Sex and Pakistan vs. Rape and The World Media Re: # 110

>>For one Quran does institutionalise rape of kafir woman.

Where does it do that?

Islam vs. Islam Re: # 8

The only thing I had remebered from this song was the line Teen kanastar...and the way Rafi sang those words. Thank you for the lyrics. Do you have a link for the audio.

Regards.

Rolling Stones oops! I misspelled your name...sorry.

Rolling Stones Humaira,

Thank you for this nice article. I hope you invite non-desis to your huge parties.

Sanity ``When nobody cared to listen to her, she started painting her thoughts.``

Profound!

Thanks.

The Mullah and the Munir Report Amit, you ask:
“Clearly this is a recent phenomenon because before partition Ahmadis must have felt that they were muslims in order to actually fight for Pakistan. So what changed in the past few decades?”

The force of the state was put behind the religious persecution of Ahmadis.

The acts of persecution had always existed, but there was recourse to an impartial state for safety and justice. This was true in the early years of Pakistan (case in point the Munir Report). This is unfortunately no longer true.

BTW, this seems to be the case for all minorities and if the trend continues the Shias are not that far behind.

Regards.

The Mullah and the Munir Report I found the entire Munir Report online:

http://aaiil.org/text/books/others/misc/munirreport/munirreport.shtml

Regards.

Bari Imam’s Republic of Peeristan I was kind’a wondering about that. But given the abstruse nature of our discussion, I figured keh shaid koyee oonchi baat keh gai ha… better not to ask varna baisti na ho jai…

:-)) no worries.

Bari Imam’s Republic of Peeristan A correction to my earlier posting: it is Bikram Choudry (the yoga guru) and not Vikram.

SameerBJ,

As tempting as it is to engage in further discussion, I currently have better occupations for my time, perhaps you do as well, therefore please accept my regrets.

May you increase in knowledge.

Regards.

p.s. One last anecdote before I leave. A friend who is an Afridi Pathan by birth once told me that being a pathan is a state of mind: it has little to do with the area you were born in.

Bari Imam’s Republic of Peeristan Exploitation of others is indeed a manifestation of the lower human desires overcoming the higher self; keeping the rights of others in mind is never the hallmark of such an individual.

It is truly sad if the Brelvis, Deobandi and Wahabis have portrayed such an negative image of Islam that you would be compelled to equate gathering of haj with that if any other urs. There are always people who would be cantankerous when discussing religion, but I do find some blame to be on the contemporary Muslim side as well.

There was a professor who once told me that, in times gone by, Muslims were successful because they considered themselves to be a part of a better value system and, most importantly, they let others be the judge of the excellence of their belief. This in his opinion was not the case in the present time, now what remained at best was just the belief that their value system is better, with little else to show for it.

You are correct in that exchanging sura Ikhlas (and not sura ahad…you are forgiven) with any other sura is not a mind shift. The mind shift is in understanding what you are saying and acting upon it. Unless you believe that a particular mantra or sound would do something for you: a common belief in eastern religions.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with a dear friend, an artist, an architect and a one-time cartoonist for The Nation (Pakistan). We were walking after the iftaar and all around there were sounds of tarawhi prayers. I was taken aback by the speed of the recitation and remarked that I couldn’t even make out the separate words much less figure out what was being said. He replied “oh yaar, siraf sunna hota ha (implying that one just has to listen to the voice). My point in brining up his qualifications was to contrast his statement regarding matters of religion with his abilities otherwise.

But SameeBJ is this state of affairs only with Muslims and in Pakistan? What about Guru Rajnesh, who is able to exploit seemingly heads-up individual in the US of A? I mean we do not have the indoctrination, the shariat or the lack of education: there is nothing but challenge to submission in that society. And yet we see same piri-mureedi.

What about people prostrating before Gurumayi (quite a beautiful Indian lady I must confess). I have seen this with my own eyes. Supposedly highly educated doctors and research scientists, prostrating before her picture. I mean it is one thing to bow before a supra-human deity, but a human being!!! And to top it all after the prostration, they all dutifully deposited a handful of dollars each in a small basket.

What about the yogis like Vikram (of Bikram yoga fame) who has been accused of exploiting his position as a teacher and having illicit sexual relations with his students. He said in a recent interview in Newsweek magazine, “No one can mess with me…I have balls like atom-bomb” I laughed when I read this, as I could imagine him saying this in a desi accent J

Or maybe yogi Amrit Desai, who it was stated in that same Newsweek piece that he had to resign from his asharam for charges of sexually exploiting his students.

And the recent “witch-burnings” in India.

The victims here were probably non-Muslims, non-Pakistanis, educated, and had nothing to do with a third world environment.

Anyways. I don’t think I have much more to add to this discussion. I have exhausted my list of interesting anecdotes :-)

Thanks and Regards.

Bari Imam’s Republic of Peeristan Two points:

ZahraJ,

As the quantity of the idiots and crooks keeps on increasing, there will be fewer and fewer non-idiots (for lack of a better term) who will be available for the saint to impart the true knowledge.

Plus, unless the saint “feels” or is commissioned by God (take your pick) to actually impart his knowledge/wisdom to others, why should he (or she)? Historically this seems to be the tariqa (pun intended) of these personages.


nasah,

To feed and shelter homeless at Data Sahib is one thing; Amir Khusro’s creation of the genre of qwwali as a vehicle for enhancing his relationship with his sufi master is one thing; however to go and pray (and not for the deceased) at data sahib or at Ajmer is quite another. How did this come about?

I am not sure if these urses (I like this term) are completely harmless, I see them more as a slippery slope. I hope that this does not make me a wahabi ;-)


Regards.

Bari Imam’s Republic of Peeristan a bit more on the sex connection:

There is a pir in hira-mundi called pir kaki-taar. He conducts what he calls a roohani-mujra, in which the dance performed by his courtesan-followers produces a mystical effect on the viewers (or so he claims). Some years ago this ``roohani`` mehfil, being conducted in a 5-star hotel in Islamabad, was busted by the police and made headlines the next day. Apparently some top bureaucrats were found in a mystical trance in that same gathering. He again made headline a few years later when a similar mehfil was busted in Lahore.

It is sad indeed, that apparently we have only these characters as an alternative to the khushk (dry) ``Islam`` of the mullah. Call it whatever you want, but there is an innate need of us humans to seek a higher power for assistance. It is Universal. You find people going to these pirs and Sufis in Pakistan and you find people prostrating before gurus and other supposedly “awakened” individuals in the US. Not much difference between the high level bureaucrat visiting a pir in Golra Sharif and an educated lawyer from the East Coast of the US going and doing guru-seva in the mountains of up upstate New York at guru-mai’s ashram.

nazarhayatkhan saheb, I agree with you in that people misplace spirituality with the antics of these jokers, however I believe that separating the genuine from the fake is a tall order. The “we”, whom you are asking to take corrective action, unfortunately do not have a (recent) history of applying their intellectual capital to religion, as they do to other matters of life. That is why you have, otherwise heads-up people going to these pirs and gurus.

SameerBJ I like your analogy of cigarettes :-)

Desi Aristocrats Ibrar-ul-haq said this about ``Billo`` in his song:

``peeni Pepsi, tay khanay burger

bullay ni khorakan teri-yan``

Does this make Billo an aristrocrat? ;-)

Giving Way to Intolerance

---start of quote from the article------

The first crisis of a religious nature was created in November 1947, when the Majlis-i-Ahrar-i-Hind announced its revival as a party in Pakistan. The Majlis-i-Ahrar, organised in 1931, had opposed all other religious organisations aof Muslims, and the separatist politics of All India Muslim League. And in doing so, the leaders of this organisation had abused and maligned Quaid-e-Azam Mohammed Ali Jinnah and other prominent leaders of the Pakistan movement.

According to intelligence reports dating back to pre-independence and post independence days and governor punjab Sardar Abdur Rab Nashtar, obscene and filthy language was the trademark of the Ahraris.

When they announced their revival at a Karachi convention on November 18, 1947, they stuck to these traditions and abused the Quaid-i-Azam, and held him responsible for the abduction and rape of 50,000 Muslim women at the time of independence. They alleged that ``Jinnah was in a hurry to become the Governor General of Pakistan and sacrificed the lives and honour of millions of Muslims for the purpose.`` The Ahrar leaders also abused foreign minister Chaudhri Zafarullah and the prime minister`s wife, Begum Raana Liaquat Ali. ``

---end quote

Our ``esteemed`` president, Rafiq Tarar was one of the most active members of the Ahrar movement. Due to his zeal and commitment, the founder/leader of the Ahrar movement used to say, ``he is my fourth son`` (he already had three sons).

Sadly, I don`t think we are even on the path to learning from our history.

Regards,

malangi

Btw, this information is based on an article from the Herald magazine. I don`t remember the exact issue, but it was the one that came out right after Rafiq Tarar became the president.