Basant in Lahore sadna...
it became a India vs. Pakistan thing from the article itself, so yes, you are right, it did become such a thing before you came on to the scene, but you brought up valid points, which is why i responded to you...as for your last post here, i feel i`ve been here too long myself, and may not remain for the continuing love fest. :-)
and thank you for clarifying your position even further, i agree with you.

Basant in Lahore faisaluno...no, not all pakis are anal, and it doesn`t hurt to get the facts straight about the origins of Basant or any holiday that we celebrate even if you think that it`s all about having fun (which all celebrations should be)

kala_angrez...quite the interesting perspective coming from you...i should also suggest that you include yourself in the `retards` greeting, because as worthy as your suggestion about planting a tree is, you sound completely whacked.

In Search of Peace and Flowers from The Guardian:

We Are the People
Saturday`s march was a protest with no leaders and little to say. The `little` it had to say was `No`. Simple as that

by Madeleine Bunting

There will be millions of people who will never forget Saturday February 15 2003. It was an extraordinary combination of the utterly prosaic and the deeply moving: a bursting bladder and the nearest toilets several hours` walk away in Hyde Park, an aching back and blisters, and then the remarkable sight of a heaving mass of people along the Embankment converging with crowds pouring across Waterloo bridge. Everywhere there were astonishing juxtapositions: the body-pierced peaceniks alongside the dignified Pakistani elder with white beard; the homemade placard ``The only bush I trust is my own`` drawing surreptitious giggles from a group of veiled Muslim women.

This was a day which confounded dozens of assumptions about our age. How much harder it is today than a week ago to speak of the apathy and selfish individualism of consumer society. Saturday brought the entire business of a capital city to a glorious full-stop. Not a car or bus moved in central London, the frenetic activities of shopping and spending halted across a wide swathe of the city; the streets became one vast vibrant civic space for an expression of national solidarity. Furthermore, unlike previous occasions when crowds have gathered, this was not to mark some royal pageantry, but to articulate an unfamiliar British sentiment - one of democratic entitlement: we are the people.

That is why Saturday was a defining moment in contemporary political culture - whatever it achieves in the debate on the war with Iraq. First, it shifted the tone of what Britain believes itself to be. Are we to be cowed by security threats and fear of our neighbors, our political culture crippled by suspicion into campaigns of ugly persecution? Saturday`s march was a defiant no. The very best of Britain was on the city`s streets (and for every person marching, there were more in sympathy at home): we showed ourselves to be a nation that is at ease with itself, compassionate, multicultural and tolerant. One of the day`s many ironies was that this was the Britain which is so frequently exhorted in ministers` speeches. Among Saturday`s demonstrators were New Labour`s natural allies - fair-minded, decent people, the kind who don`t walk on the other side of the street. They were beautifully British - patiently waiting when the march ground to a halt, politely apologetic if they bumped into you, and not overly friendly, the reserve only cracking briefly and occasionally.

Second, Saturday proved that the decline of democracy has been overstated. What has changed is the pattern of participation; political parties and turnouts may be declining, but intense episodic political engagement is on the increase. In recent years we have seen both the lowest turnouts and the biggest demonstrations in British political history - there`s a conundrum to keep hundreds of political scientists busy.

Third, there was another intriguing characteristic of this protest. As we shuffled along the Embankment, someone yelled through a loudspeaker that we were too quiet, he urged us to shout. In reply, came a roar of noise which could be heard slowly rippling along the length of the march. No words, no slogans, just a roar which quickly subsided. For the next five hours, there were no loudspeakers until we finally arrived at Hyde Park just as the speeches finished - and we weren`t even the last, the streets were packed behind us. Thousands of people on Saturday never heard a speech. Did it matter? Did we miss anything? No, because if truth be told, the speakers were a B-list of political has-beens and celebrities, and their speeches were pretty dreadful. This was a protest with no leaders and with little to say; it was not interested in debate. The ``little`` it had to say, was NO. It was as simple as that.

This was the most important aspect of all. The demonstration was driven by one very powerful and very accessible emotion: a deeply felt revulsion against modern warfare. Over the course of the 20th century, as our technological ingenuity made war ever more brutal, we discovered that it was the weakest civilians who suffer the most - the old, the young and the sick. As the sophistication of the weapons developed - cluster bombs, landmines - we learned that the killing goes on long after the peace treaties are signed. And when images are relayed all over the world within minutes, we have understood how violence in one part of the globe can destabilize and radicalize another, setting off uncontrollable chain reactions of more violence.

All of this knowledge is underpinned by something much more visceral. It is a sensibility formed by scores of war films such as Platoon, Saving Private Ryan, and thousands of TV images of the suffering of war`s victims. How can we endure the suffering of Iraqi civilians on our television screens in two months` time? The tears which have embarrassed us in our cinema seats and in our armchairs may have been manipulated by Hollywood or newsmen, but they have enlarged our emotional imagination. We can now imagine, in a way that no previous generation has done, the families - just like our own - in a Baghdad suburb whose lives are now hanging in the balance. And we can imagine the suffering of those who prosecute the war, the sons and lovers - just like our own - bracing themselves to kill, and to die.

This groundswell of emotion doesn`t generate anger - there wasn`t much in evidence on Saturday - so much as stubborn resistance. That makes Tony Blair`s battle to convince the British public all the harder. You can argue with people who are angry - there`s a debate to be had, but you can`t argue with ``No``. This is the politics of emotion which is fed, inspired and manipulated by mass communications. Blair is fighting against the images of war`s victims which we hold in our heads - such as the one the Daily Mirror published of a sick child on its front cover on Saturday.

You can`t use arguments about international law against such an emotional opposition, as Blair now appreciates - in his speech on Saturday, he switched to the moral ground. This is where debates about war end up, even if it isn`t where they start.

But this is the hardest ground of all for Blair to win on; the onus lies with him to prove that war will cause less suffering than Saddam Hussein will, an impossible task given the huge uncertainties of the war`s conduct, let alone its impact on the Middle East and relations between Islam and the west.

Not one bomb has been dropped on Iraq, not one shot fired and already there has been the biggest global protest movement ever seen. What happens once the orphans, the widowed and the killed appear on our screens? Then, the stubbornness will become anger. We said No, Not in our Names and we meant it. Blair will never be forgiven. A tragic end to a good prime minister who was swept to power on a promise that ``things will only get better``.

Hasrat amjed...i do prefer the urdu verse much more to the translation...but then i always prefer the urdu! and it`s so nice to be able to read the verse in urdu as well..it`s lovely.

Al-Qaeda in America tahmed ji: bas i just have to give `daad` where `daad` is due...your commentary on this whole situation is so refreshing, it totally makes up for me not being able to watch any World Cup matches!!! :-)

Basant in Lahore sadna...
i was going to apologize for being so unknowing about Basant, but then i wasn`t sure if i was included in your remark. Nevertheless, I do apologize as a Pakistani...I`m not so sure what the term `secular Pakistani` means anymore. :-)
Quite a lot of us Pakistanis simply forget the fact that we do have Hindu roots, and we don`t have to expunge everything from our past...I can`t help but think of ally`s article `a little bit of Hindu.` From what my mother tells me, basant and lohri were celebrated by Punjabis around her village for years, and perhaps still are. Ammi and I have this discussion often about how we can still embrace our new religions fully, but still appreciate that which was ours in the past. Unfortunately that is not the case for all Muslims in Pakistan. So if your Hindu sensibilities were offended (again!), I apologize, on my behalf, because the writer of this piece probably won`t. And you`re absolutely right, it doesn`t help secular Pakistanis defending Basant to be so unknowing about its other subcontinental manifestations.

Not to defend Yasser here which I have solemnly sworn never to do, but he does acknowledge that the identity of a Pakistani Muslim (the rest of us minorities have no identity crises ;-) ) is only part Muslim...at least we can give him that...but I guess the fact that he messes up other important facts takes that acknowledgement away from him, eh? :-) It`s just really unfortunate that yet again, just when we thought we could all revel in something both Pakistan and India celebrate, that this has to turn into a Hindu vs. Muslim and India vs. Pakistan board.
Just like Veeresh says your kebabs are better, perhaps your Basant is better than ours too!!!?
signed
a Pakistani

{women, i have observed, suffer more from promiscuity compared to men since women can get pregnant and if the guy was in it for fun he is no where to be seen then what does a woman do ????? refusing to go to bed helps a lot , if a woman refuses and the guy still insists then he is no good as a husband or anyhting maybe just good pass time, so go ahead if one wants to have fun, but if not then refuse so that a woman or man can find out for sure about the intentions of this person :) }

--i`m not sure i see the connection between promiscuity and pregnancy, but i really cannot connect to this notion that women suffer MORE from promiscuity and men don`t. women who have sex are promiscuous, but men are just in it for good pass time and fun??? I`d question sajni`s gender at this point, but sadly many women say the same thing. It`s utter bakwas. Either we stop making such comparisons between men and women, and not regard `sex` as a promiscuous act, or we acknowledge the fact that if indeed it is promiscuous, then this whole bloody double standard thing nahiN chalega.

Basant in Lahore sadna: #47

:-)

Al-Qaeda in America tahmed ji....i live a decaffeinated life these days, but i`m always more inclined towards chai than coffee :-)

Al-Qaeda in America Ralph, #35
thank you. not having my coffee as ursfalsely puts it, i often forget to ignore his continuous brainless foaming at the mouth. I will be more mindful in the future. :-)

An Interview with Govind Nihalani i missed `baraka` when it came here...although having watched the trailer quite a few times, it can be seen as a wide canvas....

Basant in Lahore what newszine is that from...clearly it reflects what the mullahs are thinking as well. What Islamic values is he talking about??!!!
Basant is, as rozaiba put it, a celebration that transcends class, racial and religious barriers...the bo katas, the songs, the dancing...oh dear, a celebration of life is `unislamic`...chee chee chee chee!

Does anyone remember in `Earth` when Ayah and Lenny went to Ice-Candy wala`s for Basant, and Ice-Candy wala bo katos a patang belonging to a Hindu, if I remember correctly, and says something negative about Hindus in front of the Hindu ayah he supposedly loves...I don`t remember that being in the novel itself, but in the movie, the patang uRaoing aspect of basant turns into a battlefield.
and the bo katoing continues!

Al-Qaeda in America #27...
you seem to provide endless justifications for the Taliban. Even if I was to go back to those old newspapers, I would still see no justification as to why the Hindus living in Afghanistan had to wear saffron badges...just as I see no justification for the US government having put Japanese-Americans in `relocation centers` during World War II....just as i see no justification for the special INS registrations that are taking place these days. If you want to continue defending the `mighty` Taliban that`s your choice. But the Taliban was just as repressive a force as you feel the country you live in right now is, and the Afghani women and men who attest to that, aren`t `uncle tom` afghanis.
as for your sarcasm about the situation of women in Afghanistan now....that really doesn`t deserve a response.

An Interview with Govind Nihalani thank you for bringing this article here...unfortunately i`m not too familiar with Govind Nihalani`s work, but I`ve been wanting to watch Hazaar Chaurasi ki Maa since forever...none of the video rental places here has it.

Basant in Lahore rozaiba...
as a Lahori Punjaban...I know all about Basant and the fact that it began as a cultural rural celebration...and my question by no means intended to take away from what Basant is, was and will be in Lahore and elsewhere in Punjab. I just wish that the writer had focused solely on Basant which is a lovely celebration that takes place in both Punjabs (or should I say the entire Punjab), and not turned this into yet another potential India vs. Pakistan fest... but you`re right, it is his article, and therefore the less I say here, the better. :-)

Basant in Lahore was this article really about Basant?????