Withdrawing from Iraq (Part II): Considering Options Re: # 17
>> ``a tiny 1% controls greater wealth than the rest of the 99% in the US``

What`s your source?

According to the Congessional Budget Office, ``The top one percent of the population received 11.4 percent of national after-tax income in 2002,``
http://www.cbpp.org/3-7-05tax.htm

Who cares if little things (like facts) get in the way, when the objective is to bad mouth America.

Sincerely,
O_M

Bye Bye NAM, Hello Realpolitik! Re: # 133
To: rsridhar
re: #120 by Ordinary_Muslim

This is what I wrote: (Barring it`s failure in Tamil-land, it has a near total record of successfully grabbing territory and walking off with it - no questions asked.)
To which you replied: ``Tamil Nadu is still a part of India.``

Try thinking outside the box. In the eighties, the Tamil enclave in Sri Lanka escaped joining the Indian orbit after Tamil militants took on the IPKF. It`s unfortunate that you have to be taught your own history.

You asked: ``Do they teach you Geography in Madrassas?``
Look at your post and tell me: Do they teach you manners in India?

Sincerely,
Ordinary_Muslim

Bye Bye NAM, Hello Realpolitik! Re: # 67

``there is no guarantee that India will forcibly be able to supress Kashmir``

Let`s take a look at India`s record over the last 50+ years. India has scored a string of violent and successful land grabs. Hyderabad, Junagarh, Kashmir, East Pakistan, Sikkim, Siachen, East Punjab - even Portugal`s (a NATO member) outpost Goa.

Barring it`s failure in Tamil-land, it has a near total record of successfully grabbing territory and walking off with it - no questions asked.

Immigrants: Na Idhar ke, Na uddhar ke Re: # 64

``Is anyone truly and unquestionably happy where they are?``

True and unquestionable happiness exists only in utopia or nirvana - a non-existent land promised by Communists before they delivered hell.

Closer to earth, I feel, here in Canada I am in paradise on earth. It is as close as it gets. Religious, political and economic freedom; what more can one ask for?

Have you ever come across anyone thanking his government for letting him decide how many children he should have? Well, curbing family size is not unthnikable, it is the norm in China, repeat Communist China.

If Israel restricted Arab women to 1 child per family, world opinion would start jumping up and down like a wild pig. But where in Israel or the United States has any Muslim or Arab woman been stopped from a second pregnancy?

``You begin to love freedom a hell of a lot more once you have been denied it for a while?`` heard from a captive American.

Why don`t people like Tariq Ali, Noam Chomsky quit the capitalist west and enjoy the freedoms of the Communist societies they are enamoured of?

``in comparison to the conditions imposed by US tyranny and violence, East Europe under Russian rule was practically a paradise.`` - Noam Chomsky

Iran at the Crossroads – Bombs or Butter? Romair writes, ``The USA is stuck deep in Iraq. ... It has been defeated military by the Iraqi resistance.``

Yes, we have all seen the photos of General George Casey surrendering to Abu Musab Al Zarqawi on board battleship Al Iraqiyah.
*****

“I have always wondered why the USA just doesn`t break off ties or pressurize the Middle East dictators with whom it has excellent relations.”

Why doesn’t Pakistan’s military ruled government break off ties with Middle Eastern monarchs? Ever heard of the saying, “Practice what you preach” ? Or does that apply to others but not to you?
*****

“Iran has a democracy that is decades ahead of all the allies US supports in the Middle East.”

How can the pot be decades ahead of the kettles ? Calling Iran a democracy is like calling Pakistan an Islamic Republic.

Sincerely
O_M

Re-evaluating the First United States—Pakistan Alliance Re: # 6 Stuka Sahib:

``It shows that Nehru was an idiot and though the US tried its best to have a good relationship with India, the damn socialists in power then wrecked every opportunity.``

Indeed. However, Nehru wasn`t a lone idiot. Another idiot was Grand Ayatollah M. K. Gandhi. Consider a couple of his fatwas:

1. Jews should commit suicide in order to avoid the Holocaust.
2. Britain should fight Germany with spiritual weapons, instead of tanks and planes.

Nehru advised his nation to substitute the spinning wheel for textile machinery. I wonder what his successors will suggest as an alternative to the microprocessor. The abacus?


Cordially.

The Iraqi Elections: an Important Watershed Re: # 34
>> the final report of Charles Duelfer to Congress saying that Iraq did not have a significant WMD program

Saddam the Harmless:

It is surprising to see how many people view Saddam in 2003 as a harmless fella - your friendly neighbourhood bully, who wouldn`t harm a butterfly.

Here`s what Duelfer`s report states: ``There is an extensive, yet fragmentary and circumstantial body of evidence suggesting that Saddam pursued a strategy to maintain a capability to return to WMD production after sanctions were lifted by preserving assets and expertise. In addition to preserved capability, we have clear evidence of his intent to resume WMD production as soon as sanctions were lifted. ...

``Huwaysh claimed that in 1999 Saddam asked how long it would take to build a production line for CW agents. Huwaysh tasked four officials to investigate, and they responded that experts could readily prepare a production line for mustard within six months.``

When one has to deal with a barbarian like Saddam, one has to proceed with caution. Trusting Saddam`s word that he had no wmds would amount to suicidal naivete. Romair types can indulge in such irresponsible attitudes because containing Saddam is not their headache; it is Bush`s problem. Such fault-finders of Bush are principally fence-sitters who have nothing positive to contribute, merely to tear down people they bear a grudge against.

``Vulgar people take huge delight in the faults and follies of great men.`` Arthur Schopenhauer

America’s Moral Compass Re: # 123

``In actuality, the USA govt. has been trying its best to avoid holding real elections in Iraq, including this January one. It was forced to hold them by Sistani.``

Can greybeard Sistani force a hyperpower to hold elections? If so why didn`t he force Saddam to hold elections?

All Chowkies should take their hats off to Romair. He gives us guffaws all the time. Many Pakistan military people do not realise that their stupidity will be ridiculed. Chowk is not a Pakistan military unit where brain dead automata believe their CO cannot be wrong.

Perhaps such pseudo intellectuals should remember this saying. ``It`s better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.`` - Abraham Lincoln.

America’s Moral Compass Re: # 133

{If the Saudi monarchy gets toppled by a populist Wahabbi uprising, let it get toppled. If the a popular Islamic brotherhood takes out, ``the five time elected with no opposition`` Mubarak in Egypt, let it happen}


Question for Romair: If democracy at any price is what he recommends, then here`s the question. What if Romair lives in a country where fanatical mullahs win an election. How long will it take him to courageously run away? If Romair does not want to live under mullah-rule (even if it is democratically elected), why should others?

Let`s not forget that Adolf Hitler was democratically elected. If Romair and other America bashers from Pakistan`s military are so fixated on democracry, why didn`t Paksitan`s military accept the results of elections in 1971?

What if a democratically elected mullahcracy results in a mushroom cloud over Manhattan? Sounds far fetched? Well, the September 11 barbarism sounded far-fetched on September 10.

>> Iraq has been destroyed worth an amount of tens to perhaps hundreds of billiions.

Iraq`s GDP is $30 billion ! (Apparently they don`t teach Math or Economics at Risalpur. That`s why Romair types know only fuzzy economics !)

>> If America had simply pressurised Israel to hand over the tiny 3% of land that it is refusing to, and given it $50 billion dollars, most of these problems would have been solved.

So simple !

I wonder if he has heard of this:
``For every problem, there is one solution which is simple, neat and wrong.``--H. L. Mencken (1880--1956), U.S. journalist

Al- Qaeda: The Cutting Edge of Jihadist Movement Re: # 123
HP: First things first. You have correctly identified the K-129 as a Golf class sub, not a Kilo as I had mistakenly stated. The error stands corrected.

John Pina Craven (former Chief Scientist, USN Special Projects Office) writes in ``The Silent War: The Cold War Battle Under the Sea``:

BEGIN QUOTE:
The so-called Golf-class sub was on the surface when the fatal event took place... Each of its missiles` warheads has a high explosive component - and two of the sub`s nuclear warheads were missing. One was obviously torn from its missile and the other was completely out of sight. ... If ``Blind Man`s Bluff`` is correct ... two warheads were outside the sub and the one that could be seen had suffered violent mechanical damage, probably caused by an explosion.

A highly probable scenario is that the submarine was a rogue ... (T)here existed a possibility, small though it might be, that the skipper of this rogue submarine was attempting to launch or had actually launched a ballistic missile with a live warhead in the direction of Hawaii.
END QUOTE

Let`s look at some points that are certain, or highly probable:
1. The sub was renegade.
2. The US announces that it will retrieve the ill fated Soviet sub, but Brezhnev does not raise hell. (What did he fear that Americans will discover and disclose to the world?)
3. The issue remains shrouded in secrecy by BOTH sides even 35 years later.

These lead one to conclude that it was most likely an attempted nuclear strike by a renegade Soviet sub againt Hawaii.

Tom Dougherty adds in ``Raising the K-129: A Tale of the Cold War``

BEGIN QUOTE
As Craven states, the strategy of the CIA in recovering the submarine would makea good deal of sense if the above scenario were true: ``If you do not play ball, and negotiate steps leading to detente, we will retrieve your submarine and demonstrate to the whole world what it planned to do.`` This might explain why, over 34 years after the photographs were made, not a single one has been declassified.
END QUOTE

Al- Qaeda: The Cutting Edge of Jihadist Movement Re: # 123
HP: this is what I wrote; “Secretary Rumsfeld has accepted responsibility for what happened at Abu Ghurayb.”
To which you commented: ``I could not find any thing where Sec. Rumsfeld said anything close to what you are suggesting. ... Feeling terrible and accepting responsibility are two different things.``

Here`s the Secretary`s stance: [The secretary acknowledged that the abuse scandal broke ``on my watch as secretary of defense.``

``I am accountable...I take full responsibility,`` he said.]
Source: http://www.iraqcoalition.org/pressreleases/20040508_rummy_apology.html

BTW, which Pakistani General has accepted responsibility for Ojhri Camp?

---

The First WTC Bombing:
You stated: ``Further, there were plenty of reports about Saddam’s connection to 1994 bombing and 9-11. There has never been any corroborating evidence that can definitely tie Saddam’s hands to both attacks on WTC.

``Iraq and both 1994 and 9-11 have a very plausible and important link but Sadam does not play any role there.``

How come the first WTC attack took place on Feb. 26 1993, exactly three years after the launch of the Ground Offensive? Sheer coincidence, eh?

Listen to what Laurie Mylroie says: ``That, indeed, is the most straightforward explanation of the World Trade Center bombing: that it was an Iraqi intelligence operation, led by Ramzi Yousef, with the local fundamentalists serving first as aides and then as diversionary dupes.``
The link is on the website of The Federation of American Scientists: http://www.fas.org/irp/world/iraq/956-tni.htm

[Laurie Mylroie, formerly of Harvard University and the U.S. Naval War College. is currently with the Foreign Policy Research Institute of Philadelphia. She was co-author of the bestseller, Saddam Hussein and the Crisis in the Gulf (Random House 1990), and has just completed a sequel, `Study of Revenge`: Saddam`s Terror Against America, January 1993-??]

Al- Qaeda: The Cutting Edge of Jihadist Movement Re: # 115

Sridhar: ``The logic that a country having WMD does not get attacked was blown to shreds ...``

It was military affairs expert Ayatollah Romair who threw the fatwa that: ``A country that has WMDs never gets attacked. This has held true through history.``
Try explaining your point to him. But then since he has four times the military experience of Rumsfeld he is also four times smarter than the Secretary of Defence. Rumsfeld has liberated 2 countries while in office. Multiply that by 4 and you have 8 countries liberated by Admiral Romair during his service.

Secretary Rumsfeld has accepted responsibility for what happened at Abu Ghurayb. Do you expect arrogant Pakistani military officers like Romair to accept that they are wrong?

Let`s get back to the point. In 1968 the unthinkable happened. A renegade Soviet Kilo class submarine attempted to launch a nuclear strike against the US. The launch attempt failed due to an accident on board. The Glomar Explorer was able to fish out 2 live nuclear warheads from the Soviet sub that had sank to the bottom of the ocean.

Al- Qaeda: The Cutting Edge of Jihadist Movement Re: # 115

Sridhar: ``The logic that a country having WMD does not get attacked was blown to shreds ...``

It was military affairs expert Ayatollah Romair who threw the fatwa that: ``A country that has WMDs never gets attacked. This has held true through history.``
Try explaining your point to him. But then since he has four times the military experience of Rumsfeld he is also four times smarter than the Secretary of Defence. Rumsfeld has liberated 2 countries while in office. Multiply that by 4 and you have 8 countries liberated by Admiral Romair during his service.

Secretary Rumsfeld has accepted responsibility for what happened at Abu Ghurayb. Do you expect arrogant Pakistani military officers like Romair to accept that they are wrong?

Let`s get back to the point. In 1968 the unthinkable happened. A renegade Soviet Kilo class submarine attempted to launch a nuclear strike against the US. The launch attempt failed due to an accident on board. The Glomar Explorer was able to fish out 2 live nuclear warheads from the Soviet sub that had sank to the bottom of the ocean.

Al- Qaeda: The Cutting Edge of Jihadist Movement Re: # 114
T Ahmed Sahib you wrote: ``saddam hussein ... was rendered incapable of doing any harm to anyone except to his iraqi subjects after the first gulf war.``

With all due respect to your viewpoint, do keep in mind the following:

1. The Oil-for-Palaces-er-Food program was the largest rip-off of a humanitarian mission in human history. Billions of dollars were siphoned off by Saddam.
2. In asymmetric war, you need merely a shoe-string budget to inflict enormous harm on a much larger power. For instance, Al Qaeda launched the September 11 attacks with merely $500,000. So you can surely figure out how much harm Saddam was capable of inflicting with his ill-gotten billions. All he had to do was to find a non-state actor (e.g. OBL) to carry out his business, the murder business. Rest assured that fellow travellers like Romair and Michael Moore will vouch for the fact that Saddam and Al Qaeda had nothing to do with each other. (Plausible deniability my friend.)

Saddam Hussein was not a harmless fella, no matter how hard Chomsky, Said and Moore try to spin. He was a capable fella. If he was capable of building palaces despite sanctions, he was also capable of assorted mischief despite containment. No containment is fool-proof.

Al- Qaeda: The Cutting Edge of Jihadist Movement Re: # 107
It`s encouraging to debate with someone who is not blinded with an anti-American grude. So I choose to respond to what you posted: ``I doubt if anyone every seriously thought that saddam was an imminent threat to anyone other than to his own long-suffering population.``

Was Saddam an imminent threat in 2003. Well, consider this. On Feb. 26, 1993 Saddam Hussein attempted to topple the North Tower of the World Trade Center onto the South Tower. His game plan was to attack the building at its base. (Not being an architect, he failed to realise that buildings are strongest at their base. He also failed to realise his goal of avenging the mother-of-all-defeats by attempting to kill upto 250,000 civilians in the twin towers.)

The perpetrator of this scheme, Abu Hajer al-Iraqi, promptly fed to a safe-house in Iraq.

Does the date Feb. 26 ring a bell? It was the third anniversay of the kick-off of Desert Storm`s ground offensive. Attempting to murder upto a quarter million people was Saddam`s way of celebrating an anniversary.

In early 1998, Saddam provided $300,000 to Al Qaeda; the Central Intelligence Agency has confirmed. How much bang for 300,000 bucks can be expected? According to British estimates, the Sept. 11 operation cost Al Qaeda $500,000.

If the world thinks Saddam Hussein was a harmless fella then it can afford to live in fantasy-land. Such a luxury of ostrich like behaviour is possible as long as there are resolute people who understood the threat posed by Saddam, and had the will to act against it. People like Rumsfeld and Bush.

(As an aside: George Bush dodged military service by enrolling in the Texas Air National Guard, serving 4 years full-time and part time. The Texas ANG, as military experts like Romair can confirm, is a club for singing and dancing, absolutely nothing to do with the rigours of military life. And darn Rumsfeld, who hasn`t come within a light year of an air base, a privilege enjoyed only by Romair.)

Al- Qaeda: The Cutting Edge of Jihadist Movement Re: # 80
``A country that has WMDs never gets attacked. This has held true through history.``

** 1973: Arabs attack Israel.
** 1969: Peace loving Soviet and Chinese Communists fight it out along the Ussuri river.
** 1979-90: Peace loving Soviet army in Afghanistan remains hunkered down as guerrillas continue harassing them with hit-and-run tactics.
** 2001: The Great Satan, possessing thousands of nuclear weapons, is attacked by stateless rogues based in rogue states.

---

``The USA ... knew Iraq did not have WMDs.``

In their zeal to ``prove`` that Bush is lying, the dishonest, America bashing pseudo intellectuals fence themselves into a corner. If America knew that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction:

** Why were US troops in MOPP suits despite temperatures above 100 Fahrenheit?
** Why didn`t it plant WMDs after toppling Saddam?

Here`s what the Washington Post said: ``In 1995, after denying in 1991 it had any biological warfare program, Iraq admitted it had produced 166 R-400 bombs that were filled with biological agents including anthrax spores. It also said that during the Persian Gulf War in 1991 the bombs were taken from military facilities and buried at two locations, one along the Euphrates River.

``When the (Iran-Iraq) war ended, the Iraqis said they destroyed all the bombs by blowing them up at two separate sites. While they described in detail the manner of the destruction, they never produced documents on who ordered or carried out the destruction.``

There you have it.
1. Iraq admitted to producing biological weapons.
2. Iraq failed to prove it destroyed them.
Juxtapose 1. and 2., and even a schoolchild will conclude that Saddam possessed weapons of mass destruction. But then the intellectual level of the pseudo-intellectuals is below that of schoolkids.

By accusing Bush of lying, they raised certain questions. Questions they dared not touch with a barge pole. Whatever happened to the 8,500 litres of anthrax spores Saddam failed to account for? Or the 375 tons of VX pre-cursors Iraq admitted to have produced? Did they vanish in thin air ? Or maybe Romair`s dog ate them.