Get over the Victim Syndrome #132 by bulleya

“actually, he was significantly better than all of them, by any standard, secular or religious.......the rules and regulations he set down revolutionized a complete society.......their exact text may seem a bit out of date in the 21st century......but they were still ahead of what most of the world had till the 20th century.........not bad to be 1300 years ahead of your time........as i said give credit where it is due.....bilal a governor of a country in 7th century arabia........1400 years before usa elected one of a small state......do the comparison.... “

Why don’t you go back nearly a thousand years before Islam and you have Classical Greece, where science and scientific method took birth. They introduced the concept of democracy and practiced it in its purest form for hundreds of years. There are philosophers like Socrates, Plato and Aristotle. They laid the foundation for our education system the world over, the system of justice and of course politics and everything else. Beyond that you have Rome whose empire was larger then the Ottoman Empire. Even today America emulates Rome. Wasn’t it the revival of classical learning which brought about Renaissance for Muslim Spain and subsequently for Europe as well.

Now lets take a look at the Muslim revolution. The revolution that Islam brought about was in creating a perfect fighting force during the centuries when Rome and Persia were declining. The force was based upon an army who was generously compensated for. They were not paid a wage, everyone who joined the jihad brought in his own weaponry and transportation. Their compensation was in spoils of war, where they received 4/5ths of whatever they looted. Quite generous wouldn’t you say, as this included all the slaves both male and female they could fetch. The deal was further sweetened because it had divine sanction and you were gaining heaven as a shaheed or a ghazi.

But beyond creating this fighting force there are no great accomplishments. Muslim rulers didn’t do much for the people they spent on building palaces, forts or gardens for themselves for the public there only contribution is in creating grand mosques. No schools, no aquaducts, no cisterns, no toilets, no health care, nothing it is a vast barren land. The average Abdul didn’t mean nothing. The justice system never worked because it was never workable. There are vast gaps in the code and the ruler along with his elite were always above the law. Neither did the economy, capital accumulation was and continues to remain impossible sans interest. As for Bilal, he happened to be intimately tied to the house of Muhammad a huge advantage. Not even the ansar forget kharjis got anything in the Muslim state. The Quraish in particular and Hijaz in general had monopoly on power. Newly converted Muslims were discriminated against and the vestiges of similar class distinction can be seen when one visits any of the Muslim or Arab states which continue to remain an extremely stratified society.

Get over the Victim Syndrome #108 by zeemax

Fielty (my spelling mistake, actually spelt fealty) means giving loyalty as a vassal to a lord. Umar grasped Abu Bakr’s hand in this gesture after the latter made an impassioned speech at the site of Mohammad’s pbuh death. Other muhajirs who were gathered there seeing this as an act of fealty followed suit and soon there after the Ansars did as well. This was an admission of loyalty once the leader had been selected.

No formal process of selection took place when Abu Bakr became Caliph.

I did not say nor imply in any way that Abu Bakr was democratically elected. Nobody knew that he was a candidate for the office. They only rushed to him to give him their loyalty once they realized that he had already been appointed. I hope you get it this time.

The only way any discussion about history is possible is if all sides are interested in getting at the truth. I will be very happy to admit my ignorance and learn from you if you have better historical facts. But if the aim is to just score points by trying to side track, using words out of context, then it doesn’t add to your growth or mine – and I am definitely not interested in a pissing contest.

Get over the Victim Syndrome #64 by zeemax:

Let me try again!

I think you are mixing it all up. The only time the Ansars got a chance to make their case was at the death of the Prophet and this is when the suhabis you mentioned made their case to have one of their own selected as the new leader. Sa’d bin Ubadah made this plea and was a candidate from the Ansars but Abu Bakr succeeded. No such Ansar appeal or participation took place during Uthman’s selection, and they were not part of any shura or selection committee.

Get over the Victim Syndrome #43 by zeemax

Hey googleman! Try your hand at it may be you’ll learn something. Yes, none of the Ansars were invited to participate. Actually there were only 6 in this group of “trusted companions’ and all belonged to the Quraish. These were Ali, Uthman, Abdul Rahman b. Awf and Sa’d b. Abi Waqqas (both maternal uncles of the Prophet), Zubair b. Awwam and Talhat al-Khayr b. Ubaidullah.

Get over the Victim Syndrome #32 by bulleya

....based on that the, ``election`` of the first four caliphs was the earliest experimentation into democracy amongst arabs.......after that day till today, if my history is correct, mecca and medina have had hereditary rule.....

I am afraid your history is definitely not correct. Abu Bakr was given fielty by Umar and every one followed suit. Umar was appointed by Abu Bakr after brief consultation with a few trusted `companions`. Uthman was appointed thru a shura, while Ali went through open warfare and ended up in a divided state. So the appointment of Uthman can be considered in an extremely limited sense to be an exercise in democracy. Even then, there was no such thing as people`s will. The people in this shura were also the same group of `trusted companions`. Mind you, by this time the state had become huge the whole of the Arab peninsula and nearly all the conquered lands which comprised the Khilafat empire had been acquired. But there was no such thing as representation from these lands. It was just the hijaz and those few trusted companions in the hijaz who got rich and sole controllers of power.

A single caliph with such a limited shura hardly constitutes a trend wouldnt you say.

Get over the Victim Syndrome The author seems to suggest in his last paragraph that it is a lack of democratic institutions that has exacerbated this problem. He also suggests that there is wisdom in the fact that the Prophet left the succession question open so that people could decide. Would the author or any one else care to elaborate on both these remedies. We have flirted with democracy in Pakistan in the past, the result has been an increase in corruption. Lack of a succession plan has caused the greatest amount of violence through out the history of Islam.

Reclaiming the Middle Ground #38 by zeemax:

Please open the Quran, I would say take any page and you will find the subject to be the same. It is mostly a reiteration of tauhid. In other words it is being repeated thousands of times how important it is to believe in a single God. After 1400 years, would’nt you say we have gotten the point, there aren’t any polytheists left. Some anal variety of ours continue to lump Christians and Hindus in their ranks, but ask any serious Hindu or Christian they would all attest to the belief in a single God. In today’s world the only debate that is left is whether there is a God or no God. So if we don’t talk about this portion of the Quran which happens to be most of it, are we expunging it – no it is irrelevant for our time.

1400 years ago there was a need to forge a muslim identity and also to mold the umma into a protective force. So we have a great portion of the Quran (Tauba and Baqra) devoted to creating this martial force. God seems like a drill sergeant creating order through communal prayers, with a command structure and rules for everything. But we also know that subsequently we moved from this and most of our heroes, the aulia–e-karam and the Sufis who were responsible for spreading Islam as a faith in Iran, the subcontinent and else where were not part of this communal praying army. They all prayed in seclusion, establishing their own relationship with God. We all hold them in great reverence although they did not follow the method of prescribed communal prayer.

So did the Sufis ignore most of the Book? Of course they did, they just focused on a few core principles and then devoted their life perfecting them. Wouldn’t you agree that Sir Syed Ahmad Khan and Illama Iqbal also did the same and provided much needed guidance and help to the umma in their time. We also need to define certain main themes which are important for us today.

Reclaiming the Middle Ground #40 by Kaalchakra:

Basic Principles of Islam:

-Belief in a single God, and that each one of us as individuals establish our own relationship with God, without the interference from or of any other individual or entity.
-Belief in a righteous path (sirat-e-mustaqeem) which leads us to God and not astray.
-Belief in consequences of our actions.

These are the principles which allow me the flexibility and the liberty which I have taken in trying to pick the core values which I have chosen. But I may not be at all addressing what you have in mind, because you are right I cannot tell you any thing that exists outside of my mind.

Reclaiming the Middle Ground We really don’t need to despair, all that I have written as my charter is contained in the pages of the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet. Just like teshah said all we need is a reinterpretation. It is just we need to reemphasize these parts and deemphasize the agenda of the fascists. It has been too long that they have held the Book up high and shouted their will to keep us under their power. Through their murderous henchmen they have silenced any voice that did not comply with their interpretation. Time’s up! Guys, you are done with good bye and good riddance.

It wasn’t long ago that we decided to eliminate slavery from our ranks although the Good Book allows it. The scourge of multiple marriages was pretty much eliminated out of Pakistan after Ayub Khan’s decree in the early 60s. Even Umar bin Khitaab noticing the burdensome effect of ex-cons with amputated limbs on the baitulmal decided to stop amputations for a while. He resumed this heinous practice once the fascists clamored for more blood.

We have all been very good at finding answers, hints at and interpret every modern activity in the light of the Good Book. To justify acquisition of secular knowledge didn’t we find the wonderful hadith of the Prophet which compels us to go as far as China for knowledge. The reforms I am writing about are very much in line with the Quran and the teachings of the holy Prophet, I truly believe this to be the essence of my faith which is ISLAM.

Reclaiming the Middle Ground
Well! I am so glad that you asked the question as to what reform I want.

First of all, I want to feel comfortable in my own skin. I want to feel that I am doing the right thing and that God’s grace is shining on me, and I shall achieve salvation. In other words, belief in a truly compassionate, beneficent and merciful God. A belief in a God who does not throw human beings into eternal hell fire just because they do not conform to some one or some groups ideas of absolute truth. Even we as human beings distinguish between intent and accidental act or ignorance. How then do we believe that the All Mighty the knower of all our inner most thoughts will just close the gates to heaven because oh o – all you hindus committed shirk – down you go.

I need to know that God is happy with me in my ordinary life, of work and play, fulfilling obligations and juggling everything as best as I can. For this I need heroes, ordinary folks who can be role models for my circumstance. The current slate of heroes only includes those who either gave up the world for a life of prayer and contemplation and those who went out to jihad to subjugate the infidel and in the process achieved both – land and heaven.

I want my soul to be happy. Not in a hedonistic sort of way but to achieve excellence in all the faculties that God has given me, whether in music, in dance, in the arts, sport or intellectual pursuits. To live life to the fullest as a human, that is to be human – not an automaton enslaved by prayer rituals and the million other rules and regulations.

Recognition of work as prayer: Serving your fellow man and making his life easier in this world has to qualify as prayer. Idle prayer has to be relegated to angel duty and huqooq ul ibad have to be redefined as the real purpose of our existence.

I want my girls to have the same status and rights as boys. They are not my property or any one else’s, they are individuals with the same rights and privileges as individuals. With similar remedies in case of dissolution of marriage as those available in America, but fully sanctioned by my religion.

I want a justice system where the purpose of justice is neither revenge nor harm to the guilty party. Instead it is reform and doing the most to make the guilty individual a productive member of society. Where punishments are humane and do not do permanent damage to the convict. So corporal punishment where cutting off limbs, lashes that may kill are a complete no-no.

I want liberty for the individual, and a belief that God has in his infinite wisdom, placed a moral compass within each and every one of us. We may listen to what ever is being said to us but it has to be heard skeptically with each individual asking the question whether it makes sense to him individually and act according to his own self. That, we live life under laws whose main purpose is to safe guard and enhance our liberty and we surrender a very limited portion of these rights to a leader who holds such limited authority under the laws that govern it and for a very limited period of time. And any other form of leadership will be regarded as a tyranny and will be called as such openly, at every juncture and we will resist it with all our might – no individual whoever he may be can claim divine sanction.

I want freedom from arbitrary do’s and donts. Rent is ok, but interest is not. Then the business of graven images, music, the arts, wine and pork. Yes excess of every thing is bad but everything in moderation is good.


I will let you know more as we go forward with these reforms.

Reclaiming the Middle Ground No reform is possible unless and until one is willing to look at the truth, accept it and learn from it. History has the ability to present us this truth so that we can take its lessons but again it is all up to us. We can choose to hide it by not publishing books, not translating them into a language that people can understand, not allowing them to be taught in educational institutions. Spin it to the point where one cant even recognize it. All these methods have been systematically used through out the Islamic world in general and Pakistan in particular.

When this occurs people become unhinged they do not understand why things are happening. Gullibility results in problems festering, remaining unresolved and the society frozen in its form. Such has been the state of the umma for the past millenium. It was not once this way, Muslim Spain was the home of such freedom and unfetterred debate and it managed to produce more scholars during its existence than all other states put together. I am hoping and praying that at long last we come out of this malaise. Let us revive the spirit of Cordoba, let us examine everything truthfully, let the chips fall where they may, make amends and move on.

Reclaiming the Middle Ground Zeemax
#18

For starters here is one - please feel free to answer in as much detail as possible...... or would you rather silence (kill, murder, cut off the tongue ... hands, head and whatever) so that you dont have to deal with such ugly truth and keep it swept under the rug as your #19 post suggests.

“Expedition of Nakhla”:

Scholars regard Nakhla a pivotal event in the history of Islam. The event occurred during the second year of Hijra. The Muhajireen were fairing very badly in Medina, they were mercantile people from Mecca stuck in an Agrarian society. The Ansaar had been welcoming to them but they didn’t have much to sustain themselves let alone care for the new comers. Things got so bad that the Muslims were starving. At this point certain raids were conducted on the Quraish caravans to Syria but none were successful. Somehow the Quraish always knew in advance that the muslims were coming and took defensive action.

This time though the Messenger of God gave 9 men under the command of Abdallah b. Jahsh sealed orders only to be opened after 2 days journey north. When he opened them the orders were to go South (opposite side) and to intercept caravans coming from Yemen. This was a tall order – but he had also been instructed that participation in this venture was voluntary so two of them quit the remaining 7 got to Nakhla. Here they intercepted a caravan coming from Yemen, with 4 men. On seeing the muslims the Quraish became apprehensive, but one of the muslims at once shaved his head and put on the ahram as if he was going to Mecca for an Umrah. This relaxed them. Muslims were in a quandary it was the month of Rajab during which all tribes of Arabia had signed a covenant that blood would not be shed and if they waited till morning the caravan would reach Haram in Mecca the sanctuary. So they opted for violating the sanctity of the sacred month. During the night they attacked them killed Amr b. Al Hadrami captured two and one escaped.

On reaching Madina the Prophet rejoiced in their success but when Abdullah b. Ubayy, the Jews and others started saying that the muslims had committed a grave sin by committing murder, seizing property and captives during the holy month of Rajab things got sticky. Then God revealed the following passage: Quran 2.217

“ They question thee (O Muhammad) with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say: Warfare therein is a great (transgression), but to turn (men) from the way of Allah, and to disbelieve in Him and the Inviolable Place of Worship, and to expel his people thence, is a greater with Allah; for persecution is worse than killing. And they will not cease from fighting against you till they have made you renegades from your religion, if they can. And who so becometh a renegade and dieth in his disbelief: such are they whose works have fallen both in the world and the Hereafter. Such are rightful owners of the Fire: they will abide therein:”

Nakhla is significant because an ancient covenant, which had been agreed upon by all tribes of Arabia had been broken by the Muslims. It put every one on notice that this new group was not playing by the established rules. Another fact is that in all likelihood Badr would not have occurred had it not been for the fact that Amr b. Al Hadrami had been killed.

At Badr once the Quraish realized that Abu Sufyan had taken an alternative route and already avoided the Muslims there was a big debate among the Quraish where the majority wanted to return to Mecca. Their argument was that on the day after the battle all they would have done would be to shed blood of their brother, cousin or nephew. Abu Jahal who was in the group who wanted to fight was able to swing the argument in favor of war only by claiming that how could they go back without avenging the death of Amr. The first individual combats included mawali of Amr b. Hadrami.


This event is a clear illustration of an act, which is absolutely wrong according to 21st century laws or morality receiving Quranic sanction. To play Devil’s advocate (pun intended), I sent a hypothetical case to Professor Tahir ul Qadri in Pakistan. I claimed to be an Attorney who had a client with a case in the Shariat court in Pakistan. My client had been involved in an armed bank robbery he had killed a guard and gotten away with Rs.20 crore. My client claims that he has done nothing wrong and is just following his obligations of being a true muslim. In his view and as the above incident and Ayah indicate he is trying to stop an UnIslamic institution which is based upon interest something that Islam abhors and it is his Jihad to destroy it. Killing the guard was bad but it is a minor sin when compared with the polluting effect that interest brings on the Ummah.

I never got a reply.

But what I had made out as a hypothetical case actually had took place and was taking place in Pakistan at the time. Here is an excerpt from The Friday Times. The link is http://www.thefridaytimes.com. Article is ``The power of the Ahle Hadith``
Khaled Ahmed’s Annalysis.
``One 1993 cassette, containing the khutba-e-juma in Faisalabad of Qari Abdul Hafeez of the Jamiat, levelled the following charges: that despite the fact that the leaders of Lashkar-e-Tayba held that a boy going for jehad did not need the permission of his parents, their own sons did not go to jehad because ‘their mothers did not give permission’; that the Abu Jandal Group of the Lashkar looted banks in Pakistan in the (wrongly attributed) tradition of a Companion of the Prophet (PBUH) who used to loot caravans to strengthen Islam; that members of Lashkar abducted Barelvi girls and kept them as slaves, claiming that Hafiz Saeed had allowed the custom of keeping slave girls; and that colossal sums of money gathered in the name of jehad were pocketed by the leaders of Lashkar.``

Reclaiming the Middle Ground - Are we now ready to have an unfettered debate on Islam, I hope to God that we are. The trouble with all these efforts at discussion is that all of them avoid the history – the way Islam has been practiced during the past 14 centuries. Practice is the distill that the combined wisdom of the ages has bestowed upon us. Where as a scholar can find meanings in phrases of the Quran and emphasize whatever values that he wants to profess in his scholarly work, what cannot be avoided is how the whole society has worked in the past and the combined values that it has upheld.

The greatest crime that Islam has perpetrated on humanity is by legitimizing piracy. The Prophet participated in these piratical raids during his reign in Medina. The ghazwat were nothing more then such raids, and they have legitimacy not only from the fact that the Prophet took part in them, but there are several verses in the Quran congratulating the believers on the success of these ventures and how God had granted them these ‘victories’. For the believer there is no doubt that what they are doing is right and when they raid the ‘infidel’ it is an act of jihad, an act sanctioned by God and his Prophet for the eventual triumph of Muslims and the creation of a world wide kingdom of God. Where everyone would believe in the one true God and follow his commandments.

A practical illustration of this is provide in the pivotal moment in Islam which is the battle of Badr. From day one of our lives the virtues of this battle are promulgated to us in apoplectic terms. Badr is our battle at Marathon, it is our triumph over a much larger infidel enemy who would have wiped us out of existence. It was a battle of survival but it was the survival of the PIRATE, the robber who had gone out to rob a caravan, who was going to steal the goods and enslave its owners to be sold in slavery or held for ransom. The legitimizing of such an act of thievery by the Good Book and the Prophet himself has haunted us ever since.

Since that earliest act till today this has been a constant and compelling act of the Muslim state, its leadership and its community. Make war, plunder, subjugate and demand tribute. Muslims never developed an economy, they only presided over and took taxes from traders among their midst or demanded a share from others productive activity. This was the source of wealth during Umar’s time and during the subsequent regimes. The Ottoman Turks extracted tribute from all the non Muslim lands that they had conquered. Same is true of the Afghan and Turkish raiders who came to India and eventually became the masters there. The Berber states of North Africa which were nominally under the Ottoman Turks were pirate states whereby they would attack European and American shipping in the Mediterranean and the Atlantic. They (in true Muslim tradition) would seize the goods and sell those on board into slavery, unless a ransom was paid, or the person converted to Islam. True to the tradition of the Prophet and the spirit of Badar.

Even today this is the modus operandi of all Muslim states. Where ever possible they extract tribute from who ever they can rather then working for themselves. We can see this manifestation today in the whole of the Gulf or even in a so called progressive state like Malaysia where it is the concept of the ‘local partner’ who extracts ransom from anybody who wants to do business in those states. Close to home it is the Pathan from the tribal area who feels its okay to kidnap kids and hold them for ransom, or the Sipah Sahaba who robbed banks and kept Berelvi women as slaves which constitute an extension to the present of this evil tradition.

Rethinking Plebiscite In Kashmir Judging from Indian response to all the unilateral concessions that Musharraf made, we can conclude that the other side is in no mood for a quick reconciliation. Pakistan should forget about India completely and do things that make sense in getting its house in order. This means only unilateral actions that make sense for Pakistan. Set up a truth and reconciliation commission which should reveal entirely:

- The CIA – ISI involvement in Afghanistan and subsequent divorce.
- All jehadic links within the forces which have been there but are now terminated and helping these outfits to mend their evil ways and if not their punishment.
- Education policy – how the truth was subverted to achieve short term goals.
- Lay bare the nuclear proliferation story completely and make a fresh start for the future.
- Kashmir policy – an open debate as far as costs and benefits of the policy and an analysis under the new paradigm. If we are abandoning this policy the benefits and losses from this change. Would there be a peace dividend in terms of reduction in army budget and greater resources being allocated to development and the economy. The extent of army control on country assets and how this should be altered.
- Land reform – challenge to vederas and tribals – lets hear all sides.
- Excesses of the bureaucracy and police – total revelation.

It’s may lead to a complete meltdown but this is essential for us to make a new beginning. This is the only way for Pakistan to be in peace with itself and all its neighbors.

To Be Or Not To Be Home? A very good article full of good humor, on a topic that would be timely for all times to come. But the important thing is timing, if you are referring to your current situation of having to juggle between raising young children, a husband in the prime of his career an active family life with lots of interaction and interference from in-laws etc. I think there would be a lot of takers for your choice of staying home. Now lets just go back a few years when you were enjoying adult bliss sans kids. It would be quite boring to interact only with house hold help or haggle for groceries in the market. Fast forward to a time when your youngest off spring is 12 years of age.

To stay home in either of these two scenarios would leave you completely unfulfilled. You might end up opting for the crutch a lot of women take – that of having a final child, to give themselves some purpose in life. But the damage is already done. That dear husband of yours who has been busy improving himself during the time that you were doing diaper duty, has left you far behind and you wouldn’t be able to claim

“And my husband can discuss any topic under the sun with me and not bury his nose behind a newspaper or indulge in a man-to-man talk away from the home”

So honey its time to don that business suit and get into the job market once more. There is time for everything, time to stay home and time to get out.

Resistance is the first step towards Iraqi independence Romair #21

Thank you Hamid for helping me out here. I do have some time now so let me answer you the best I can. I am glad that you qualified your pitch with the following statement.

“This is how colonialism is carried out after WWII. No county now goes and physically occupies others. I doubt UK would try to physically occupy anyone now. Countries just control the resources of other countries, through autocratic regimes.”

What I was referring to was the fact that after its own colonial experience America has been very reluctant to take on colonies. The only attempt it made at colonization was in the Philippines, which it abandoned. As a matter of fact dissolution of the British colonial empire was part of the price that America exacted out of Britain for help in the Second World War – ref. “Empire the Rise and Demise of the British World Order”, by Niall Ferguson.

Regarding countries in the Middle East, what do you think about Turkey, which has been a staunch American ally from the beginning of the cold war and America has never attempted to subvert its democracy. For the rest of the Middle Eastern states you can fault America for looking out for its own interests which are intense because of the oil. As far as the criteria of using pro US dictators, that was definitely true thru out the Cold War years. During these years the only criteria used was how to check Soviet influence and gain American economic advantage. All the examples you have quoted fall into this category. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union a new doctrine emerged, the US intervened to punish aggressors. Wars in Bosnia, against Serbia, in Somalia, first Gulf War all fall in this category. But no nation building took place, no martial plans, no institution building, the vanquished were left to their own devices. Even before the Afghan war Bush had declared no nation building, fact of the matter is that Iraq is the first country, which was assured nation building after the war and now Afghanistan has been added to that list.

I believe that 911 has had a profound impact on this nation’s psyche and for the first time ever is it trying to address what Musharraf has so eloquently referred to as “the root causes of terrorism”. Regarding elections, which America has continuously demanded, you just have to look towards Latin America. Right from Juan Peron’s time in Argentina to the present most Latin American countries have faced American pressure for elections. But did these elections further the cause of freedom in these countries? Of course not! Rule of Law, freedom of press, good governance are far more important then just elections. Having free and fair elections today in Afghanistan or Iraq would not bring about greater liberty, the results would be similar to those in Iran after the revolution. Point being that democracy is majority opinion. So if the majority is ignorant, then God help the nation.

As far as invading Pakistan is concerned, there is really no reason for it. Pakistan has and should invite America with open arms – please help us get rid of the Jehadis, the sectarian gangs, drug traffickers, the criminals, religious fanatics, the vederas, the feudals, rehabilitate the madrassahs the tyranny of the army and the bureaucracy. Help us in establishing rule of law, better schools and hospitals, better infrastructure, pollution control. The way they are working in Iraq, if we could recruit them to do the same in Pakistan, I would be the last to object.