Two Phases of Indian Secularism Bhugidar Singh,

I am not sure if you are a Sikh or just another agent provocateur venting his bile. Whatever your persuasion it is pretty clear that either you are one of those woolly-headed ``Sikh-Americans/Britons (the latter have formed their own political party!) or just another Rush Limbaugh locked up in a soundproof box with a mike in hand.

The much maligned RSS has for all its existence maintained a very cordial and understanding position toward all Sikhs. This even when Khalistani terrorists used to target RSS shakhas in Punjab during the height of the terrorist menace in the early 1990s. That is why the RSS is back in full force in Punjab today. And in any case if you haven`t taken a cab in NYC lately hop in ASAP. Your friendly Sardar will tell you why he is very happy to be called an Indian cabbie - those Pakis were all terrorists - good riddance. With Hindu and Sikhs continuing to maintain their cordial relations in India it doesn`t matter one whit what Sikhs in other parts of the world want to holler about- Khalistan or Lotastaan - it makes no difference.

The Unmaking Of Gujrat Qusman1,

Au contraire Pakistan prides itself on the treatment of its minorities and many other things (not that the world at large buys it!) India has witnessed horrific communal violence perpetrated by intemperate groups of Muslims ofr most of the 20th century. Ambedkar (who is by no means communal) recounts every major occurence from 1920 to 1940 in his masterful exposition on the question of Pakistan (www.ambedkar.org/pakistan - chapter VII) including the infamous Moplah pogrom of 1922 in Kerala which left 1000s of Hindus dead. As for Gujarat itself does anyone know that over 7000 Hindus are in custody pending trial for their role in the riots vs. 3000 Muslims for a similar reason? Does anyone know that over 200 Hindus were killed in firings and police action used to quell the riots? This tendency to quote at length from the self-same news sources which in turn are based on 2nd and 3rd hand sources leads us nowhere.

The Kashmir Committee: Ram in U.S Madrassas in India are not `regulated` in any way. Some states (such as my own Tamil Nadu) have what is called an Oriental Board of Education which regulates and conducts examinations for students who choose to take the traditional course of studies either thru Sanskrit/Tamil or thru Arabic/Persian/Urdu. In West Bengal when a comunist CM wanted to document and register Madrasas the politburo came down heavily on him. The madrasas in West Bengal are dens of hate. Although many of them teach in Bengali the standard texts of Vidyasagar and Tagore (that are used even in Bangladesh) are not used here. A virulently sectarian and parochial curriculum is followed. In a state like UP madrasaas have gone out of control. In contrast the religious schools I have seen in Tamil Nadu run for Muslim boys are very well managed - I shd know as I have been involved in teacher training for them. Children here are taught the Koran; Tamil, Hindi and English. The quality of instruction is quite good. Strictly speaking these are not madrasas as religious instruction is not the only activity here.

Moderate Muslims Attacks on the Prophet in Nigeria? Good heavens! Is that what you call it? Isioma Daniel made a tongue in cheek remark and was threatened with death. So it was an attack on Isioma and freedom of speech not on the Prophet.

The Unmaking Of Gujrat For those who wonder how ``educated`` Indians can support the VHP - have you wondered how ``educated`` people like Jinnah turned into blood-thirsty hounds on Direct Action Day when the streets of Bengal ran red with the blood of Hindus. Or the Partition when over a period of months the Hindu proportion of Pakistan declined from about 20% to 3% and to the now less than 1%. An oft repeated argument by India`s loony lefty and chamcha socialists (like Mani Shankar Iyer) is how a `fundamentalist` party like the BJP in India has a significant share of votes while fundamentalist parties in Pakistan have always polled insignificant numbers. The absurdity and ignorance behind this argument is appalling. Pakistan is an Islamic State founded for the Muslims of the Indian subcontinent (never mind that ancestors of 140 million of them have turned their backs on it resolutely 55 years ago and have never regretted the decision). Islamic theocracy underlies the institutuinal framework of Pakistan. A non-Muslim can`t hold positions of power by law (or any other way either). The armed forces are wedded to the concept of jihad and gallantry awards are given away to soldiers ``who have despatched the kafir/infidel to jahannum`` and/or earned jannat for themselves. All this is just for starters. So in this situation the theocratic attitude is just one of degree. All parties in Pakistan are inherently theocratic and are (for the sake of argument) different shades of the BJP. So whicever party rules in Pakistan - the nation-state continues to be a theocratic one where non-Muslims are 2nd class citizens as per the traditional Islamic statecraft. In countries like Saudi Arabia the policy is followed to its extreme - in Pakistan it is followed in degrees. In Bangladesh it is fast developing into a mini-Saudi after the December 2001 pogrom against Hindus.

The Kashmir Committee: Ram in U.S Ras,

The Pak Army/State will not wind up terrorism in JK or anywhere else for that matter on its own - it will be forced by the weight of circumstances some day. Apart from terrorism and running the fat business rackets in Pakistan the Pak Armed forces know nothing else. In the unlikely event that this does happen like one turns off the fan switch on getting up every morning the next task will be for Pakistan to withdraw from the parts of Jammu and Kashmir that have been illegally occupied by it for over 55 years. And then the real job of building a new nation state west of the Indus will begin - free of the grandiose notions of past bequeathed by Jinnah. The sooner nations learn their place in the world`s scheme of things the better and past glory is not necessary for economic or political power. Look at a nation like Singapore or Austria that despite being tiny lands have come to command weighty influence.

Generals: A case study (I) Having little or no experience with politics and civilian institutions Pakistanis in general tend to be wary or even dismissive of the abilities of a politician. That would be a serious mistake. Running a civil society and ultimately a democracy the best form of a state - requires compromise on a 1000 different matters - it requires being sensitive to public opinion and heeding it as the ultimate verdict - accepting that the people are sovereign and it is their verdict that is ultimately prevails. Politics is the art of the possible and involves balancing conflicting interests - the long term with the short term. It is a work of great skill and a fine art. Politicians are the vilest folk but the best to run a modern nation state. India has historically been a conglomeration of republics and quasi democracies. The monarch in traditional Indian folklore is responsible to the people-and the first act that a King was expected to do on coronation was to bow to his people. That fine tradition is what has helped India to become the world`s largest democracy ever over the last 50 years. The political process has been set in stone and has proven more than sufficient to guide this country on its way to the future. Consensual democracies produce sane decisions and wholesome results. We Indians find this entire debate about the `role of the Army` in Pakistan puerile. C`mon apart from protecting the borders what other role does an Army have? It is obvious isn`t it? When an Advani or Sonia or even a Lalloo or Jaya talk they do with the strength of a people`s mandate a people to whom they must return every now and then and renew their legitimacy. Not a man in uniform who has ovewrthrown a democratically elected leader. Pakistan unfortunately has never managed to create institutions from its earliest stages. Unless that happens political instability will dog Pakistan. There are many things Pakistan could learn from Inida. Instead of trying to play catch-up on IT etc., it could learn to emulate India`s institutions. For a start a fresh constitution could be drawn up with Indian help and advice and then the judiciary, police and civil services could follow. These are things that China, SKorea and Taiwan cannot teach! India is helping Afghanistan to get its act together - Pakistan could also benefit from the experiment.

The Unmaking Of Gujrat Now that the Gujarat elections are over supervised by yet another tough as nails Election Commissioner (not some two-bit Brigadier or Lance Naik in khaki); the results must be expected. To talk of rigging is probably displaying lunacy and/or idiocy! The Congress and its chamchas (which includes all parties except the BJP and the leftists) have always followed a divide and rule policy wrt the Hindus. Since caste divisions have remained a serious problem within the Hindu fold. The BJP/RSS/VHP as well as the Shiv Sena have worked hard to dissolve caste divisions for years while the `secular` press from its airconditioned armchairs has hurled epithet after foul epithet and called them all sorts of names. The Sena in any case has always been a anti-upper caste party as Bal`s father Prabodhankar Thackeray was anti-brahmin much in the same way as the early Justice Party stalwarts of Tamil Nadu; and a mentor of the Raja of Kolhapur who introduced reservations in his State in the 20s. The BJP/RSS/VHP have long ago abandoned the upper caste anchors and are today the most egalitarian outfits in India. This it has done with a vengeance in order to draw the widest possible crowd into its folds. In UP the one time BJP stalwart Kalraj Mishra a brahmin gave way to Kalyan Singh a Lodh (same as Uma Bharati) who in turn when he rebelled was thrown out into the wilderness and replaced by the fiery Vinay Katiyar. The way the party has allied with Mayawati of the BSP and forged a successful alliance with the Dalits has completely ruffed Mulayam Singh from without and within. In Gujarat the party has made deep inroads among the weaker sections of society and several Dalits and `tribals` today occupy positions of power in the party. The violence in Dangs in 1998 actually began with an aggressive campaign by Christian groups to oust the VHP from the district. A group of miscreants ran amok and defiled a Hanuman shrine. A newly converted Christian whose family owned that land with this shrine then ``gave away`` the temple to his Church who then systematically pulled down the temple. This naturally sparked violence and the usual retribution. The Gujarat Samachar carried reports of these incidents for over six months and attempts of the district administration to bring peace. The English press got into the act very late and promptly manufactured the ``crisis and riot``. The incidents are well documented. Instead of accepting the gradual failure of its divide and rule policy the Congress and to a large extent the `secular press` keeps inventing these demons of `majoritarianism` and ``Hindutvaisation`` and other such claptrap. While an integration of Hindu society isn`t going to happen overnight - it will slowly but surely. There are big hurdles to be crossed and the progress is there for everyone to see. Musharaff by rubbishing the Gujarati in the UN touched a raw nerve. The Guju may be a crass business-minded sharp who isn`t bothered about things like pride etc. and only wants to make a fast buck. That could well be wrong. This election has shown up the futility if trying to play with Hindu sentiments.

Piece of What? Roy and Ram and Co., must after all bring their crackpot theories to Pakistan - for they cannot withstand an intellectual confrontation in India. Third rate intellectualism on the part of Jinnah made Pakistan a disaster from the word go. Third rate ``activism`` this time by Indian crackpots isn`t going to help either.

Piece of What? A Bangladeshi heading Amnesty International? A country where the events of autumn 2001 made Milosevic blush? Where an open season was declared on all things and persons Hindu? Where the party in power has publicly proclaimed that it will erase anything and everything Hindu from the face of the land? What a laugh!

India’s Potential Lose-Lose-Lose Scenario Kashmir a secular and independent country! get outta here! a piece of land 100 x 150 miles - a valley - wants to be an independent country? these jackasses live off Indian tax-payers` money and Indian tourists` money and want an independent country? get lost! every part of India belongs to every one of its citizens - Art.370 be damned! secular no problem. let`s get back all the pandits who have been driven out of Kasmir Valley since 1946 and also let people from all over India come to settle down in the Valley. Let`s give these scum a taste of their own medicine.

India’s Potential Lose-Lose-Lose Scenario Fuzair,

A nation-state is not a piece of property so questions of paramountcy are irrelevant. Read Ambedkar for a thorough refutation of this idiotic thesis. The Indian leadership that won freedom for the Indian sub-continent (and yes that includes present-day Pakistan as well!) considered British/UK/Imperial paramountcy as unwanted, unwarranted, illegitimate (by India`s own legal principles). India wasn`t a piece of property conveyed by sale to an Indian leadership. The Indian leadership acted on behalf of its sovereign constituents to throw out a rapacious hegemon. In deciding the contours of the new Indian State the boundaries of British India were used as an indicative guide. But more important was the ancient concept of India in the pre-nation state times (as Ambedkar so convincingly proves) that India was guided by and rightly so. Take it or leave it! That`s it! While Jinnah with his limited intelligence put forward some sophomric arguments about J&K (While doing as much in the case of Balochistan) the Indian leadership moved quickly to do away with the Princely States. There were an anachronism in any case! You can rave and rant and rail against it as much as you want. It doesn`t mean a thing!

Happy 56th Anniversary, Pakistan and India YLH & Co.,

Quit this infantile posturing. This is the best possible message that you Pakistanis could have got on August 14 2002. It accurately sums up everything that is wrong with the State of Pakistan - a tinpot in charge of a fractured polity that lives on the dole; whose chief export is terrorist thugs. Get off this pretence of rhetoric and get down to work.

Nirupama Rao - Spokesperson - Ministry of External Affairs, India.

`Empty Rhetoric`

``Perhaps it is the contrast between free and fair elections in Jammu & Kashmir within the framework of India`s democracy and the national elections in Pakistan conducted by a military regime that worries him.``

Nirupama Rao

Full text of the statement by MEA official spokesperson.

We are not surprised by General Musharraf’s empty rhetoric on Jammu & Kashmir in his address on the occasion of the Independence Day of Pakistan, though we would have expected him to use the opportunity to convey a more constructive message rather than re-cycle hackneyed thinking.

It is becoming increasingly clear, as we had suspected all along, that General Musharraf has no intention of putting an end to the involvement of the Pakistani State and its agencies with terrorism, including cross border terrorism. Our past skepticism, based on the wide gap between his words and actions, has once again been justified.

Instead of indicating what further measures he intended to take to end cross border infiltration and terrorism, in keeping with his commitments of January 12, May 27 and June 06, he has only repeated the time worn and frayed formulations about so-called ‘self-determination’, and ‘core dispute’.

The ‘sacred trust’ that he spoke about to the people of Pakistan should really be to establish a moderate and democratic Pakistan, free from military rule and networks of fundamentalist terrorism.

After the rigged referendum in Pakistan and constitutional and political manipulations that are going on before the October elections there, one would have hoped that General Musharraf would have been more restrained in his pronouncements on elections in Jammu & Kashmir in September and October. Perhaps it is the contrast between free and fair elections in Jammu & Kashmir within the framework of India’s democracy and the national elections in Pakistan conducted by a military regime that worries him.

His denigration of the electoral process in Jammu & Kashmir and indirect exhortations to boycott the elections, coupled with disowning responsibility for terrorist activity sponsored to disrupt the electoral process in Jammu & Kashmir, indicate that our concerns that Pakistan intends to sabotage these elections are well founded. Conduct of peaceful elections in Jammu & Kashmir is linked to Pakistan’s peaceful conduct, and this responsibility General Musharraf does not seem to want to discharge.

General Musharraf has referred ironically, to those that the Pakistani State has ‘guided’ and nurtured for years to conduct terrorist activities in pursuit of Pakistan’s objectives, as a ‘misguided’ minority which is carrying out terrorist attacks inside Pakistan. It is time Pakistan learnt the right lessons from this situation.

It is regrettable that General Musharraf should continue to indulge in such negative posturing and seek to heighten tensions by provocative language. We have taken note of his intention to disrupt peaceful elections in Jammu & Kashmir and to continue his hostile postures towards India. The Government of India will take the necessary measures to counter Pakistan’s designs.

New Delhi

August 14, 2002

India’s Potential Lose-Lose-Lose Scenario Romair/Umair Raja aka whatever;

If you want to get into poetic mode don`t write ``analytical`` pieces like these. Are we take it that Pakistani Intelligence is as much an oxymoron as Pakistani Democracy?

India’s Potential Lose-Lose-Lose Scenario Again a brilliant article from TVR Shenoy - he lays it down as it really is in Pakistan. Hard to accept but it`s true. Delusions didn`t get Jinnah anywhere. And Musharraf?..

T V R SHENOY

Thursday , August 15, 2002



India, US and Pakistan-ism



I wish Pakistan’s unelected autocrat would make up his mind whether he wishes to be one of the United States’ hounds or to run with the Osamas of the world as they scurry into the nearest rabbits’ hole.

Some might argue General Musharraf has a third option: to stand as Homo Sapiens should. Alas, fifty-five years of a bankrupt ideology have ensured that Pakistan’s self-nominated president may only choose before which set of masters his nation must crawl. One must, however, admire the skill with which Musharraf seeks to postpone the evil day when he confesses to his people that the US operates almost as freely in Pakistan as do Al Qaeda, the Taliban, and the rest of that unholy crew.

There is, I suppose, a fourth option. In the film Wag The Dog, an American chief executive went to war to divert the media from his personal peccadilloes. In the same spirit, Musharraf tried to stage a Kargil Part-II a few weeks ago, sending his young men to steal back onto those icy heights. (The sole difference from 1999 was that these boys were allowed to keep their uniforms rather than persist in the fiction of being independent ‘‘freedom fighters’’).

India struck back using air force planes. (One of the lessons of Kargil-I was the requirement of inter-service cooperation.) The general whined, but Washington was, shall we say, less than helpful. So, Musharraf drew back, deprived of the chance to unite Pakistanis behind him by staging a war scare.

Frankly, I am more worried by the aborted Kargil-II than I was by the 1999 incursion. What happened three years ago was the product of a cold-blooded tactician’s mind; in 2002, one is left wondering what the Pakistani dictator hoped to achieve. Did he expect New Delhi to be milder than in 1999? India and Pakistan came to the brink of all-out war thanks to that attack on Parliament; what did the general imagine would happen if his armed soldiers openly invaded Indian territory?



It says something of Pakistan’s image that everybody believes Musharraf’s replacement would be an Islamic fundamentalist to the bone





Experts debate the extent to which Musharraf is in charge of Pakistan, given that terrorists were given their head for decades. Given the incredibly shallow thinking that seems to have gone into Kargil-II, one questions the extent to which Musharraf is in charge of himself! Lashing out blindly is scarcely the mark of the great tactician he is supposed to be.

It puts a question mark on the favourite American excuse for standing by Musharraf: namely that he is better than the alternative. Is an irrational man to be cossetted for fear of the fundamentalist to follow? It says something of Pakistan’s image that everybody believes Musharraf’s replacement shall be an Islamic fundamentalist to the bone. Yet that is a problem which shall have to be met sooner or later by all concerned, whether India or the US. For fifty-five years, Pakistanis have been fed on the poison of anti-India, anti-democratic rhetoric. Musharraf’s generation was probably the last to be given a reasonably secular schooling (and I am none too sure of that). The next generation of Pakistani Army officers, the dictators of tomorrow, are bound to be worse. One might try to ignore the dilemma today, but it will still be around tomorrow.

I recall an interview with William Shirer where he said he wasn’t scared of Hitler as much as of the ‘Hitler Youth’, that generation kept on a diet of intolerance from birth. When I look at Pakistan and I see the older men fading, I know exactly how he felt. But this is a dilemma as much for the US as it is for us.

Shortly after the September 11 attacks, President Bush vowed that the US would not rest until it had won the war on terrorism. He did not, however, define the aims that would enable him to declare victory. Is the war on terrorism confined to hunting down Mullah Omar and Osama bin Laden? It would be instructive here to look at the think-tanks in the US. Several schools take the long-term, strategic view that the fight is against the philosophy of Pakistan itself, not just individuals like bin Laden. What is this Pakistan-ism? Essentially, the belief that Muslims cannot live on equal terms in a society with believers in other faiths, the real reason for Partition.

And how does one deal with this? Drawing on the lessons of the past, they point to Germany and Japan, militaristic societies that could not be defanged until defeated. (Democracy and toleration were forced down German and Japanese throats in a manner that was neither democratic nor tolerant). Many influential Americans believe it will take more of the same medicine to cure the Pakistani disease.

I heard a curious story about how far the malady has spread. When an Indian spoke of the 15 per cent minority in India, a Pakistani bureaucrat responded that his country had a 17 per cent minority. It turned out he was referring to Shia Muslims!

What should India’s reaction be to the growing American presence in Pakistan? Some in the foreign office have responded with a knee-jerk reaction: any foreign presence is bad. This is silly. It is stupid, first, because there is no way India can prevent it, and empty talk makes us look impotent. And it is stupid, secondly, because the only way Pakistan shall change is under American pressure.

On the fifty-fifth anniversary of independence, India must realise that it has enough strength to throw away the crutches of the past. We should never become an American poodle, but unthinking opposition is as absurd as blind support.

URL: http://www.indian-express.com/columnists/full_column.php?content_id=7663

© 2002: Indian Express Newspapers (Bombay) Ltd. All rights reserved throughout the world.

India’s Potential Lose-Lose-Lose Scenario If Prof.Aslam Piracha is the best that Pakistani Universities have to offer; God Save Pakistan!