A Perfect Nation? Re: # 38

Thanks. All of us look at things from our unique perspective. A writer must try to present a balanced point of view. This is a very difficult thing indeed.

I still believe in the basic decency of human beings. I interact with American people and majority of them believe in the idea of fairness.

The US is not a Perfect Nation by any stretch of imagination. It certainly has the potential to become one. Nasim

The Clash of Samuel Huntington and Amartya Sen Gopal:

It seems to me that Amartya Sen is on to something. Religion and culture are two completely different entities although they certainly impact each other. In fact a person does have multiple identities.

Muslims in Iran or Afghanistan are completely different than say muslims in the USA. The muslims in the USA also have a large number of identities. Some are Irani Americans, Pakistani Americans and Arab Americans.

Even within say Pakistani Americans there are multiple identities. Majority of pakistani Americans are muslims but there are at least four major groups.

So when Musharraf sided with the USA, every Pakistani did not agree with him.

Frankly, I have changed 180 degree since coming to the USA. Initially, I had negative feelings about Hindus and Jews due to partition in 1947 and then subsequent wars.

In the USA, I have found that good and bad people are in all communities.

The religion in the 21st century is not a matter of choice. It is a matter of birth which beyond anyone control. A person is born in a religion and then shaped by parents and environment.

Now, I have hindu and christian and jews friends and we agree on most of the issues.

So I have a feeling that as communication builds up in this global village, the majority will not be fooled by the politicians or priests.

The People\'s Poet Gill Saheb:

After Bhutto was sent to the gallows, a few friends formed a Committee for democracy and justice in New York. They are left leaning Pakistani students. At that time, I met Fraz in New York many times.

He lived in London during exile. On my business trips, I stopped in London and met Fraz in London pubs. I asked him the question about Faiz. He told me that Sahir Ludhianavi influenced him. Second thing he mentioned that poetry can not be forced. Accoding to him, he was in the USA for six months and every day he tried to write poetry but encountered complete blockage. Then after visiting many places in the USA, he landed in Washington DC. His friend took to Vietnam memorial. There the dam broke and he wrote `` Kali Dewaar``.

My favourite poem is:

Qurbatoon Mein Bhi Judai Key Zamanay Mangay

Dil Woh Be Maher Kay Ronay Kay bahanay Mangay

Hum Na Hotay To Kissi Aur Kay Churchay Hotay

Khalqat-i-Shehr to Sun Nay Ko Fasanay Mangay

Apna Yeh Haal Key Jee haar chukay Lut Bhi Chukay

Aur Mohabbat Wohi Andaz Puranay Mangay

Dil Kissi haal pay Qanaey he Nahein jaan-i Faraz

Mill Gayae Tum bhi To Kya Aur Na Jaaney Mangay

The Pakistani American Hunt Zahraj:

Your comments are becoming more enjoyable indeed when you say,

``I understand that you want to be accepted in your local Islamic Center :) So let me add a few more pointers that should have been there``

Islamic centers do not accept me and I get similar comments from other people who have never even seen the Islamic centers.


I accept this without any prejudice. This article was written for people who physically live in America but keep the Pakistani attitude. Now let me give some statistics.

Pakistani Americans in the USA according to last census are about 250000. I will add another 150000 undocumented to make it 400,000. Out of these only 10% are like people you have referred to in your email. I intereact with them without any problems. I meet them in mixed gathering where Indians, Pakistanis and local Americans meet without any inhibitions. I have many friends who have married white, brown, Latino Americans and live good lives.

However these people are not my audience. These people are highly educated professionals. They are successful in life. They have their own probelms that I would not like go into details.

After the the above 10%, comes a solid middle class that in my persoanl opinion is about 45%. These people are also successful but they have kept their links with Pakistan. These people are the pioneers who have not only built these Islamic centers but also social cultural associations. I know many of them all across America. These people try very hard to retain a link with their religious and cultural traditions. These people are tolerant and do not jump into any religious fanaticism. They want their next generation to have better lives.

Below the middle class I observe a lower middle class. This is about 35% of the total population in the USA. These people are very religious. They the one who have displaced the first generation of professional people in the Islamic centers. They go to a great length in teaching religion to their kids. They work hard and aspire to become rich and successful. These people are having tough time in the USA. You will find these people in every major Pakistani or religious functions. They even invite the Pirs, Ayatullahs and Sajjada Nashins from Pakistan and hold functions where you will feel as if you are in Pakistan.

The last 10% of the population is poor indeed. They go through the grind like every poor person in the USA. I have seen mixing of these people with Americans of all races. It is not their desire to do so. These people do not have good education or good jobs.

I have tried to communicate to the middle and lower middle class of Pakistani Americans. The 10% Pakistanis who are cosmopolitan in outlook have absoultely no problem at all. Their sons or daughters marry anyone they like and these people do not have any mental anguish. They gladly bless such unions. They may not even read any Pakistani newspapers like Chowk or Dawn. The bottom 10% may not be able to read english. So my article can not address them.

Regarding myself, I can assure you that I did not make up observations while sitting in a cozy drawing room. I have seen major American cities and observed a wide cross section of Pakistani Americans from top to bottom. I have deep empathy for Pakistanis as I still have a large number of friends and relatives back home.

So again I suggest that you write about your observations for the benefit of all of us.

The Pakistani American Hunt ZahraJ:

I enjoyed your following comments:

``When it comes to Muslim guys, I have very little respect for them. But this enlightened man is an anomaly. We need more Muslims of this mindset. ``

[Based on my observations, the divorce rate among Pakistani men and America-born women is very high. I know many instances of such failed marriages. However, Pakistan-born girls seem to adjust better in changed environments. Perhaps they are used to male chauvinistic attitudes prevalent in the Pakistani society. The girls born in the USA do not seem to adjust with Pakistani born macho males. So people thinking of going home must think about social attitudes of males and females in Pakistan. ]

``What nonsense! With this kind of thinking, I am sure you must have landed with someone of your kind. In case you are single, then I think we need to start a campaign to hide the women of the world from your kind :)``

This is one of the benefit of writing on Chowk. Since you have very good observations, I suggest that you should write about your life experiences and project your point of view. After reading your post, I admire the style and force that you use in your writing.

All of us pass through our lives and give to life what life has given to us. I accept all the faults that you have found with me and please go ahead and start your campaign to hide the women from my kind.

The Pakistani American Hunt Re: # 28

Salim saheb:

I agree with your ideas. However at what level this assimilation occurs will determine the ultimate fate of Pakistanis. Jews in the USA and Parsi community in India are two prime examples of minorities.

Frankly, the integration and assimilation of minorities is becoming a big issue in Europe where immigrants from former colonies flocked to their imperial masters.

I wrote this article just to draw attention to this issue. Once the people are aware, they can find their own solutions.

Our people physically live in the USA but try to preserve their own culture. That causes great stresses in human relationships.

All of us have own comfort zones. I know people who do not mind drinking, dancing, dating or gambling. At the same time, I have seen people who keep beard, force Hijab on women and then force their kids in marriages.

In this tug of war, many decent people get hurt. So hopefully we can reflect on ourselves and make rational decisions.

The Pakistani American Hunt I have tried to record my observations of Pakistani American people. In fact, a study on such social issues should be done by professional socialogist. However I tried to write down my observations objectively including the number of failed marriages and causes. .

I have also made a statement about inter-racial marriages among low income group. There is nothing extra ordinary about this observation. The morals, values, param para and religion are retained by the middle class in any society.

For the people who are very rich, such things hardly matter. Their focus is on money. Their kids have freedom, resources, money at their disposal. So this group does not have any problem of finding a match anywhere.

The boys and girls from low income group go through a grind at the bottom. With husband and wife working and still not making enough money is hard. This group simply can not control their children effectively. So the children are free to experiment and interact with any one.

I personally know many low income and rich people whose kids have gone into drugs and their kids have married Americans of all races. Again, I do not have statistics to show how many have married outside their ethnic group.

I have also read the comments about using eharmony, dating with whites and opening to other races.

The people who have make such statements should look a little deeper into the lives of Pakistani Americans. Pakistanis are conservative, ethnocentric and prejudiced people. I do not exclude myself from this group.

Not to talk about non-muslims, the majority of Pakistanis like to stay within their small groups. Talk to Shia, Sunni, Ahmedi or Syeds in the Pakistani community. The most liberal Pakistanis will allow their kids to marry muslims from other countries. Even here, I have seen Pakistanis very reluctant to marry their kids with African Americans.

I hope the readers of this article will look into the social issue closely. I have tried to raise passive voices of decent girls whose parents insist on various attributes of prospective groom. The parents keep on looking while decent obedient kids keep on waiting for ideal match.

Lastly, a writer looks at things from a certain vantage point. Other people see the same conditions from a different angle. This makes our life very interesting.

I wish all readers best of luck. Nasim Hassan

East and West Re: # 21

Dear Azzer:

I have lived in the USA for past thirty years and always had great time with Jews, Christians, Hindus and Sikhs. Assimilation in any culture depends on individual circumstances. Some assimilate more than others. You are right in saying that I have not completely merged in this society. For any first generation immigrant, the total assimilation is simply not possible.

I have adopted a large number of attributes of this society because it is not possible to survive without it.

While making an observation, I can not make a judgement about minority in the USA. Similarly while talking about the East, we can not base our judgement on minority. I know people in the East who are much more western in outlook, culture and habits while living in India and Pakistan.

Similarly, I have many friends who were born in the USA but think like Eastern people. But such people as exceptions.

I am very clear in my mind that people have different experiences. This is what make this life very interesting. People look at exactly the same situation and reach their own opinions. The current debate about intelligent design as compared to theory of evolution is a case in point.

I have visited Sweden and Morroco within a period of few months. I have found Swedes very quiet while in Casablanca people just want to talk and discuss anything and everything with you.

I have found the same thing in India and Pakistan. Gossip is our national past-time.

This is my personal observation and I am sure you will observe the situation from a different angle.

Good luck and best wishes,

Nasim Hassan (nhassa@yahoo.com)

An Answer to the Pro War Surrealists There is hardly any time when I see an unbiased, rational reponse to any article. We start to make this as India and Pakistan conflict. Living in India and Pakistan should be a pleasnt memorary and all of us should learn from Western Europe. After second world war, they have learned to live in peace and harmony. Small countries such as Belgium, Finland, Luxembourge, live in peace with France, Germanny and Italy.

The literacy rate is high, social welfare system is great and people are much more aware of global issues. All of this happened after WW2.
Ok, I understand that our minds have been poisoned. But do we have to continue to preach hatred and find faults with everything that other person says or believes.

Here I am talking to educated people of both India and Pakistan. Do we have to continue this tragic misunderstanding or make a new beginning.

If you do not understand me then go to any major city of India, Pakistan, Bangle Desh, Burma and Nepal. You will find poverty, population and pollution. All of these countries have massive problems of basic human needs.

I hope that we start with small steps and understand each other. This is now a very small interdependent World.

Gujrat - The Verdict Of God I commend Mr. Parthasarthy for calling spade a spade. If at any time in future India overcomes communal hatred and the people in power enforce the spirit of the law, India will emerge as a super power.

We have to judge the people as human being first and then what they believe in. The new religion of the World that can not be stopped is the belief in human equality, liberty, human rights and justice for all.

Why America with a population of 280 million people is super power instead of China or India who have populations exceeding 1.0 billion. People wrongly believe that it is natural resources. If it is natural resources then why big Latin American countries like Brazil and Argentina are behind even small countries of Europe like Holland and Belgium.

America may not remain free as it used to be in the past, however basic freedoms have a lot to do with its being a super power. People from all over the World come work hard and get their reward.

Unlike Middle East, America gives freedom to own business, become citizens and vote, own property, run for public office and achieve the goals in life.

Mid East countries do not give equal rights or citizen ship even to their fellow Arabs. Legal workers from other countries have to get permission to go to another city in S. Arabia. So much for Islam and freedom.

With the advent of internet, all people should continue the propagation of the age old message of love and respect for human beings preached by Gotam Buddh, Christ, Moses, Mohammad, Kabir, Nanak and countless others.

Kissinger of Death Rehan:

Your observations are factually wrong and flawed although I believe that Kissinger is not the best man for this job. Kissnger does have a sense of history and he alongwith Nixon in fact changed the course of history.

Kissinger was not the person who started the Viet Nam war, nor he was the person who brought the peace to the Middle East. The so called Domino Theory was not his invention. The left leaning liberals of Kennedy era including Robert Mcnamara started this Viet Nam War.

Kissinger and Nixon started reducing the forces in Nam gradually to save the honour and prestige of the USA. Read and you will find that his efforts were mainly to negotiate orderly withdrawal.

You may not like it, but he is strategic thinker of the World affairs and there is hardly anyone who has come along to guide American foreign policy.

I will say that Clinton in his second term emerged as a president with a first hand knowledge of World. He followed centrist policies.
I know that some readers will condemn his personal character but that would be an immature and idiotic response.

Foreword of Aag ka Dariya Mr. Gill:

I read this novel in sixtees and believe me I could not figure out anything. I was looking for a traditional story line with usual plot and format and it was difficult for me understand the fading out and re-emergence of a character in another time.

I read it again after 20 years and I enjoyed it. Ms. Haider writes from a unique perspective and many times uses english words written in Urdu. For person like me who who can understand simple urdu and early on did not have enough vocab. in english, she is a tough writer to read.

Now I enjoy her books and look forward to reading her new books.

Gill Sahib, where in the USA, I can find her books?

The Perfect Murder Farzana:

Keep it up man? You are doing a great job. Someone has to tell that emperor has no clothes.

Maybe the reason of South Asia being so backward and poverty striken because they were ruled by foreign people for over thousand years. Or they come from such an inferror stock that had to be ruled to keep them on track.

If India believes that USA or not so Great Britain are its best friends they are mistaken.

All European and American countries would love to see both of these countries destroy each other. They want to sell arms to both so that they can make money of poor people.

When these countries have destroyed each other, then and only then UN, USA and Europe will send peace keeping forces. International red cross will be given petty donation to take care cripples.

What a destiny. What surprises me most is the vision of Hindus. There is a saying that English think 50 years ahead of time, Hindu thinks ten years ahead, Muslim think when it is hanging over their head and SardarJi think when the event has already past.

Are Bajpai and George SardarJis? I won`t be surprized.

The Mahatma’s Progeny Farzana

The anger at the massacre in Gujarat is understandable. Frankly, if Muslims had done a similar thing to hindus or christians in such a cold and calculated manner, it would have been an equal tragedy. We in this new century have to start thinking like civilized human beings and condemn cruelty and injustice.

Now coming to Gandhi in your article. An objective history of India shows that he was a great leader of India. Whatever he did and talked was for the upliftment of Indian masses. India needs a number of enlightened leaders like Gandhi and Nehru. Similarly Pakistan also needs many great leaders like Mr. Jinnah.

Nehru laid the foundations of secular India. If Nehru was not in power during formative years of India, then VHP, RSS, Shiv Sena and many other sectarian parties would have come into power much earlier.

Lastly, I believe that most the Muslims in India are the sons of Indian soil living there for centuries. Most of the descendents of foreign invaders have already gone out to Pakistan, Bangla Desh or elsewhere in the World. The majority of converts came from low castes or untouchables. The converted muslims were not treated well by either muslims or hindus. So the poor masses of India continue to suffer even after conversion to Islam.

Why no Middle Eastern Muslim country raise their voice for Indian muslims. When a few Jews or Arabs get killed in Palestine, then the whole World knows about them. When thousands of Indian Muslims are slaughtered in India, there is a brief news in the American media.

Let us acknowledge that all who were killed in Gujarat were human being first and then Hindus, Muslims or christians. Then and only then we can put things in a proper perspective.

Riots India of today is perhaps the most prejudiced country in the present World. This prejudice cuts across many ways. However, religious prejudice is perhaps the worst of a kind.

Where are those followers of Ghandi Ji who preached that India is non violent country?

Subcontinental Chain Reaction The writer has only mentioned Jehadi`s in Pakistan. He is oblivious of the fact that biggest danger to India`s democracy is VHP, RSS, Ranbir Sena and Shiv Sena. In this ever changing World, the real threat comes from within and not from outside.

How in a democracy, the religious fanatics can go on to burn innocent people alive. I do not care what is the religion of people who died. First and foremost they were fellow human beings and equal citizen of Indian State.