Towards Greater Tolerance PM.
I considered letting your post #204 go without response, but then I said what the hell :-), so here goes:
The `obscure` Punjabi Christian rural township, Shantinagar, which you refer to is one of my homes away from home away from home...it is my mother`s village.
The mob attacked Shantinagar in February of 1997...it was not in 1996.
`Despicable no doubt. But no lives were taken.` is incorrect as well. It was despicable and some lives were taken. Perhaps it wasn`t a large-scale massacre, but nevertheless there were some casualties. People have conflicting reports on this, but I personally know of one.
Just thought I`d point that out to you, Patrick.
ana

The Urdu Press in New York sameeroo...it`s Christopher Hitchens...I`ve heard him on Booknotes when he was talking about his book on Orwell. But let`s not mention his name too much over here, otherwise we may get the attention of someone from another board, like YLH. :-D

Victory? Paagal Insaan: errr...thank you for correcting me...that`s what I meant of course. I`ve studied a little bit of Arabic so I did know it meant `of`...thanks again! :-)

Victory? t.,
isn`t it nice to know that `tabassum-e-tifl....` chaley ga?! :-)

qatra-e-hayaat-e-nau: qatra is drop or droplet, hayaat is life, nau, i`m guessing is new, or beginning...the `e` `s of course connect the words to each other...truly ji...i thought i was abysmal with urdu, i cannot even conceive the notion that you are worse...please tell me that your question, as some of your past statements, is a joke!!!!! p.s--most of what i`ve said here IS a joke `cept for the meaning of the words and my abysmal Urdu. :-)

t. again,
my sadness may have been the result of other things, and not necessarily this poem. The ending is more ambivalent, perhaps, otherwise why would there be a questioning of jeet (as indicated by ?).

love, a. xo

Columbia Farzana,
so true yaar.

There are some of us who have been disappointed with the media coverage emphasizing on one, over all others, ignoring one or some...the media being as they are. People like Kalpana Chawla overcame difficult hurdles to be where she was, on Columbia. All seven astronauts had lives to be celebrated, and my condolences are for their families and loved ones. At the end of the memorial service in the Orthodox Church, the priest says, `May your memory be eternal`. May their memories indeed be eternal.

Towards Greater Tolerance Yasser:
This is a pointless exercise, but I will do it anyway...when I said check yourself...I meant read what you write and think about it. I haven`t commented on the rest of your article...I focused on that paragraph specifically because facts and figures aside, there is no misconstruing as you put it...I`m sure you meant well, but simply put, that was just badly phrased, and doesn`t reflect well on moving towards `a greater tolerance.`

Speaking of tolerance, clearly you have little to no tolerance for me as a person, which is fine, because I will be able to sleep nights knowing that...as for me gleefully mentioning your thrashing, well Yasser the problem with you is and has been the fact that you don`t read very well, or should I say you misread very well. There is nothing gleeful in any thrashing...and there is nothing gleeful for me in saying any of the caustic things I say to you because there simply is nothing gleeful about a person not using his/her intelligence to the best of his/her capabilities. And I will beat you to the punch by saying that I am guilty of that myself, thank you!
And I thought I might add one more thing...Yousaf Youhanna`s Pakistan is not the same Pakistan for every Christian...it is certainly not the Pakistan of some of my relatives, and it is not the Pakistan of those Christian people whose village was looted and rioted in by thousands of Muslims six years ago, this week, who are STILL recovering from the effects of that, and some of whose lives have changed forever because of that. And that riot was not of a global nature, it was done by ignorant and bigoted Muslims who heard the call to destroy churches, houses, and water supplies just as strongly as they are called to prayer. Such attacks may be far and few between, but the effects last a long long time. Some of these people want to leave, because they grew up (and old) in a Pakistan which they felt was their home because that`s where their roots were long before Pakistan came into being and they were made to feel that those roots meant nothing. That is their Pakistan...that is my Pakistan. These sad realities continue for quite a few of us, and while it`s great that some non-Muslims have made it `big`...some of us are still continuing to pay the price of `intolerance`. So, yes...long live Youhanna`s Pakistan, and yours. My Pakistan...if it should ever come to be, will be a Pakistan where we can realize that Partition was in 1947, and not prolong the situation by our insistence in regards to Kashmir, a Pakistan where the blasphemy laws and laws harmful to women are abolished, a Pakistan where the army and mullahs are removed from power and decision-making vis-a-vis our lives, and a Pakistan where we pay more attention to our own people, and improve the lives of all...not just the rich. When that happens...my Pakistan will be mine again.

Victory? i am so thoroughly depressed now t.
...promises of life with death, yes we`ve heard those promises more than enough.
i love the urdu....it`s beautifully sad.
love,
ana xo

Towards Greater Tolerance Yasser...
since when is calling someone beta a term of disrespect...my goodness, I will refrain from calling my own children beta. No, you are not my beta, and thank goodness for that. But I apologize, despite the fact that you are young enough to be my beta, I will never refer to you as that again.
And just a friendly clarification...these people who are throwing mud at you are not my `lovable` friends. I do have some positively adorable friends here on Chowk, but most of those friends do not interact on your boards for reasons I totally understand and sympathize with. And yes, I do see something wrong with the way you are trashed here. I also see something wrong with some of your arguments, which is why I speak up sometimes. I now see the merits of silence being golden in some cases.
As for checking myself, or getting myself checked up (matchpoint to you on that)...last I checked, I was fine. Hope you remain that way as well. :-)

The Urdu Press in New York Rehan,
I think it`s great that you`re translating these for wider readership, and hope that you continue doing so. Also thanks for pointing out the website for VTMBH. :-)
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attention all Rehan bashers: Please note that he did NOT write these articles, and is therefore NOT responsible for their content
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and Rehan, I hope you`re well and all is good, i wouldn`t know since you`ve been ignoring my emails ;-)
lve. ana

Towards Greater Tolerance Yasser ne farmaya:
{And yet the exchange of populations happened and then came the terrible communal holocaust on both sides. Some 5.5 Million Muslims were ethnically cleansed from East Punjab and areas neighboring Pakistan, and some 3.5 million Hindus from West Punjab and Sindh then packed up and left for India....}

I agree with both dullabhatti, and Manjit on this issue. Regardless of whether ethnic cleansing means killing or not (and believe me, beta, in this case it most certainly did) Yasser, you need to check yourself, not books or figures on what you`ve said here. Have you read Urvashi Butalia`s `The Other Side of Silence`? Read it...it may increase your knowledge. Anyway, what you seem to be implying here (intended or not) is that Muslims were forced out of East Punjab, whereas Hindus just packed up and left. Could there be any greater fiction than this? And please let us not forget our Sikh brothers and sisters. What happened in Punjab in terms of `ethnic cleansing` includes killing on both sides and forcible removals of Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs (which you fail to mention) who did NOT just pack up their bags and leave...so many of them didn`t even get to do that. Your phrases reek of bias, intentional or not, and they insult the memories of those who know better. Forget about checking figures Yasser, just check yourself!
ana

Agent Pinkyfeld hmmm....what fun have Samina, Zafar and Aamir been embroiled in?!!!? this is hilarious. had to laugh at the name Nurse Practitioner Yes.
And the Hindu Jewish spy wins over Mullah Mendacity...hooray! Watch out for the barrage of idiocies from those who will take this faaar toooo seriously.
is there more????!!!!
ana

NYC did i get taken...well at least i didn`t get taken alone...my response was to ashwin...i didn`t even read urstruly`s post in it`s entirety...they have never been the easiest posts for me to read, given the fact that I`m not so smart! ;)
tahmed32...why thank you, such eloquent praise coming from one of my favorite chowkwallahs :-)...by the way, sameerJB is not one of my favorite chowkwallahs.

NYC ashwin: good response. The most important element of any poem is the khyal, the spirit which i think you put across quite well...once upon a time it mattered to poets how many syllables, whether it was an alexandrine or something else, tortuous exercises given to determine how many syllables and whether the rhyme scheme is abba, abab or whatever. While such things amazingly added to the beauty of the poem, and probably still do for many, this is clearly not the only way to judge how good a poem is.
and if i may requote something one of our respected writers said to another one of our writer/poets: `critics are a dime a dozen, but writing is hard (work?)` (am typing from memory...often forget the joy of copying and pasting)
poetry is so subjective, you get the praises and you get the `i don`t get its` and `this is trash`. And this bird who fights every single day to keep her wings from getting clipped hopes that you will continue to write, and contribute here at Chowk. :-)
regards,
ana

NYC nice.
and sameeroo... :-)

The INS Officer tahmed32---LOL

Shaping the Grayness well done! more thoughts later, i hope!