in the bathroom because my mom would yell at me for leaving the light on in the bedroom


re: Urstruly # 17

Any decent township/city library will carry at least 2 or 3 of R . K. Narayan`s works


Kabuli

Sher Shah Suri re: ylh # 902

Come on man, who is going to set the constitution of this group of Muslim countries?...does the country HAVE to be muslim majority to join, initially even?...or can it be a muslim minority...if the country is muslim majority, how muslim?...in the sense that how do they interpret Islam?...like Turkey or Taliban?...would the members be Islamic or Muslim...do you think their outlook on issues would be the same?...and then what about those countries, which might be significant players and mostly non-Muslim, who have had a history of conflict with one or more of the countries in this group and located in the vicinity of the members of this group?...should they feel insecure?...if not, why should they feel secure?...and what gives this group the right to patronize other third world countries in giving them entry only later?...why not at the start?...do you think you would have liked it if the UN initially constituted countries only from the West and then later decided to ALLOW third world countries in?...do you mean to imply (by not letting `em in at the start and only giving them membership when it is ``firmly in place``) that non-Musliim countries would by their nature be opposed to this group of Muslim countries?...if that is the case, then why?...just curious


I know exactly what `secular` means...I also know that this word has been raped over and over by politicians in India...but that is another matter...seriously tell me, what percentage of Muslim countries are secular?...if Islamic countries are to play a role in this group, would religion not play a significant if not a dominant role?


Kabuli

Sher Shah Suri re: ylh # 899

I think Muslims derive a sort of pride out of being labelled as `jehadi`...I think it makes them feel heroic and manly...certainly, it might have a negative connotation in the West, where the meaning of Jehad has been distorted, but in your own country, a Jehadi, I am sure, would be met with respect and awe


On the other hand, the word you used, bania, will be met with displeasure by most Hindus, in India or anywhere...maybe except of course, Hindus belonging to the Vaishya caste...even they would, I think, rather not use `baniya` because of the negative connotations of the word...isn`t it surprising that Muslims stereotype Hindus (I certainly haven`t seen the West stereotyping Hindus as banias) by giving them a casteist term while they tom tom all over town that they don`t believe in caste?...well most South Asian Muslims anyways


on the ICBM issue, if India was making ICBMs to get its way with its neighbours, then all the major disputes between countries with ICBMs and their neighbours would be over by now...China has them...Taiwan still rages on...Russia has `em...Chechnya continues to fester...



Pakistan should not feel insecure if India (God forbid) acquires ICBMs...if you want to anyways, thats your problem...like you yourself said, the range of an ICBM is far too large to hurt Pakistan or even Islamic and Muslim countries...so please, stop approriating Pakistan with importance that it does not have...everything that India does is not aimed against Pakistan...I`d rather India compete with mighty China than Pakistan...but that doesn`t satisfy Pakistan does it?...it wants to be reckoned important enough to lock horns with India...but then again whines about how India is responsible for all the problems in the subcontinent...please grow up....and take responsibility for your actions


And as for a Union of Muslim countries, if that ever happens, non-Muslim and secular- democratic countries will have to form a group of their own to counter it...for Islamic and Muslim countries are not free of fanaticism of their own...eent ka jawab patthar se

Kabuli

Sher Shah Suri re: scout # 813

``Don`t tell me you`ve never uttered something negative about Pakistan in retaliation to something negative about India?...Whatever I have said about India has been in retaliation to what an Indian has said to me. I`m not going to sit like a `bheegi billi` and shut up when someone`s degrading my identity.``

Then why all the b!tch!ing about the abuse hurled at mothers and sisters?...how are you ANY different from those who abuse mothers and sisters?...now understand what I meant by consistency?...why the pretension of superior moral authority?...if you can hurl abuse at another country to retaliate for what someone said about your country, then why can`t somebody do the same to someone`s female relative to retaliate against what that someone said about that person`s female relative?...though I am ashamed of myself for stooping to chuggad`s level, I only dished out what he started...my question is, what should a person think of you, for whom his country is more important than any relative?...if you are sensitive enough to feel about mothers and sisters, are you sensitive enough to think of others` nationalistic feelings?...in any case, I have always said that Indians and Pakis should stay out of each others` affairs...you yourself have commended me for this in the past.

If you are going to be consistent with your logic, then please sermonize about anything you want...but if are going to be an occasional turd, then please spare us the billicrap

Kabuli

Sher Shah Suri re: ylh # 811

dude do you seriously think bania and jehadi mean the same, even in an analogical sense?

A Jehadi in reality or when used in language is sacrificing himself, wrongly or rightly...the word bania when used in language is used to describe a selfish and calculating person...if you want a word that is parallel to Jehadi in the Indian context, then try Kar Sevak


Why is India making ICBMs?...ummm, lets see, maybe because India is surrounded by enemies?...now Pakiland is giving naval assistance to Myanmar?...lets see, what the hell does Pakiland and Myanmar have in common?...maybe both are run by dictators?....but I do agree with you that ICBMs will be a huge drain on India`s resources, which could be better spent on primary education...and also, they will increase the insecurity of ummm, US, Europe or the far east of China?...but definitely not Pakistan...its an ICBM for crying out loud...if India has to nuke China, will Pakiland also have to nuke China?

Sher Shah Suri re: Ms. scout # 787

Geeez...you are disappointed?...then how should I feel?...on the one hand you are extremely nice to me in the emails...and for crying out loud, make a Maharashtrian Brahmin (no disrespect shankarji, just pointing out the contrast) your resident brother...write feel-goody things about raakhi...and then on the other hand, you make fun of the AIDs situation in India, imply that India is a land of prostitutes, use things like `moonh pe ram, ram...bagal mein churri` for Indians...say that your Indian classmates are suspicious and quarrelsome (by the way, ever wondered that it might not only be them, but your own perception might be false? )...and when it is none of this, you play your feminist card...where is your consistency?...somebody on chowk said that Pakis admire Jinnah for his consistency...might be true...then where the hell is your consistency?...ylh talks on and on like an overused record about how well the minorities are treated in Pakistan...he oversteps into cornydom with his Vesaakh (its also known as Buddha Poornima by the way) post...and then like a slap in the face, uses derogatory terms for Hindus, posts his ICBM stuff where he refers to Hindus as Baniyas (nothing wrong in being a Baniya, but Pakis definitely don`t use it with a respectful connotation... and what about the Baniyas in Pakistan?...ylh, if you are reading, most of the Buddhist converts were Vysyas or what you call baniyas...will give you more info if interested)...


and then, to put the icing on the cake you come up with this to describe Indians:



``back stabbing, moo par meethay, ander say zehreelay, they are filled with so much hatred for Pakistanis inside their hearts, that they can pretend just `so` much, and then it`s all down hill from there.``

and to give that extra punch, you place the responsibility for your bitterness and immaturity squarely on the shoulders of Indians...Miss,

you say

``only be friendly if you really are sincere about it. there are enough two faced people out there.``

Can I say the same thing to you?...and what is it in my post that upset you so much?...I really didn`t say and definitely didn`t mean anything offensive...I was just pointing out your inconsistency...on chowk, the only Pakistani I found to be consistent is Mr. tahmed321...should I then go and say all Pakistanis are hypocrites?...what about Mr. tahmed321?


madam, in my soon to be 21 years in this world, I have come to dislike hypocrites...to put it mildly...in your own holy book, there are a number of verses condemning hypocrisy and hypocrites....

and just before I go, if you will indulge me a little longer, (not to pick names or anything, only pointing out your inherent bias and prejudice, maybe) you admire a certain individual on this board inspite of some pretty nasty things he said to you, for his passion...and you say bye bye to me because I highlighted your inconsistency?...is it because he is a Muslim Paki and I am a non-Muslim Indian?...for chrissakes bibi, where are you showing your 4 years of extra living in this world?...you call Inidans ``zehreelay``...is your heart pure?

Kabuli

Sher Shah Suri re: scout chaachi

Kyon chaachi, I remember your great self making some prettty nasty remarks about Indian women...where was your feminist fury then?...I hate to be a patriarchal womanherder, but why is it that your feminist lobes get tickled only when Paki women are concerned, but you take great liberties with Indian women?

yours

Kabuli





re: chuggad # 615

Thanks for recognizing me as a `shudra`...I wear my `shudrahood` as a badge of honour...I revel in it...but why are you so antoganistic towards shudras?...were your ancestors kattar casteists?...are your elders still casteist?...is that what you were taught at home?

As for the gutter bit, are you speaking from personal experience?

And when I said ``us``, I meant Indians in general and the Khalsa in particular...take care chuggad and though I hate to admit it, I shouldn`t have brought your daadi into this...but makes me wonder though, where did you get those goddawful genes?

Sher Shah Suri re: chuggad # 615

Thanks for recognizing me as a `shudra`...I wear my `shudrahood` as a badge of honour...I revel in it...but why are you so antoganistic towards shudras?...were your ancestors kattar casteists?...are your elders still casteist?...is that what you were taught at home?

As for the gutter bit, are you speaking from personal experience?

And when I said ``us``, I meant Indians in general and the Khalsa in particular...take care chuggad and though I hate to admit it, I shouldn`t have brought your daadi into this...but makes me wonder though, where did you get those goddawful genes?

Sher Shah Suri re: female infanticide


http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20010507&fname=Akal+Takht+%28F%29&sid=1



SIKHS
Faith`s Benign Fiat
Female foeticide is condemned as the sex ratio drops in Punjab

NAVRATTAN P. SINGH


The Akal Takht`s pulse rate has quickened once again as it finds itself rudely jolted out of its routine rhythm. The difference, however, is that this time around it`s not some ticklish politico-religious controversy that`s grabbed its attention. Instead, the alarm bells have been sent ringing in the highest religious body of the Sikhs, thanks to the declining female to male ratio in Punjab. The takht has come down heavily against the practice of female foeticide which, it believes, is to be blamed for the shrinking sex ratio. Says Akal Takht jathedar Joginder Singh Vedanti: ``In accordance with the Sikh rehat maryada—Sikh religious traditions—anyone indulging in the unhealthy practice of female foeticide would be excommunicated or declared a tankhaiya.


``in accordance with the Sikh rehat maryada, anyone indulging in the practice of female foeticide would be excommunicated or declared a tankhaiya. Women have always held a position of esteem in the Sikh society.`` Joginder Singh vedanti


Women have always held a position of esteem in the community. The practice of female foeticide must be roundly condemned.``

The Sikh clergy has taken upon itself the task of restoring the sex ratio of Punjab in general and the Sikhs in particular so that they at least match the national average. At a meeting last fortnight, the Sikh high priests adopted a resolution proclaiming



that the status of women in Sikh society is equivalent to that of men. Vedanti has also stated that sex determination tests go against the basic tenets of Sikhism.

What is really worrisome, one might even say alarming, is that against the national average of 933, Punjab with 874 females to every 1,000 males now ranks 29th in terms of sex ratio. Only Haryana and the Union Territories have sex ratio lower than that. From 832 in 1901, Punjab`s sex ratio dropped to 780 in 1911, the lowest ever in the state before it started improving consistently to reach 882 in 1992, its best ever. Ever since it`s gone on a downslide once again and chances of it recovering appear rather bleak.

The provisional figures also startlingly reveal that the ratio of females to males in the 0-6 age-group in the state has fallen considerably—from 875 in 1991 to 793 in 2001, a fall of 82 points. The highest fall was in Fatehgarh Sahib district where it plummeted from 874 to 754 followed by Kapurthala (from 879 to 775), Gurdaspur (878 to 775) and Patiala (871 to 770). Fatehgarh Sahib had the lowest girl child ratio in the 0-6 age group.

Both Fatehgarh Sahib and Ludhiana topped the list in the dropping ratio of females to males since 1991—871 to 851 and 844 to 824 respectively.

After this year`s census released the provisional population figures, the Sikh high priests took a serious view of Punjab`s sex ratio and issued an appeal to the entire society not to indulge in female foeticide. The appeal maintains that the social fabric was being disturbed as the ratio of the girl to boy child was on the decline. The ``killing of a girl violates the rehat maryada and no Sikh will have any relations with one who indulges in this act. Women have always been held in high esteem in the Sikh society and religion``.

Vedanti dipped into Sikh history to prove his point, saying Guru Nanak had pointed out that ``women could not be condemned as it is they who give birth even to kings``. The Akal Takht jathedar maintained that this directive of the high priests would be strictly enforced to end discrimination, if any, against the girl child.

The growing belief that a girl adds to the burden of a household has led to a surge in the number of female foeticide cases. This macabre scenario has exacerbated further due to the mushrooming of sex-determination clinics across the state.Surprisingly, the dip in the sex ratio has been more pronounced in the affluent cities, although small towns haven`t escaped the malaise either.

The meeting, where the strictures against female foeticide were passed, was attended by the jathedars of all the five takhts, besides the other singh sahibans. Though the practice was sharply condemned, no plan of action was announced to check the antipathy towards the girl child. While the Akal Takht`s word carries considerable weight, everyone agrees that an awareness campaign has to be launched to put an end to female foeticide. This will have to be followed up with the authorities cracking down on doctors and clinics which help in the perpetuation of the practice. For now, however, the Akal Takht has taken the first but most crucial step.

Navrattan P. Singh in Chandigarh

Sher Shah Suri re: chuggad # 576

``Maybe they should send the little Rupinder Kaurs across the border to Lahore`s Hira Mandi to promote Punjabiat. hehehehe``


you think that for the little ;) ;) that your daadi and the sewer pig carried on way back in the day?...now look what you`ve made me do...please don`t provoke us man...your poor little daadi

Sher Shah Suri re: PurpleLily # 335

Bibi,

I can understand the trauma you must`ve gone through...I was in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia during the Gulf war....I was around 10 then...the rubbery smell inside the gas mask used to make me nauseous and I had to make a great effort not to throw up inside...my parents would rush me and my little sister into an airsealed room and get our special clothing and gas masks on and then would do the same for themselves...then they would seal the door, turn the AC off, turn the TV on and just wait...this could happen anytime morning or day...and I used to get angry at the siren and my parents for waking me up sometimes in the middle of the night when all this happened...My sister and I would cry when our parents talked about sending us two to India while they stayed back, because there weren`t enough plane tickets to go around...we would beg them that either we all go together or we would stay at the same place... I can understand the fear you felt bibi, when you can hear your heartbeat.

As for Punjab, it was beyond Sikh hands, bibi...Bhindranwale was Indira Gandhi`s creation...she made him to counter the Akali Dal, a political party, her opposition in Punjab...Zail Singh, whom Indira handpicked, was Bhindranwale`s mentor... it was all dirty politics...the political games Indira played brought misery to Punjab...it is not religion...I assure you, bibi, that the Guru said to always defend the weak and helpless...He sacrificed his father and sons for that purpose...his most trusted follower, Banda Singh Bahadur, was born a Hindu as Lachman Das in Jammu...Bhindranwale killed innocent people, both Hindu and Sikh, just because they didn`t obey his hukms...people who call that maniac a Sant are not Sikh at all...Sikhs do not hate Punjabi Hindus,bibi...a large many of them are relatives...Hindus gave shelter to Sikhs during the Delhi and Kanpur riots...but yes, Sikhs do feel letdown...first Haryana and Himachal Pradesh and then the way some Punjabi Hindus made jashn when Harmandar Sahib was attacked...you have to realize bibi that Harmandar Sahib to us is like the holiest of the holy...I have seen people (poor, rich, ignorant, educated) wipe the floor there with their dupattas and kameezes even though the marble floor was cool, clean and spotless...they find an intoxicating release inside the premises...the love that Sikhs feel for Harmandar Sahib is not possible to describe in words...and such a place, Indira desecrated...and that too in what manner...it was the Guru`s birthday I believe...more people than usual were inside the Gurudwara...she closed everything...she ruined us bibi...tears come to my eyes and I feel uncontrollable anger when I think about the callousness, arrogance and comeplete contempt and disregard with which she behaved...I am proud of the bodyguards who put that dog to death...they were her bodyguards for crying out loud, sworn to protect her...but they killed her only because they felt their being violated...(that the Khalistanis use that act for their propaganda purposes indicates their utter disregard for the Sikh principles of sacrifice and justice)...I was only 4 when this happened...just imagine how people who saw and went through that nightmare must feel...and have the Sikhs got justice?...even today Bhagat and Tytler roam free...to add insult to injury, they get Congress tickets every election year...inquiry after inquiry acquits them...thousands of Sikhs are witness to them leading the mobs in Delhi...and all this happening to a community that has devoted itself to India?...the Gurus, Hari Singh Nalwa, Shaheed Bhagat Singh, Shaheed Udham Singh, thousands of Sikh jawans who made untold sacrifices, the hundreds of charities and trusts which provide succour and relief to the needy and helpless...why?...what have the Sikhs done?...my friends who lived in Punjab during the emergency tell me of the atrocities committed by both the Khalistanis and the Punjab police( many of whom are Sikh by the way and headed then by KPS Gill)...my friends tell me of how families were notified of the deaths of their loved ones only when they found half-eaten pieces of cloth flowing down rivers...though KPS Gill has been glorified for bringing peace to Punjab, he has committed untold acts of cruelty over Punjab...he is as despicable as Bhindranwale

My parents are Hindu and I am Sikh...believe me when I say that Singhs do not hold Hinduism responsible for the wrongs commited in the past...we owe a lot to Hinduism...Bhakti, karma, reincarnation, tolerance etcetara...I was taking a break from my studies and read your post...I felt very moved and could connect with you...I am very happy and grateful to you and your family that you do not hold Sikhism responsible for the suffering you went through...people who do that can only be the enemies of India, Indians and humanity...take care and many regards

Kabuli

Sher Shah Suri re: YLH # 254

But let me say this for now...First of all, you insult most Sikhs by calling them Khalistani...we are Khalsa, not Khalistani...the Khalistanis are a racist group who want to monopolize Sikhism within Punjab...if you go by their definition, Sikhs would only stay in the present state of Punjab...as we all know, that is not the truth...Sikhism is a universal religion and the Khalistanis are doing a great disservice to the Gurus with their racist, bigoted crap......Only two of the first five Khalsa were Punjabi...the rest came from other parts of India...that is 60%...I don`t think you have any idea of what Khalistan movement is about...you take the word of a few fundamentalist paindoos (as you like to call them) over millions of educated Sardars...these Khalistanis kill those who don`t obey them...be it a newspaper editor in Canada or Punjab for that matter or people who sit on the table for langar...today a large portion of Sardars are mona(shaved or trimmed beards and short hair)...they too wouldn`t fit in the Khalistani concept of Sikh...the Sikh rights have been trampled, no doubt by the central government...and Sikh wounds have been festering since 1984...by hook or crook, we will get justice...but don`t be under any impression whatsoever that you can take advantage of these weaknesses within our country and community to create trouble...when you come here, I`ll take you to the Indian side of the Wagah border...and introduce you to a 6`5`` Sikh jawan...you can bring your taxi driver with you...you`ll understand what I am talking about...most of the so called Khalistanis might have suffered in that their family must have been affected in one way or the other...but they too killed and butchered...Bhindranwale wanted to exterminate Hindus from Punjab and his plan was that Hindus would exterminate Sikhs outside of Punjab...and that would lead to escalation of tension which would give him his Khalistan....and who was this Bhindranwale?...he was a protege of Giani Zail Singh (another paindoo by the way) who was reared by that b!tch Indira Gandhi...but then again Bhindranwale`s plan was not much different from...you know...but yeah, you defend it and so I guess you would defend Khalistanis too...I will read out excerpts from ``The Dynasty`` by S.S. Gill...you will get a better picture...Raj Babbar recently made a plea in the parliament begging the law authorities to let the Sikhs in exile (Canada in particular) come back to India...they asked him to make that plea on their behalf...but then again you are free to make your own conclusions

Prem Singh Bodagala

Sher Shah Suri Give me some time to reply...my finals are going on

I am very proud of the lady in my previous post...only I think her efforts are misguided

Sher Shah Suri Thought you might like to read this...this happened about 1 year ago...the name has been changed and the email addresses have been deleted....I was much more polite then.

Madam,

you seem to have made an assessment of me without even having met me or trying to know me or the views I hold. You have attacked me in a pretty offensive way, all based on an email you do not seem to have understood properly. Unfortunately all your education, humanitarian concern and sense of self-righteousness do not seem to have taught you the proper decorum of talking to a person for the first time or anytime for that matter. You urge me to be open-minded while you yourself have made pre-conceived notions of me. You have no idea whether I am a sikh, muslim or hindu, how I feel about religion, have no clue of how old I am and cannot possibly know from an email whether my parents are here, if I was born here or in India. You, without knowing me, cannot know how much or what I`ve done for humanitarian efforts, or my views on India and Pakistan, unless you are a psychic or something.

My email was addressed to the HSC people and not to you, if you got it, then that was not my intention. HSC (Hindu Student Council) has a reputation among Pakistanis for being a little too jingoistic about India, Indians and Hindus in particular. I received your fwd through HSC and my objection was due to the concern that this might be viewed by those Pakistanis who are sensitive and insecure when it comes to dealing with Hindus and India, as a means to undermine their country, culture or religion. I am aware of quite a few Pakistanis on the HSC mail list who are of that nature and I don`t blame them for that. The reason I wrote that email was that I did not want to create more bad blood that already exists between Indians and Pakistanis on campus. I did not want to give Pakistanis reason for suspecting HSC`s motives. I would not have any problems if the fwd was sent through any other Indian club, for then the motive may not seem to be to ridicule Pakistan.

However, I do stick to my position that Indians should stick to helping out Indians first and foremost and only then think of helping anyone else. I don`t agree that any money that can provide education and fulfill the bare necessities of millions of needy Indians should go to helping educate the women of a country that considers most Indians as infidels and destined for hell. Noble that your intentions are, you are not in touch with reality. Talking about the equality of human nature and needs makes one feel good and if the world was an utopia, then everyone would actually consider everyone else as equals. Maybe you don`t know this yet, Pakistanis do not consider us as their equals. Go to any PSA meeting and after wading through the pleasantries, the nature of Pakistani-Indian relationship becomes evident. I wish that weren`t so, but that is the case. Don`t go and form another preconceived notion that I hate Muslims. I don`t. I love all Indians and Muslims happen to number around 130 million of them. I don`t believe in the fake, insincere and nostalgic nonsense that goes on when Indians and Pakistanis meet. No one really means what they say and people are only kidding themselves when they say that Indians and Pakistanis afterall look alike, dress the same, eat the same food and all the other cliche stuff. Indians and Pakistanis should be able to love each other for what they are, whole heartedly without any pre-conditions or material gains. All this sweettalk about Pakistanis admiring us because we gave them a few dollars doesn`t hold unless Pakistanis and Pakistani society love and appreciate Indians for what we really are, Hindu, Sikh, Muslim or any other community Indians belong to. This is true the other way around too. Hope you can appreciate, if that is possible, other peoples` opinions and you can come out of the sense of self-importance you seem to attach to yourself and your opinions.

Prem S. Bodagala


Subject: Re: To Prem and anyone else who has a problem with the Fatima Jinnah University donation fwd.
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:56:09 -0400 (EDT)

excuse me...
whether we donate to pakistan or india, the main point is to help out. i
am a humanitarian and I believe in helping out anyone who is in
trouble...whether that person be a sikh, hindu, or muslim. The main reason
why i have sent this mass e-mail out is because the literacy rate for
women in pakistan is extremely low (in comparison to India) and donating
to a graduate school like Fatima Jinnah can only improve conditions, set
out opportunities, and better educate women. Not only am I a humanitarian
but also a women`s right activist who is willing to go to any extreme to
help out her fellow sisters around the globe. In addition, I am fully
aware that India has problems and I have given generous charities for
foundations there as well as organize fundraisers and shows for the needy
in India. As a matter of fact, I am currently working on a cultural show
called CRY to raise funds for child laborers in India, so dont
give me this bull s * *t that I have to stick to India`s concerns and not
the concerns of our ``neighbors.`` Quite frankily, I really dont understand
why you people have to make everything out to be india vs. pakistan...get over ur f * * * * animosity towards them and start being open minded. Needless
to be reminded, we do not live in India and we are not our parents and if
u still have this urge to discriminate based on religion...well my friend
you are a major fanatic. For once think about people and their needs and
not their background, race, or religion. I`m sure if this was an e-mail
concerning Somalians, you people would show greater sympathy towards them.
As a last note, I would like to add that pakistani`s will not hate us
more but instead admire us for our desire to help out the conditions of
their country. In fact, i have been getting nothing but positive feedback
from pakistani people and their profound admiration, gratitude, and
sincerity towards my work. they have commended me for my efforts and have
promised to donate for the next Indian/Pakistani/or any other kind of
donation i begin to work on. And even if there are pakistanis who do not
appreciate the motivation behind my work or any other indian, that does
not make me feel my efforts have gone to waste. Instead, I feel I am doing
doing something good and the right people will recognize that while the
narrow-minded people will be at loss. So get over your
misconception and show some comnpassion towards humaitarian efforts.

(Name has been deleted)


On Mon, 24 Apr 2000, Prem Bodagala wrote:

This is to the HSC people:

By sending out an article that obviously doesn`t portray Pakistan in a
flattering light(poor conditions in Pakistan), HSC might seem petty to
Pakistanis and others who will not appreciate the possible genuine concern
behind the email...and it is not as if India doesn`t have problems of her
own...it is a double edged sword...Pakistanis will hate us more and India
doesn`t benefit(by giving to Pakistani poor and not the INdian poor)....lets
stick to our own concerns and not go about helping neighbours who don`t
appreciate us anyways

Prem S. Bodagala



To: hscrutgers@egroups.com
Subject: [hscrutgers] Re: Fatima Jinnah University donation-please read and
send (fwd)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 22:14:09 -0400 (EDT)




Often times it is easy to take the opportunity that we are given or have
access to for granted without considering how fortunate we in fact are.
Education, for example, is something that we as students obtain and look
at as being part of the expected course of events in our lives. In
Pakistan, however, women have not been fortunate enough to seek an
opportunity to continue their education onto graduate school. For
example, Tauseef Fatima a 25 year-old woman, begged her parents for a
chance to earn a master`s degree in education at the Fatima Jinnah Women
University (Rawalpindi Journal, New York Times- August 1999). The Fatima
Jinnah Womens University was founded in 1998 as the first
research-oriented graduate school for women. The tuition earned at this
school amounts to $150 and most of the students are from lower-middle
class families. Both the faculty and staff members of this school are
very minimal with salaries less than average. The economic status
in Pakistan is very poor and women are becoming more and more needed in
the job market today. Confirming this fact, one graduate student states,
``Pakistan is suffering economic problems...so the women must work``
(Rawalpindi Journal,New York Times-August 1999). This Graduate University
is in desperate need of funds to create an endowment in order to purchase
text books,instructional equipment, and scholarships. Please consider a donation to the Fatima Jinnah Women University to help make a difference
in the education of Pakistani women.Checks can be made payable to the
Fatima Jinnah University and sent to 25231 Dpo Way, Douglass College.
________________________________________________________________________
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Sher Shah Suri YLH


oh Geez look who`s pointing fingers!!!...on chowk itself, not so long ago, an article mentioned that the ancient temple related to Prahlad and the festival Holi, in Multan, was destroyed by Paki bigots...Shia mosques are regularly attacked...Hindu girls are abducted regularly in Sindh and Baluchistan...your national assembly does not vote against honour killigns...please, the list is endless...I never brought these up, because the Indian record is no beacon...but for filthy Pakis to point fingers at India, while they sh!t in their pants and all around their houses is the height of hypocrisy...so now we go back to Ranjit Singh do we?...you are judging India by what Ranjit Singh did?...where is all that bullcrap that you post regularly about history?...in any case, be glad that Ranjit Singh only did what he did...if it was me, I would have gutted every mosque that Aurangzeb built and made them breeding houses for pigs, for what Aurangzeb did to Sikhs...don`t provoke me YASSER...you`ve only seen my friendship...you say that me mentioning Ali`s tomb was mischievous...now you get ooh so worked up because you think I am insinuating shia vs sunni conflict...you did the exact same thing when you say Indian Muslim heritage culture is threatened in India...why the double standards?...one law for you and one for me?...all I am asking is, shut the up about India and mind your own ing business...you lost the right to speak about India in 1947.

And as for Buddhism in India, maybe you haven`t heard, one of the greatest universities ( with one of the greatest libraries) of its time, Nalanda in Bihar, burnt for days when Muslim invaders set it on fire...Buddhism was given a death blow in India by Islam because Muslims thought the ochre robe wearing Buddhist monks were Brahmins and butchered them...without the monks, upon whom the Buddhist laymen were completely dependent upon, Buddhism withered...I know that Paki bigots will not believe me...go sit in Prof. Chan`s Buddhism class in Rutgers...it is taught in the summer also...surely you must know that most of Central Asia was once Buddhist...today, it is Muslim...what happend there?...where are their viharas?...Do you know that Bukhara is supposed to have got its name from Vihara?... Have you heard about Bodh Gaya in Bihar, Nagarjuna Konda in my own Andhra?...The Indian govt. moved the Buddhist monuments at Nagarjuna Konda, stone by stone to a nearby hill to save them from dam waters...we are leagues ahead of Pakis when it comes to saving our culture...Babri Masjid was unfortunate...but for Pakis to use it to justify their existence after 40 + years like they did in that pathetic film called Jinnah is laughable...treat me exactly the way you like to be treated...be my friend and I`ll do anything for friendship...treat me as an enemy and I`ll be sawa laakh as much as any enemy

Sher Shah Suri YLH


oh Geez look who`s pointing fingers!!!...on chowk itself, not so long ago, an article mentioned that the ancient temple related to Prahlad and the festival Holi, in Multan, was destroyed by Paki bigots...Shia mosques are regularly attacked...Hindu girls are abducted regularly in Sindh and Baluchistan...your national assembly does not vote against honour killigns...please, the list is endless...I never brought these up, because the Indian record is no beacon...but for filthy Pakis to point fingers at India, while they sh!t in their pants and all around their houses is the height of hypocrisy...so now we go back to Ranjit Singh do we?...you are judging India by what Ranjit Singh did?...where is all that bullcrap that you post regularly about history?...in any case, be glad that Ranjit Singh only did what he did...if it was me, I would have gutted every mosque that Aurangzeb built and made them breeding houses for pigs, for what Aurangzeb did to Sikhs...don`t provoke me YASSER...you`ve only seen my friendship...you say that me mentioning Ali`s tomb was mischievous...now you get ooh so worked up because you think I am insinuating shia vs sunni conflict...you did the exact same thing when you say Indian Muslim heritage culture is threatened in India...why the double standards?...one law for you and one for me?...all I am asking is, shut the f