Resistance is the first step towards Iraqi independence Mr. Ali: Aren’t we engaging in the world’s favorite pass time, “wishful thinking of how to give America a black eye - a bloody nose”. It reminds me of the same joyous shrieks which came out of most of the world after 9/11.You have pointed out just about every thing that could trip America in Iraq, but please consider the fate of the ordinary Iraqi who just wants to get on with his life. Would you say that if America is humiliated and decides to quit Iraq, would it be good for the common Iraqi?

Up till now there are no indications of America stealing or plundering Iraq. It is busy trying to revive the economy, rebuild the infrastructure, and create a civil society there. There is transparency in its actions, a free and vibrant press with freedom for Iraqis to say what they wish and travel outside the country. Iraqis have a golden opportunity to avail themselves of this chance as the window of opportunity can close pretty quickly. If these attacks continue all America has to do is declare the interim government sovereign and tell the Iraqis to manage their own security situation with only one caveat. Not to allow a religious theocracy to take over the country or some other faction which is tremendously opposed to western interests. This they can accomplish by a couple of divisions permanently stationed there.Would that be better, please consider it from an Iraqi’s point of view.

Countries like people have a background. America just does not have the make up of becoming a colonial power. It would continue to move towards elections however unsuitable they may be. What America does have is a background of rebuilding and turning previous enemies into well-wishers. Even now Americans enjoy deep gratitude and admiration from both Germans and Japanese. Lets be positive and support America in making Iraq a stable democracy with a strong economy in our neighborhood.

My Perspective on Islam Saminshah:

Precisely the point you make disheartens me to the point where I feel that no reform of the Muslim is possible. ``Do unto others as you would have them do unto you`` does not apply to Muslims. A Muslim cannot be obliged at a personal level, and you can never expect to be treated with the same amount of kindness that you may have granted him. The value system just does not work this way.

You see everything emanates from God so if you satisfy their dire need, they are thankful to God for making you the source of this satisfaction. The maximum you can expect is their prayer that may God reward you for your kindness. In other words there is no personal gratitude nor an obligation to return the favor as an individual or to the society in general. This lack of personal accountability to your fellow man is perhaps the greatest impediment to the creation of a moral and just society in Islamic countries.

Growing up Muslim Saima,

I must commend you for choosing a red-hot topic. Generally speaking it is the most forward-looking Desi who moves West. Like you say they are looking for greener pastures and are willing to experiment socially. Most start out eating regular American fare and doing things what most young folks do. But change starts when the desi wife shows up at Kennedy. It starts out with desi cooking at home and gradually expands to only Halal meat. But the goose gets really cooked on the arrival of little princess. Suddenly Mr. Desi is confronted with the future possibility of his princess being the object of someone else’s experimentation. This thought alone brings the fear of God into the poor man. From there it is a slippery slope and he starts tightening up the bubble around the princess. Before long all oxygen has been sucked out and mommy, daddy and princess are emaciated.


So how do we change this? First we need to understand the values of our adopted land. You barely touched on that sage of rational thought Socrates/Plato and Aristotle whose wisdom is the basis of Western civilization. We need to study them, understand their purpose in life, their concept of justice, ethics, what a righteous life should be etc.

The pill and broad definitions of rape including date rape have done more to liberate women then any doctrine in history. As a parent of two girls 12 and 16 my purpose is to provide them with a safe nourishing environment where they are free to explore and pursue their arête. Whereas the younger prefers to hang out with friends and read books, the older is busy playing field hockey, sailing, dancing and acting. I am sure that they don’t confide in me on every topic but the discourse is fairly open.

My Perspective on Islam In our current context the term Islamic Fundamentalism is used not only to indicate a belief in literal scripture, but also denotes a willingness to commit violence in the name of religion. While it’s important to examine scripture and even come up with an enlightened reading and a new interpretation, but I hope that you would examine the expansion of Islam in history. The following letter may illustrate the point.

In 633 A.D 12 A.H

“From Khalid b. al Walid to the ruler of the Persians:
Peace be upon whosoever follows right guidance. Praise be to God. Who has scattered your servants, wrested your sovereignty away, and rendered your plotting weak. Whoever worships the way we worship, faces the direction we face in prayer, and eats meat slaughtered in our fashion, that person is a Muslim who obtains the benefits we enjoy and takes up the responsibilities we bear. Now then, when you receive this letter, send me hostages and place yourselves under my protection. Otherwise, by Him other than Whom there is no god, I will most certainly send against you a people who love death just as you love life.

History of Al Tabri – Volume 11

From India in the east to Spain in the west expansion of Islam took place with similar ultimatums. It cannot be dismissed as an initial phase. The Ottoman Empire during its hay day plundered, took slaves and demanded tribute. Fact of the matter is such behavior was considered barbaric till the barbarian accepted Islam and then it was okay so long as he committed those acts against non muslims.

Is the current docility of Muslims because of the peaceful message of their faith or is it because of their present weakness? Minorities in Muslim lands remain insecure and fearful. I hope you would address these issues in your book.

Justice for Half a Man Urstruly re: 104

I appreciate you taking the time to respond to me at length.

You have taken great pains to explain what the Old and New Testament say about menstruation, but despite what the Bible says – Christians and Jews continue to interpret their religion for the present time. Your first point is that no sex is allowed during menstruation – Untrue! The Catholic Church since the 1950’s has taught its congregants to practice rhythm and part of that practice is to have sex during a woman’s period. Now, you can claim that this ruling contradicts the written word of the Bible but that is how it is. The rest of the points that you iterate have been debunked by the Whole Church and nobody practices them.

So my friend the same old argument is here to hound us. The case of a comparison between Islam on the one hand Christianity and Judaism on the other is invalid because the former can never be changed and its adherents want it to be practiced as written. The latter (Christianity and Judaism) interpret their dogma to their present circumstance and in light of the most current logic and reason. In addition to it there is no state in the Western World and for that matter the whole world, which can be called a Christian state. We have a Jewish state but it does not practice Jewish Law.

Let me clarify the term “unclean” – I was translating it for “Napaak” in other words not being “Ba-vazooh”. However much you may state that calling somebody Napaak or the specific Hadith that you quote #17 they are definitely not uplifting to our women folk.

Justice for Half a Man Urstruly,

I admire your persistence, steadfastness, research and effort that you did on this topic and others that you have taken up in the past. But (and there had to be a but) your research doesn’t seem to be to a discovery where you would allow the chips to fall where they may - instead it is an effort to justify injunctions already laid out in our religious texts.

The basic point that needs to be determined is whether there is a fundamental misogyny in Islam. The core concept which is misogynic as you have identified is the fact that Islam considers menstruation – “unclean”. Menstruation is a normal body function of adult women. The only comparison that I could make would be if there were laws declaring black skin unworthy. It does not interfere in a woman’s ability to perform any function. Societies primitive or advanced would not function if women would take 3 to 10 days off every month. Where as men get days off from work, housework is never done. Your arguments about hormonal changes causing mood swings are exaggerated. My father never had to save me from the wrath of emotional outbreaks of my mother and I don’t think you would have to worry about getting fair treatment from Justice O’ Connor or Judge Judy (they may not be hormonal but menopausal which does not get them off the hook according to your justification).

Declaring menstruation unclean and then imposing limits like not allowing them to pray or fast etc. has had a devastating impact on the psyche of our women. She is made to feel inferior, unclean, unworthy. This is what keeps our women down, and in the final analysis keep us down.

Miscued Doldrums; The Saga Revisited, The Feud Recreated Interesting! not many posts from the Pakistani side.

Q: Why wouldn`t Pakistan open up its media or invite Indian artists for live performance?

A: Because nobody in Pakistan would ever listen to Pakistani music or artists any more. Given the ban and all, still most people listen to Indian music, watch their movies etc. The govt. policy is an attempt to protect an endangered specie.

The Educationist What is interesting is the effect of all this education. Now education itself has become an industry and the village has grown into a town with a metalled road, shops a brothel and money being sent home from bigger cities and Amrika.

What about using the education within the village to solve village problems, may be setting up industry, innovating or in general making the village life better.

A Challenge to My Co-religionists I don’t know why there is this confusion about who a Muslim is? Had there been complicated requirements there wouldn’t have been so many Muslims on the planet today. Ladies and gentlemen: the only requirement for being a Muslim is to recite and believe in Tauheed which is: “There is only one God and Muhammad is his messenger”. So the debate about cultural Muslim, practicing Muslim, non-practicing Muslim doesn’t mean much. They are all Muslims.

BUT WHERE IS URSTRULY?

He was going to debate how Islamic laws were so fair.

“I would really welcome author or anyone who wishes to engage in a debate with me on any of the topic. For author it is a challenge.” Post # 24.

SR took his challenge and posted #48.

Urstruly hasn’t replied since.

Islam in Crisis (part 1) Tahmed #152
Please go further on the link that you provided and the whole thing falls flat http://www.medialdea.net/historyguy80538/introduction.htm. As far as Karen Armstrong is concerned, she is a scholar of comparative religions, which again has nothing to do with history. When she talks about King David she is referring to him as mentioned in the Bible etc. Google references are also related to the Bible, but if you do find some real historical references to David or Moses or even Jesus I would really appreciate them.

``The important thing of course is neither the past nor even the present, but the future. And I think there is no doubt that unless humanity manages to destroy the planet, we will find a general progression towards greater education, knowledge, rationality in ALL parts of the world. ``

This is wishful thinking. Had rational thought continued, scientific revolution and the progress that we have made in the 21 century could have been achieved in 300 A.D. The rational thought of Aristotle and the Greeks were replaced by the Christian Dogma which lead us into the Dark Ages which lasted nearly a thousand years. Islamic Rennaissance took the sceptre of this rational thought and advanced scientific knowledge for about 200 years again to be bottled up by Imam Abu Ghazali and the eventual burning down of all libraries by the Tartars. The west has since taken over this advancement, but dont for a moment think that fundamentalist forces in the west or east could not cease control and decide on eliminating all knowledge and reverting us back into darkness.

Islam in Crisis (part 1) I was not aware of any historical evidence that David existed other then what is written in the Old Testament. So if you have some historical reference I would appreciate that. Let me refer to this link (http://www.askwhy.co.uk/judaism/0150David.html) which may illustrate what I am saying. I referenced Moses just to illustrate the time line. Best guesstimates for Moses being alive in 12 to 1400 BC means that David had to be after Moses to be a Jew. So him existing in 1800 BC would be out of the question.

About the part, were the Jews or Christians equally brutal in ancient history as the Muslims. I am not debating that at all. Reason is that Jews and Christians continuously rewrite their ideals as to what the highest moral values should be for the present time. They admit that what was happened in the past was wrong and pass laws which prohibit it from happening in the future. Even the Pope reinterprets

This is not true for the Muslims. If they would also say that, Hey! That was true for that time, not any more, the rules are different for now. It would be no problem. Instead they continuously revert to the seventh century Medinat state as the ideal that has to be established. You can see that in the Taliban, in the MMA’s attempt right now or Saudi Arabia. Whereas you seem to dismiss it as an aberration, I think these folks are committed to the ideals as laid in the Quran and Sunnah and if they achieve them they are surely going to revert to the medieval tyranny as it existed in seventh century Arabia. The whole glass house seems to break down when somebody reveals conditions how they really were and has to be stopped through Blasphemy Laws. Moreover nobody has the authority in Islam to deny what was permitted or permit what was denied. That is why, when Ayub Khan removed the curse of multiple marriages he had to do it by decree. No Aalim or Mufti would endorse the abolition or of corporal punishment or giving equal rights to women, accept interest as essential part of a functioning economy or saying entertainment TV, music or pictures is okay.

So you are right about me not being open minded, because we are dealing with a people, who have completely closed their minds and submitted themselves to a dogma frozen in time.

Islam in Crisis (part 1) tahmad32 #145:

Ahmad Sahib, historically speaking, there is no record of a man called Moses who ever walked on this earth. In other words, records of Kings, communities etc show no traces of the existence of this Biblical character. This is similar to the Odyssey and Iliad, which refer to the legendary city of Troy and the Trojan war. History though, does not have any record of such a city nor of any kings or heroes, which comprise that epic. Similarly there is no historical evidence of a King named Dasaratha or his famous son Rama the main characters of the Ramayan. Where as the Odyssey is referred to as Greek Mythology, most Indians not all agree that Ramayan and Mahabharat are part of the Indian Mythology, the folks of the Abrahamic faiths consider the gospel to be the truth. But there is no evidence of it. The presence of early Jewish tribes and their writings, temples etc. point to a guesstimate, that if such a person did exist (his legend may have grown with time) it would be around 1200 B.C.

So escape from Egypt, pestilence and all the punishment that God unleashed on the Pharoah and the Egyptians because they wouldn’t “let my people go” are all part of the legend and should not be confused with the methodical work of historiography

Islam in Crisis (part 1) Urstruly#146

Only you can connect these dots, that Sa`d b. Mu`adh a beduin who had recently accepted Islam, was a scholar of Mosaic Law and well versed in Deutoronomy chapter 20. Fabulous!

Islam in Crisis (part 1) Urstruly# 139: You should read the post again and please confirm against your sources. Let me again plainly state to you so that you can understand it. The person who passed judgment on the Jews was neither a Jew, nor was he appointed by the Jews and he didn’t issue his verdict under any Jewish Law. So you are wrong on all counts.

A little background so that the quotation from Al Tabri is clearer to you. In my earlier post regarding the Banu Quainuqah, that tribe was saved by Abdallah b. Ubayy who was from Al Khazraj tribe who were the muwali of the Banu Qainuqah. Al-Aws the second tribe of Medina were the muwali of Banu Qurayzah. Now when the Banu Qurayzah got in trouble the al-Aws approached the Prophet in a similar fashion as Abdallah b. Ubayy, to save the Banu Qurayzah. Instead of agreeing to let them go or show mercy to them, M o G said to the Aws would you agree if one of yours would pass judgment on them. They agreed and the Prophet appointed Sa’d b. Mu’adh (a muslim from the al-Aws tribe) as their judge.

Islam in Crisis (part 1) Urstruly #104:

“So he appointed an arbiter chosen by Jews themselves, and who himself was a Jew to decide their fate. He gave his verdict based on Mosaic law which prescribed death of all adult males. That resulted in the death of 700 Jews.”

You further stated

#130:

“No it was Mosaic Justice - their law and their judge. I think you have a problem with reading comprehension.”


No Sir! You are completely misstating what actually happened. He was neither chosen by the Jews, nor was he a Jew himself and neither was the verdict based on Mosaic Law.

His name was Sa’d b. Mu’adh of the al-Aws tribe. A muslim who had been injured during the battle of the trench, with an arrow in his leg. He was selected only to satisfy the al-Aws who were the muwali of the Banu Qurayzah. They knew which way he was going to rule even before the case was presented to him.

Al Tabari provides a detailed account.

Volume VIII- Page 33.

“In the morning they submitted to the judgment of the M o G. The al-Aws jumped up and said:” M o G, they are our clients(mawali), not clients of Al Khazraj (he had previously given the Banu Qaynuqa to Abdallah b. Ubayy of the Al Khazraj as they were their confederates). Therefore when the al-Aws spoke to him, the M o G said, “People of the al-Aws, will you not be satisfied if one of your own men passes judgement on them?” “Yes,” they said. So he (M o G) said, “it shall be entrusted to Sa’d b. Mu’adh.”……….. They brought him to the M o G, saying “Abu ‘Amr, treat your clients well, for the M o G has put you in charge of the matter only that you may treat them well.” After they had plied him with many such requests, he said, “ the time has come for Sa’d for the sake of God not to be influenced by anyone’s reproach.” Then one of his tribesmen went back to the dwelling place of the Banu ‘Abd al-Ashhal and announced to them the death of the of the Banu Qurayzah before Sa’d b. Mu’adh reached them because of the words he had heard from him.”

Islam in Crisis (part 1) Tahmad:

You have every right to claim a commonsense understanding or a logical approach to the Quran and its message but it is completely immaterial whether I agree with you or not. What is more important is the vast majority of the Ummah what they believe. I am afraid I will have to agree with Urstruly and Naqshbandi on that score. You cannot separate the message from the Messenger like Urstruly says and Mr. Naqshbandi has laid out quite succinctly the position of the majority. This is exactly what Blasphemy laws are designed for – quash open debate, discourage dissent, enquiry, accentuate the positive hide the negative. Pakistan is a classic case for all this.

Forget religion for a second, next sacred cow became Quaid e Azam. In school I did not study a single negative point, forget that, something that could be deemed controversial about the man. Beyond that there was no room for official criticism. Till today kids are not given any critique on the reasons why we lost the 1971 war. The results are self evident. The internet has exposed the deplorable level of education our kids have, especially in the humanities.

But why is the Prophet’s history and the Medinat state so important and why cant we just ignore it as nothing more then a passing interest? Because we cannot design laws in an Islamic State which in any way contradict the laws of that time. This is precisely why it is the old Mullah who marries an underage girl – because he finds religious sanction. I have never heard of an MIT graduate who at age 50 decided to marry an 11 year old girl. More importantly though it gives the strong draw legal sanction to practice tyranny on the hapless masses under their sway. You may know yourself of the Wadera in Sindh who has his serfs and kept women, while he also pays for the mosque and the muezzen in his village.

My earlier post, regarding the Ahle Hadith looting banks and abducting Barelvi girls and keeping them as slaves. Where do you think they derive their legitimacy?

If it was good enough for the Prophet to do it, it is good enough for us. To quote Mr. Urstruly, “Shit Happens”!