The Invisible Men Get over it and integrate you over privilaged Paki... otherwise go join the rest of the hoard that is bleeding our country... na idhar ke na udhar ke... i think over privilaged Pakis should just come to the west for shopping trips and holidays... its the rest of us who can actually live in the west and for the most part (barring the fundos) can integrate into it well... no matter where you are you make your life as materialistc or as spiritual as you want... happiness comes from you not from another being or thing... Nirvan can be reached in NYC, London or under some peepal tree... its entirely up to you... `integrate nahii ho saka` a BS excuse if i ever heard one...

Talibanization of Pakistan so what are ur suggestions for the reversal?

With or Without Musharraf – A Mohajir’s Perspective Dost ji

Is it not true that Punjabi Hindus also took to learning Hindi and writing Punjabi in Devanagri? The only ones really being educated in Punjabi were the Sikh - who are actually a minority within the whole of Punjab (West + East + Haryana)

With or Without Musharraf – A Mohajir’s Perspective Dost Ji,

And what of the forced shutting down of Punjabi Newspapers and Magazines by the govt. early on in Pakistan`s history? There was no other option but to learn in Urdu, as nothing was taught in Punjabi, i know that in the villages at least learning Urdu is a bane, and is seen as such cause no one speaks in it on a daily basis.

With or Without Musharraf – A Mohajir’s Perspective So basically you want to split Pakistan up!

Do you really think our in charge Mohajir Pres and PM will allow that? Its fine that you want to take all the `other` ethnicities `with` you wherever you go in Karachi, but is that dependent on them speaking Urdu?

Here is an article about school kids an language in Pakistan and this is what it says about Urdu speakers and KHI

http://www.dawn.com/2007/04/11/op.htm#2


Language question in education

By Zubeida Mustafa

...........In 1972, language riots took place in Karachi when the “new Sindhis” were unwilling to recognise the right of the people of Sindh to use Sindhi as the language of the government. The alienation that was caused ran deep and has still not been bridged.....

And i truly dont beleive that the millions of Punjabi ppl in Karachi would be safe from people like you who have nothing but utter contempt and hatred for Punjabi ppl. You have shown it many times on this board... Sad thing is you`re not the only one there are many rascist mohajirs like you in Karachi...

Your article paints your people as victims and that you are the only ones that have given something up for Pakistan, but was it not your language, Urdu that is enforced on the rest of Pakistan? The Punjabi people have given up too much for Pakistan, the worst thing we gave up was our language, and that was our stupidist mistake, from the same article cited above.

...The revised White Paper takes note of the hurdles that will be faced in adopting the mother tongue as a medium of instruction in the early years of learning. It concedes that “a number of local languages, including Punjabi and Balochi, have never been formally used as medium of instruction and, therefore, it would take some time and effort to get them on the ground, especially the preparation of textbooks in these languages will take some doing.”....

I dont hate you, or personally want to attack you, but your article needs a balancing, you need to be told other people stories who live in your country. But you and i both live outside of Pakistan, and the fact is that the country and especially the people all along the Indus river are so interlinked socially and economically now, that it would be very, very difficult to split the country up, what do you do with people who are half Punjabi and Sindhi? the country and most of the ethnicities have mixed now, you cant break them apart easily.

The fact is Pakistan is here, breaking it up is just going to create a Yugoslavia style situation. The only real alternative is to make it work, in this is not only our collective benefit, but benefits also our neighbours and the other SAARC countries.

Girls Gone Wild Yes Salim Aabey it is in Pencab... ama Pencap`in guneyindedir... yani that part that is often called Saraikistan (or whatever else they call it), that part that you have told us many times wants to get away from the `other` Punjab... khair Sindh mein bhi zara dekho, far worse goes on closer to Karachi, MukhtaraN Bibi had the guts to come out, shame the women in Sindh and Balochistan haven`t come out yet...

Khair wherever this sort of stuff happens its just pure evil and nasty and we should all speak out against, and condemn it together!!!

Girls Gone Wild LOL @ 210

On a little more serious note, all those who say the state didnt do anything to the Jamia girls becasue they were women, i would just like to remind those people of how the state treats women in Pakistan by reminding them of the time when our very own Asma Jehangir had her kameez ripped from behind by those very soldiers/police (same difference) who refused to go in and get the `fragile` girls of the JH. As well as this many female Human Rights (not political, but for human rights) activists were beaten and put in jail, and very badly manhandled by the police.

Soi would just like to put to rest the argument that our police didn`t do anything cause they were female.

Girls Gone Wild This is why Pakistan should be a Secular Republic, no religion in the state but the freedom to practice your religion how you want at home.

A religious state does not work, we have seen Pakistan and Isreal for the past 60 odd years in deep sh*t due to the fact they are religious states. I`m not sure but i remember reading somewhere here that even Nepal is no longer a Hindu state.

Religion as we have it today is more a curse than a blessing. I agree with Shandana 100% that these burqa clad ladies should be kept in check... tho i also agree with the author who mentioned the rich v`s poor thing... however in this case Mushy has kept out on purpose the secular parties, cause he knows they will landslide him any day in any election, and the Mullahs will be out and Burqa clad ladies will no longer be lifting sugar cane to beat the pimps!!!!


You forgot to mention the Pakistani women fighter pilots!!!


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4861666.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4533367.stm

A Nation Reborn I am glad to hear and see these things... thank God people are finally coming to the streets and showing their unhappiness in a more civil way as opposed to bombing and stuff... Like PMishra said people have an interest in society and want the civil institutions to become stronger, because now we realise the need of these strong institutions... all we have to do is look across the border and see the advantages of democracy and strongish institutions...

I`m happy that we can look across the border and compare our lot and that so many ppl in Pakistan are doing that... Mushy took the p*ss with what he did, and it was all too much... he should step down from one of his positions now... i hope Rana Bhagwandas can do something here... i hope the steam doesnt come out of the sails for this one, and the press keeps this issue alive and burning as well as the lawyers... Ameen!

A

Men in Khaki Salim

That reply was meant for Hamid Sahib anywayus, I`m not really bothered what you think, Urdu is no longer just your language it is the national language and therefore everyone in the country will know some of it at least to get by... but as English is being used more people will know Urdu but not give it as much importance... this is happening all over Pakistan and India in those areas where Urdu/Hindi isn`t the native language for ppl... i dont associate Urdu with mohajirs for us its simply a link language that links the various ppl together... what you think or dont think is of no concern to me or most other ppl...

Men in Khaki #49

`the fact of the matter is that most punjabis suffer from a deep sense of inferiority when they compare themselves to the `sophisticated` urdu-speaking people `

This is now changing... you will see in a generation or two people will be going back to Punjabi language... in my family at least my cousins dont speak Urdu in the house they only speak it at school or wherever it is required, but we never speak in Urdu to each other... From my frequent visits to Pak, i feel there seems to be bit of a Punjabi renaissance, this is also helped with the easing of visas for Punjabi ppl from India...

slowly Urdu will lose its prominence in Punjab as English takes over...

Men in Khaki President General Sahib has taken the p*ss this time... none of his supporters can even back him now... i think this is the beginning of the end for him... we need real democracy not dictators... he shouldn`t have done what he done and that too in the style he did it, to a respected Chief Justice...

It just shows he has no respect for any Pakistani institution and this has shattered the illusions of many... I am glad the Lawyers came out and am happy that there is at least one segment of Pakistani society that is ready to speak up against him and demonstrate on the streets...

Trapped, surrounded, quarantined or just reading too much into it? Arjun

Am not saying be scared cause Pakis will come to India to attack or anything like that... but can you imagine having an almost Afghan like situation on your border, and then even some people wanting parts of it to be unified again with India? No, thats soemthing you guys dont really want!

Trapped, surrounded, quarantined or just reading too much into it? Salim

(Have you ever noticed that the mainly Paki Punju Paki army has not occupied, looted, and killed in their own home province?)

Thats not quiet true remember what happened in Okara??? when the Generals took over innocent farmers lands illegally. Salim you may not know but all over Punjab these sort of things are happening by the Generals, my cousin works for the Water people who deal with irrigation and the water at Panjnad. A General ordered him to send some of the water to an desertified part of the country where he had bought land, my cousin refused saying it was the qouta of Punjab and Sindh provinces that he was taking away, and that there is no farmer in those desertified places. The general then had my cousin removed from his post and put him in Rahim Yaar Khan a million miles away from his family cause he refused to send water to where the general wanted... This sort of thing happens because the generals can do it and get away with it...

Trapped, surrounded, quarantined or just reading too much into it? Salim,

Most of Pakistan, Punjab included is ruled and manipulated by the Karachi and Lahore elites, who collude together to keep their rule cemented. Blaming Punjab as a province is wrong. The President, and Cheif of Army is from Karachi (he wants the big army budget) the PM is also from Karachi. If anything the Punjabi peasants can easily be lef to believe that its the Karachi `bhaiyyas` that are screwing them over!

Stop raving and ranting at Punjabi ppl, our province is the largest population wise therefore will be represented with larger numbers at every govt instition and dept. Your constant attacking one people of your nation shows your own insecurities towards them and is contributing to the very `failure` this article talks about.

What the choudharies are doing in PUnjab the Vadheras of Sindh, Sardars of Baluchistan, and Khans of Sarhad are doing in other parts of the country why do you never attack any of them?

Your blatant rascism is destructive for our national unity and progression.

Trapped, surrounded, quarantined or just reading too much into it? OK Indians... so say the world is turning its back and blah blah blah... and Pakistan fails, then what????

You guys ever thought of the fallout and what the consequenses will be for India? Do you think 170 Million Pakis on your western border without a country to call home is going to be good news for you???

Instead of sitting here and gloating, be scared, be very scared...

A strong democratic, secular Pakistan is in our interest, but more than this it is in your interest!!!

Help those who want your neighbours house to be stronger, cause if your neighbours house collapses, yours too will not escape unscathed!!!!

Think about it...