The Bollywood Effect – is Reema the next Rani? re: urstruly # 34

Videos and VCRs have become almost obsolete in India...it is very rare nowadays to see stores renting video cassettes...at least this is the case in Bangalore...it is mostly VCDs now...most VCDs are rented and sold illegally in India and every now and then there is a huge drive to arrest characters involved in this underground racket. But I think it is just a naam-ke-vaaste exercise designed to keep the movie industry happy. It is a lucrative racket with foreign connections (Dubai and Pakistan) and I think for such a large network to thrive successfully, the racket obviously has political connections. So naturally the naam-ke-vaaste exercises end up being what they are. For some reason, Aamir Khan movies seem to be more successful at not getting pirated. Also nowadays, Hindi movies come out officially on DVD and VCD much earlier than they used to. Like within a few weeks of their theatre release. This trend seems to be global as I notice the same thing with Hollywood movies too. Kazaa and other file sharing devices seem to have distributing companies running for cover.

Watching movies in cinema halls is treated as an experience in India rather than simply watching a movie. The lutf of this ``experience`` is considered watching a movie on a big screen with good sound in total darkness and privacy sitting in an air conditioned environment, conditions unavailable to most Indians in their daily lives. It is also a way for couples to get some alone time, away from joint families. Ticket prices in Bangalore are kind of biased, with English being most expensive at Rs. 75 in AC, Hindi at Rs. 40 in AC and Kannada at Rs. 15. For some strange reason, a city the size of Delhi has only about 20 odd cinema halls. However the PVR chain cinema halls are world-class, and kinda expensive at Rs. 100 a ticket. (This was 2 years ago).

regards

Kabuli

The Bollywood Effect – is Reema the next Rani? re: 38 plats8

my comments were in response to your statement:

``Yes, icons they were, but actors they weren`t``.

I just wanted to show with the help of an example that thespians like NTR are considered very good actors. This is not to say that they did not make crappy films. But the fact remains that NTR and some other South Indian actors were and are very good. There are other South Indian superstars such as Balakrishna and the many Rajkumar sons (these sons by the way are among the the ugliest specimens of the human species) who though popular, will never be in the same league as their fathers.

I never said that ALL South Indian films are good. This is what I said:

`` I think regional movies have done very well compared to Bollywood. Almost every national award (not filmfare mind you, these are the national awards we are talking about here) goes to regional films. Bollywood unashamedly steals, copies and plagiarises from regional movies, especially those from the South.``

I was referring to regional movies, under which South Indian movies also occupy a distinguished place. I was never referring to the run of the mill regional movies, but to the significant # of well-made, thought-provoking ones that tend to be made originally in the vernacular languages. I do agree with how however that Bengalis seem to be ahead of everyone else in making good vernacular-regional cinema.

regards

Kabuli

The Bollywood Effect – is Reema the next Rani? Following is a link to a list all the Dadasaheb Phalke awards winners and the President`s Gold Medal (Swarna Kamal) winners. Read it and think what you will.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/nfa/storypage-report.htm

re: rajsinghi1 # 40 & 41

I think regional cinema is doing pretty well without the need for the Central Govt. to ``encourage, motivate and add commercial success too to the movies.``. Vernacular cinema does not suffer from a lack of commercial success and is quite popular, even the ``arty`` ones. This is in contrast to Bollywood ``art`` movies which bomb more often than not.

``By the way, lot of politics is involved when it comes to awarding National awards to movies in India. IIRC only few years ago there was big controversy on this and many things came out in the open. So National award is not necessarily a yardstick to measure whether movies made in particular language are good or bad.``

What is not affected by corruption and nepotism in India?...do you mean to say that vernacular cinema has more Godfathers than Bollywood? why would that be the case when the movers and shakers of Bollywood command such power and influence. Bollywood, with its vast resources and ties to the vast Hindi Cow belt, could just buy the awards. I think that vernacular cinema wins national awards inspite of the nepotism and corruption. It is a recognition of the lifelong achievement and service of Dada Saheb Phalke award winners to cinema.

The hue and cry you mention vis-a-vis the national awards was when Anil Kapoor, a Bollywood actor, got the national award for Pukar, a jingoistic Hindi film. That was when discerning cinemaphiles cried foul. This was during the Cow-belt rule of the BJP at the centre.

(``And yes, A.R. Rahman and more importantly his guru, Ilayaraja have no peers in the North.``

Would you care to explain what is meant by the above? What is so special about A R Rahman`s music which has not been found in the music in the likes of Naushad, Jaidev, OP Nayyar and some more? How A R Rahman`s music is superior to the music of few names mentioned before, or his knowledge of music more deep or better?)


I used the term peer as in music directors working today. Naushad, Jaidev, OP Nayyar were great; I only wish they were still around, so that cheats like Anu Malik wouldnt be in business.

I think it is very rare for vernacular cinema to copy Bollywood plots, though I did recognise in my earlier posts that Bollywood trends are copied by regional cinema, which I think is a good thing.

I agree with you that Indians have a lot more choice and are creative when it comes to clothing. I was just highlighting the fact that Pakistanis are a lot more creative and seem to work very well with what in effect has become their `awami` dress.

And at the risk of offending my Pakistani friends, I have yet to taste good Pakistani biryani. Having lived in Hyderabad for a few years, nothing compares to the biryani found in the houses and restaurants of that city. Pakistani biryani is almost always greasy and sticky.

regards,

Kabuli

The Bollywood Effect – is Reema the next Rani? re: plats8 # 20

(``South has its own huge movie industry and has produced icons like Sivaji Ganeshan,
NTR, Raj Kumar etc``

Yes, icons they were, but actors they weren`t.)

I think the entire landmass south of the Vindhyas would disagree with you on that. Physically attractive though some of them might not be, Southern actors such as Savithri, NTR, ANR, MGR, Mohanlal, Muhammad Kutty (aka Mammooty), Sivaji Ganesan etc are thespian titans. Please tell me if you have seen any movies of NTR where he plays a mythological character. Illiterate people in rural Andhra were so mesmerised by his portrayals of Rama, Krishna, Arjuna etc, that they used to cut out his movie posters (where he is dressed up as mythological characters) and hang the posters in their shrines. If you have the time and interest, definitely check out Bhoo-Kailas where NTR plays Ravana. Keeping aside South Indian sympathy for Ravana, NTR managers to portray the oft-maligned and misunderstood Ravana as a compassionate son, tender lover, fastidious bhakta and King.

I think regional movies have done very well compared to Bollywood. Almost every national award (not filmfare mind you, these are the national awards we are talking about here) goes to regional films. Bollywood unashamedly steals, copies and plagiarises from regional movies, especially those from the South. Remember all the Anil Kapoor hits which regularly win filmare awards?...almost everyone of them (Woh Saat Din his debut film with Padmini Kolhapure, Virasat, Eeshwar, Beta,) is a remake of Telugu/Tamil films.

regards

Kabuli

Train to Pakistan 2004: La, Hore? I too always wondered about the karas that I have seen some Pakistanis wear...I observed that Pakistani mechanics seem to take obvious pride in their work. This was something novel for me because Indian mechanics, in my experience, try to take the customer for a ride. When I was in Lahore, the exhaust system of my good friend`s Honda Civic fell off due to the combination of rash driving and tall speed bumpers. So we picked up the parts and slowly drove to the nearest mechanic. The head mechanic dropped everything he was doing and soldered the part back in about 20 minutes. He chatted with us for a couple of minutes and we told him that we were studying abroad, and were home for holidays. He refused to take money from my friend inspite of repeated offering. All this, when he did not know that I am an Indian. It was genuine and sincere and was not the hospitality pressure that he might otherwise have felt. He seemed to relish the fact that he was able to help and in a non-Indian way, seemed to be proud of the success ( a Honda Civic is apparently a big thing in Pakistan) achieved by a complete stranger. It is one of my best memories of Pakistan.

regards

Kabuli

The Bollywood Effect – is Reema the next Rani? re: rsridhar # 18

just for the record, I have nothing against Bollywood influencing Southern movies...in a way it is good, because it encourages Southern movie makers to package their movies better, in terms of actors looking younger and fitter. You and I seem to agree that the storylines of southern movies are generally better and many of these hit Southern movies get remade in Hindi. K.Vishwanath and K. Balachander are two directors who have made and continue to make amazing movies in Telugu and Tamil. There are Malayalam directors who have done pioneering and path-breaking work. And yes, A.R. Rahman and more importantly his guru, Ilayaraja have no peers in the North. In my earlier post I was just pointing out that Southerners (as in people living in the South, not movie characters) have adopted certain things from Bollywood movies, such as wearing Shalwar Kameez (it is another matter that they are terribly tailored and look awful, Pakistani designers seem to do a million creative and amazing things with something as simple as Shalwar Kameez)...unmarried girls before the 90s used to wear something known as Onis, now almost everybody atleast in urban areas wear Shalwar Kameez (popularly known as Punjabi Suits in the South). Another thing I found hilarious in one Southern movie was a Bhangra number (with ugly readymade turbans; it really is a travesty when something as majestic and regal as a Sikh turban is turned into a commercialised, ready-made trinket), something that is becoming more and more common due to the heavy doses of Punjabi`yat` in Bollywood movies from the 90s up until now.

Vis-a-vis Southern populist superstars, my father is a huge fan of Sivaji Ganesan. But I always found him to go a little over-the-top in his movies. But yes, he was very talented and a great actor.

regards

Kabuli

The Bollywood Effect – is Reema the next Rani? Hi Zainab,

This phenomenon occurs in India also...as in North Indian culture ``invading`` South India and other parts of India...though vernacular cinema is strong and popular in South India, it has to be admitted that Bollywood movies are better packaged with more attractive actors...South Indian movies, though original and some with excellent storylines(many, if not most Bollywood movies are remakes of movies from the South), are not really that well packaged, what with overweight female actors and wig-wearing baldy and old populist male superstars...so it is only natural that Bollywood movies set the trends...remember that shalwar kameez was not really popular in South India even around fifteen years ago. But now almost every unmarried woman almost exclusively wears them. I have nothing against shalwar kameez, in fact if cut properly, it can be a beautiful ornament, but South Indian dresses such as Onis are rarely seen nowadays. Even this so called Bollywood/``Indian`` culture can be restricted to only certain groups of people in India. Observe the last names in almost all the movies and dramas. The characters are almost all from Kayasth and Punjabi Khatri communities what with the Mishras, Malhotras, Kapoors, Bhatias etc. Where are the Gujars, Jats, Yadavs, Dalits, Ahirs, Reddys, Mahars, Naidus, Gowdas, Lingayats, Tribals etc of India who form the vast majority?...the ``Indian`` culture that is portrayed in Indian media is in fact the culture of just a few groups such as Khatris and Kayasths. Even if other groups are portrayed, it is usually in the form of comic relief, for example Parsis, Madrasis (Bollywood term for ALL South Indians) and Sikhs. Anglo-Indians are usually portrayed as drunkards, loose etcetera, etcetera...Now just spare a thought or two for North-Eastern Indians, who dont so much as get a mention in ``Indian`` media...the closest thing you might have seen is maybe a Shaab salaaming Gurkha...I`m sure 9.95 out of 10 Indians would not be able to name the capitals of the seven north-eastern states...that is how much exposure they get in Indian media...So friend, relax, you are in good company... ``Indian`` culture portrayed in Indian media frustrates and challenges many Indian cultures and Indian identities. As someone has already said on this thread, one way to counter this ``invasion`` is to develop niche programs. Pakistani music bands have always set the trend in South Asia, what with the Hassan siblings, Vital Signs, Strings, Junoon etc. Though it has always amused me when my Pakistani friends feel outraged when they hear Indian artists perform what they claim as Pakistani songs: songs which have been part of our shared heritage for hundreds of years; marriage songs for example...Coming back to niche programs, Pakistani dramas of old were excellent...there is a Pakistani hole-in-the-wall restaurant where I often get take out from, in Houston...the other day, while waiting for my order, I was watching what looked like a partition era TV serial on GEO channel...the portrayal of Hindus and Sikhs on that program can be described sadly as nothing but bigotry and hatred. Far from following in the glorious footsteps of Tanhaayiyaan, Kasak etc, Pakistani Drama seems to be going in the opposite direction...but then again it was just one show and I maybe wrong...anyways, in India, Malayalam cinema is very powerful and often has first dibs on National Cinema awards...Sikhs have found their own niche through original and rehashed versions of centuries old Punjabi folk

regards

Kabuli

The Three Queens Hi Revathy

really loved this...new way to look at the life of a woman so ridiculed and despised in general...its always more interesting to look at things from the point of view of the underdog...Sakuni in the Mahabharata is similar to Manthara in Ramayana...physical deformity and poisoning minds and all...wonder what his side of the story would be like...anyway, loved your story...I realize artistic liberty and all, but wasn`t Kaikeyi older than Sumitra?...and isn`t Rajgriha in Bihar?...just curious

best regards

Kabuli

The Mystery of South India re: 125

dost-mittar

I am not sure if there is a tradition of keeping family trees in the South. However, during marriage times, while fixing up couples, the family priests and elders go to extremely great lengths to ensure that the couple are not already related to each other in ways that are not permissable. They do this by cross checking their relations going back many generations. This checking is pretty comprehensive and exhaustive. For them to do this, they would have to have records of their ancestors going back a long way. On many occassions, matches are not made because a link is found between the couple many generations ago. However, it is a different matter that uncles can marry their nieces (if the age difference is within reasonable limits; it is not an uncle`s right to claim his niece) and people marry their father`s sister`s kids or mother`s brother`s kids (I`m sorry...I do not know a simpler way of saying this). I have seen pretty tragic consequences of this practice of intermarrying. I think keeping in view the health of future generations, this practice should be outlawed, just like child marriages and sati.

regards

Kabuli

Twilight of a Passionate Love Affair great article...really enjoyed it...didnt want it to end...and then I read the interacts...it was only then that I realized that you are Romair...huge difference in your interacts and articles...I like Umair Raja more than Romair

regards

Kabuli

P.S. I wanted to study in Vancouver...dad disagreed...makes me think what might have been if I had gone to UBC.

Indian Womb, Pakistani Soil Hi Farzana

``And how conservative could her parents possibly be if they sent her to study medicine in Ukraine in 1995, when she was barely 16? ``

I asked myself the exact same thing when I first read about this couple on some website. I just think Dr. Hafsa is appealing to the religious sensibilities of the Pakistani authorities because she seems to have given up on all other possibilities. Her strategy seems to appeal to the authorities, that she, a Muslim woman will be persecuted upon her arrival in India by her family and society, and thus appeal to the Islamic righteousness of Pakistani authorities. Though this seems manupulative and immoral on the surface (because she is leading Pakistanis to believe that converts to Islam are killed in India, which is simply not true), I think any mother would resort to the same course of action in order to be with her child and husband. I would not be surprised if her own parents asked her to take this course of action, just so that she can stay in Pakistan with her family. So I wish Dr. Hafsa all the best in trying to stay in Pakistan and become a Pakistani citizen.

regards

Kabuli

The Mystery of South India re: # 71 Jang

There were and are still a lot of Buddhist monuments in the South. Amaravati and Nagarjunakonda, both in Andhra, come to mind. Amaravati is particularly beautiful with many stupas and viharas. Like I have said before, Bodhi Dharma, the famous Buddhist monk, was from Kerala and he travelled to China upon the invitation of the Chinese Emperor, set up the temple of Shaolin and helped spread Buddhism there. Do a quick search on google and you will come up with dozens of links. In the modern age, Hyderabad has one of the biggest Buddha statues in the world.

Apart from Buddhism, Jainism also had a huge following in the South, particularly Karnataka. I think this is one of the reasons for the vegetarianism of a proportianately large number of Kannadigas. Chandragiri in Andhra was another Jain pilgrimage place, so was Amaravati. Sravanabelagola in Karnataka is particularly famous. Satavahanas, who ruled the Indian peninsula for around 500 years from (250 B.C.E. to 250 A.D.) were tolerant of Buddhism. In one of the links suggested by SameerJB, I read that Nagarjuna of Nagarjunakonda in Andhra, was at the court of Kanishka at Purushpura (modern Peshawar). My Buddhist professor regards Nagarjuna as one of the greatest Buddhist philosophers after Buddha himself. The folowing are just some of the many links available on the net.


http://www.ourkarnataka.com/states/history/historyofkarnataka9.htm

http://www.britac.ac.uk/institutes/SSAS/project.html

The South (in Tamil Nadu) was in fact the last pocket in India where ancient Indian Buddhism survived into modern times. So to answer your question, no, the South was NOT a big forest during the golden age of Buddhist building.

regards

Kabuli

The Mystery of South India re: 69 echoboom

It is a misconception that all South Indians are Shaivites. As I have been saying, South India is very diverse and there are many religious traditions and practices in the South. Unfortunately, other people (including Northern countrymen) know little about the South or even care, and blanket everyone as Madrasis, who by the way in their opinion are mostly dhoti clad Tamil Brahmins, also very untrue. It is particularly frustrating when people read poorly written travel books and make up their minds about what a true ``South Indian`` is or supposed to be, without ever having visited the South or bothering to understand them.

Among Tamils themselves, there are Shaivites and Vaishnavites. The Nannayar saints of the Sangam period (which began in the pre-Christian era and is the classical Tamil period) were Shaivites and the Alvar saints were Vaishnavites. Both streams are highly respected and venerated in present-day Tamil Nadu. Thyagaraja, without whom, Carnatic Music would be non-existent was a devotee of Krishna. It is interesting that Thyagaraja was an Andhra, who migrated to Tamil Nadu after the sack of the Vijayanagar empire by Bahmanis. Tamil Nadu then was still under Hindu power. He wrote in both Tamil and Telugu. M.S. SubbaLakshmi, one of the greatest, if not the greatest exponent of Carnatic music today, sings both Telugu and Tamil Thyagaraja Kirtanas devoted to Krishna.

As much as I know and have observed, most of Andhra is devoted to the incarnations of Vishnu, the most important being the temple of Balaji at Tirupati. Though Shiva is also very important in Andhra. In fact no household I have been to or ever seen have just either the Vaishnavite or Shaivite deities. Traditional South Indian households have pictures of the Hindu pantheon (including Shaivite, Vaishnavite and Neutral deities) running along the walls of their living room. If done tastefully, this can be very beautiful.

Kerala Hindus are mostly devotees of Krishna and Ayyappa. Ayyappa interestingly, is result of the union between Shiva and a female incarnation (Mohini) of Vishnu. So I guess it is an intermingling of the two schools. The important temples in Kerala are Guruvayvoor (sp?) devoted to Krishna and Sabari Malai devoted to Ayyappa.

I do not know much about Karnataka Hindus to comment about them. However the most important deity in Mysore is Chamundeswari, who I think is a consort of Shiva.

For the truly orthodox devotees of either schools, I guess they can be identified by the way they wear their tilaks on their foreheads, if at all, they wear them. Shaivites run their fingers across their forehead with ash, while the Vaishnavites wear their tilaks in the form of a V just above their eyesbrows. Ancient kings might have favored one faction over the other, because all royal households had a royal deity, which they patronised. So I guess who had the upper hand depeneded upon which school the royal deity happened to be a member of.

Shaivite and Vaishnavite dont automatically translate into Ram and Ravan camps. Ram was an incarnation of Vishnu and Ravana was a devotee of Shiva. So Ram and Ravan are not an apt comparison. Most South Indian language histories start with the translations of the Mahabharata and Ramayana into their respective language. Both are tests glorifying Vishnu. However it is significant that the Southern translations of Ramayana are more balanced in their narration. Some virtues of Ravana are explained and Ravana in general is portrayed as more macho and picture of masculinity. Rama is sometimes portrayed as a wimp. Especially his killing of Vali by deceit is frowned upon.

I do not know much about the origin of the scripts and the relationship with the islands.

As for the food, like I have explained before, South Indian food is very diverse. Kannadiga food (read Kannadiga food in Bangalore), I found to be very bland. There is no hotness, but some of their dishes can be sour, such as Puliyogaraye. However Karanataka itself is very diverse with Coorgi food (yummy and spicy Pork preparations), Manalorean food (awesome seafood), Bunt food (coastal Hindu food), North Karnataka (with a heavy Marathi influence) and Udupi Brahmin food. So you see there is a huge difference.

Andhra food relies heavily on meat, poultry and seadfood. Almost everything is spicy. The dishes I like the most are toor dal mixed with spinach and tarka, with either rice or bajra roti, with a side dish of prawns or dried mutton pepper fry. None of the above mentioned dishes are sour. Andhra Pachadis cannot be translated as pickles, but as chutneys. They mostly have a peanut base or green leafy base. And are sufficiently spiced up. Pickles are also popular, and yes, some Andhra pickles and chutneys have a sour taste.

I dont think the different food signify any kind of nationalisms.

regards

Kabuli

The Mystery of South India re: 60 dost-mittar

what I meant was that it is mandatory for Hindus visiting Sabari Malai to first visit the Muslim shrine on their way to the top of the hill. Hindus in other parts of India visit dargahs and mosques, but I do not think it is mandatory in those areas. It is absolutely voluntary. But for the pilgrimage to Sabari Malai to be fruitful, it is a MUST, MANDATORY, that they visit the Muslim shrine first.

It is altogether an entirely different matter that only males and little girls and old women are allowed on the pilgrimage. Women who have periods, I believe, are not permitted on the pilgrimage. The pilgrimage in Andhra is known as ``Mala``, a kind of Hindu Haj and there are many rules that have to be observed before the actualy journey to Sabari Malai. The entire Mala period lasts for a few months I think, while the actual trip to Sabari Malai is only a couple of weeks. The rules for example are that the men must maintain a strict vegetarian diet and the food should not be cooked in the same untensils in which meat might be cooked. The men can only wear black. They are not allowed to wear any kind of footwear. They walk barefoot on all kinds of road surfaces and it can get pretty hot. They have to main high standards of personal hygiene. Shot hair and all that.

As for Muslims visiting Hindu shrines, though there are exceptions, I think it is the case of one way traffic of Hindus visiting Muslim shrines. This maybe due to the monotheistic compulsions of Muslims or the case that they are not welcome in temples due to the outright bigotry of temple authorities.

The ninth incarnation of Vishnu, Balaji, is said to have had a second wife who grew up in a Muslim Royal household. She is said to have asked Balaji to have his devotees shave their heads when they visit his temple, ala Muslim pilgrims at Haj. As an aside, tons of hair is collected every year at Tirupati and is processed into wigs. These wigs until recently used to be exported for the adornment of Orthodox Jewish women. Jewish priests recently declared that these wigs as unacceptable because they are made from the hair of idol worshippers.

Speaking of the Druze, though they speak Arabic, they are not connected with Islam anymore. They were Muslims initially, but over the course of history, have become a separate religion. The Druze situation is unlike that of the Ahmedis, where the Ahmedis insist they ar Muslims while the clerics say they are not. The Druze have their own rituals and an all knowing powerful priest (kind of like the Syedna of the Bohris) and do not beat their breasts for not being considered Muslims.

regards,

Kabuli

The Mystery of South India re # 49

Aleph Null,

The temple of Shaolin, which is like the headquarters of martial arts, is widely believed by many historians to have been established by Bodhi Dharma, a Buddhist monk from Kerala. I think Kalaripayattu and Chinese martial arts are cousins. Even wall meditation, a form of meditation, where a point on the wall is used to obtain dhyana, is believed to have been articulted by Bodhi Dharma.

Kerala is probably the best example of tolerance and diversity from among the South Indian states. The fact that Hindu pilgrims who visit Sabari Malai MUST visit the mosque first before climbing the hill, speaks volumes about the tradition and tolerance of Kerala.

Kerala boasts of many other famous personalities, but my favourite among the present lot is Jesudas. Arundhati Roy is a close second...now only if she didnt indulge in self-promotion.

regards

Kabuli

The Mystery of South India re: SameerJB

Ujjain I think falls in Madhya Pradesh and historically has not been considered part of the South. Ujjaini kings claimed descent from either the sun or the moon, which I think kings from South India did not. You are right, Rajaraja was the Chola king who was a bloodthirsty conquerer but a great builder as well (probably to appease his Gods and cover up his guilt). However this building activity employed thousands too. It was the stone slab on top of one of his temples that weighed tons and had to be installed by building a causeway and slowly moved inch by inch from the quarry by placing tree trunks underneath it. Elephants were used to pull the massive stone.

As regards Kerala, the historian that travelled with the Chinese Muslim admiral Zheng He, was fascinated by the similarities between the cultures of China and Cochin. Both civilizations placed importance on trade rather than war and this was beneficial for both. It is interesting that while the chinese fleet invaded Sri Lanka on the way, and made the Lankan king a prisoner, they did not feel a need to go to war with the king of Cochin.

I thought the Scythians (Sakas) did not confine themselves to just the Punjab and did not mind conquering regions outside the Punjab, much less adopting a Punjabi identity. They even adopted Indian religion and had Hindu names. I was also wondering if Kushans and Sakas are the same or if they are a different tribe.

regards

Kabuli