India’s Potential Lose-Lose-Lose Scenario Umair Raja is one of those ``new Pakistanis`` who want ``saanp bhi maare aur laathi bhi na toote``. Their is this fantasy of imagination where Pakistan somehow slips out of the noose of its own making - a grave that it has dug of its own accord - a shroud that it has stitched all by itself - a coffin it has hewn all by itself. Thus we have that pathetic piece of prose ``King`s Gambit`` where Israel one fine day wakes up and decides to bomb Pakistan! Israel a tiny nation all of 4,000 sq. miles large has successfully lived in the roughest neighborhood on the planet - surrounded by nations that have plotted for its extinction for over 5 decades. Israel has built a world-class society, polity, industry and academia with no resources but the minds of its own people. Israel has defied all theories of history and geography to humble its enemies many times over. And this is the nation that our novelist Umair Raja assumes will attack Pakistan! What a laugh! Israel hasn`t gotten here this far by being dumb or cantankerous. It has elected politicians in power not tinpot dictators like Ayub Khan and Musharraf. It has real scientists running its labs not Xerox-machine operators like AQ Khan. It has really well trained diplomats arguing its case before the world; not Islamabad aunties and socialites like Maleeha Lodhi. An edifice of character, vision, intellect, constitutionalism, and caliber such as the one Israel has is difficult - well nigh impossible - to destroy. So also a rotting failed state; built on the delusions of a usurper like Jinnah; sustained by vile hatred for anything Indian; nourished with poison, greed, thuggery and debased culture such as Pakistan will not be transformed in a day. Democracy; constitutionalism; culture; art; and a vibrant society are like great oaks and the soil. They cannot be transplanted or separated. So the best Pakistan can hope for is to imitate and hope to succeed or atleast maintain the pretence! Umair Raja`s opoinions and ``facts`` about Kashmir are so warped (typically Pakistani) that they are a better reason for mirth than offer a cause for refutation! The author`s mindset is best seen when he writes, ``since civilian Kashmiri lives are not valued too highly in India`` or more ridiculously ``....only supports attacks against occupying Indian soldiers in Kashmir (these actions are recognized as freedom struggles by Amnesty International``. Umair should stick to churning out his cheap paperbacks (I am sure they will sell briskly at Lahore Junction!) and not venture into analyses for which neither he nor his fellow citizens are equipped.

The Hindu Right The Hindu Mahasabha and intractable positions! Ra Ra you have outdone yourself. Most leaders of the HM (Savarkar included) rejected Nazism unequivocally and encouraged Indians to join the Army in great numbers. Savarkar reasoned that this would provide them invaluable experience in the handling of weaponry and military tactics. Britain would think twice about trying to lord over a militarily trained populace. The HM was intratactable about what then? It opposed the ``appeasement`` of the League by the Congress and saw it shamelessly pandering to every demand of the League. Ambedkar was even more critical than the HM about this. This does not mean that the HM was right and the Congress was wrong as many people often would like to imagine. The debate ran much deeper than such superficialities. The HM if anything was an inspiration to the firebrands such as Bhagat Singh - a great admirer of Savarkar - and Netaji. How many people know that Netaji and Savarkar shared a platform before the latter left the Congress? While the League had painted a scary scenario of a Hindustan where Muslims would live as second-class citizens under Hindu jackboots; much of these fear was allayed during the deliberations of the Constituent Assembly. So when Independence finally dawned in mid-August 1947 on the Indian sub--continent, India was well on its way to becoming a vibrant pluralistic, multicultural and inclusive democracy and republic. Pakistan on the other hand was well on its way on the road to instability, parochialism, sectarianism, thuggery and criminality. Jinnah as the archpriest of the new dispensation declared himself chairman of the Pakistan Constituent Assembly (a farcical body if there was one) He was busy ticking off Suhrawardy and Fazlul Haq and any leader of consequence within the League (being a usurper himself!). No wonder the marked contrast in the Indiependence celebrations in Pakistan vis-a-vis India. While in India it had been a mass-movement and an instrument of social change; in Pakistan it was the culmination of the efforts of the landed-gentry in alliance with shallow thrid-rate intellectuals like Jinnah to subvert popular will and install themselves in power. Karachi was mostly empty on August 14th, 1947; the crowds listless. India`s people were celebrating the occasion as Bharatiar had prophesised 50 years before, ``Aaduvome, pallupaaduvome, aananda sudandirattai adainduvittome!`` ``We will dance and sing together; for we are joyously free today!``

The Hindu Right Ra Ra`s support of Art.370 is yet another moronic manifestation of his highness. Art.370 among other things prevents anyone but a ``son-of-soil`` of J&K from owning immovable property within the State. If a daughter of the State marries an ``outsider`` she loses the right to the aforesaid right. By no stretch of imagination can this wretched piece of legislation - actually a temporary device according to its Statement of Objects and Reasons - have anything to do with India`s ``secular character`` or whatever. That Ra Ra chooses to quote the mendacious provocateur AG Noorani shows up his diatribe for the drivel it is. On the question of Coimbatore Ra Ra should not speak for the residents of that fair town. The incident that sparked the violence in the first place was the murder of a constable in plain-clothes by two anti-socials (who can be nominally termed Muslim). When the police went to arrest the perps they were attacked. The subsequent bomb blasts were aimed at Advani on his visit to make an election-related address in the city. LKA had a narrow escape. As for the police in Calcutta - the less said the better. The police of West Bengal are virtually the uniformed branch of the CPI-M. Even senior officers take their orders from party hacks - like in the days of the Old USSR!

The Uniform Civil Code proposed in the Directive Principles of State Policy is yet another brilliant proposal from B.R. Ambedkar. Ambedkar was unequivocal about being Indian, and said, ``I do not want that our loyalty as Indians should be in slightest way affected by any competitive loyalty whether that loyalty arises out of our religion, out of our culture, out of our language. I want all people to be Indian first, Indian last and nothing else.``

The Myth of Autonomy Omar,

Re the misrepresentation in The Dawn`s Review was concerned an interview with Sumit Ganguly that never really happened! I have heard of struggling magazines running a Letters page with contributions wrtitten by their own subs! Now if this is the sort of journalism that The Dawn is given to, Pakistan`s press is indeed in bad shape! If not for sites like Chowk, Pakistanis would have no chance of learning something of substance. On the business of ``freedom fighters`` I am sure Arjun and pmisra2 have rendered you hors d`combat - so I shan`t embarass you further!

Re Daniel Pearl. He was a brave journalist and an extremely popular member of the Bombay journalist crowd (that I used to be a part of). He was investigating the connection between the Pak government - that amorphous mass of banana republic army officers - and the Al Qaeda and Richard Reid. He was pretty close to unmasking the real face of the Chief Terrorist Officer of Pakistan - General Messaraff - and his underlings - the various thugs from the ISI - who helped Atta & Co., in a hundred different ways. He was killed by the ISI`s front men - Omar Saeed or whoever. And now CTO would like to bump off Omar XXYZ rather than ship him for trial to the US so that he doesn`t sing like a canary. I am sure that there are many in Pakistan who shed a tear for Danny. But these are the same folk who sing the praises of the ``freedom-fighters`` and their cold-blooded acts. Marianne Pearl and Danny`s Dad are insulting the memory of Danny by accepting the sympathies of the likes of CTO. I don`t think that the Jews ever accepted candy from the Nazis! The worst culprits are of course the turncoats of saja.org who have been organising ``memory vigils`` in honor of Danny Pearl. These SAJA hacks are the same ones who hear no evil and see no evil and instead talk about ``reconciliation`` and ``bonds of friendship`` between ``South Asians``. Imagine putting a fanatic madhouse like Pakistan in the same league as India. Only fools and knaves would do that! It is the soft-pedaling of the likes of SAJA that has led to the extremesim of the likes of Atta, Omar XYZZ, etc. So Danny has died two deaths. A physical one at the hands of the ISI and its thugs; the second - a metaphysical one - at the hands of assorted apologists and acquisers and scoundrels.

The Myth of Autonomy A-Amir,

Tabish Khair is a proud Indian expat. He is no dishonest whiner like Arundati Roy. You probably haven`t read some of his other articles. This one should give you an idea of whom you are quoting. We Indians may disagree with each other even as we come together to give the best we have as a nation. We believe in the ideal of Ambedkar - we are Indians first and last.

Pakistan has a long march ahead. It must firt undo the damage of its delusional visualisers - Rahmat Ali; Jinnah and Liaquat; then get rid of the crackpot ideas of its tinpot dictators - Ayub Khan and Yahya Khan; dump the ``strategic`` garbage generated by 3rd rate rejects like Musharraf; reject the half-baked analyses of its ``intellectual elite``. The intellectual povrty and shallowness of Pakistan is its greatest disadvantage. Nothing will change unless that is overcome.

Read on!

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mag/2001/12/23/stories/2001122300400100.htm

The attack on Parliament: The truth about our democracy

While some of our institutions might well be worth respecting, we, as a people, often fail to take enough pride in the one thing that every Indian has good reason to celebrate — our democracy. The brazen attack on Parliament on December 13 ought to make us realise that despite not having a spotless democratic political system, it is, nevertheless, our greatest achievement that works. TABISH KHAIR writes.



Terror Thursday ... attacking the ``heart`` of India.

THE shocking and criminal attack on Parliament on December 13 should not just lead to legal steps to counter terrorism and a call for unity across religious, political and other differences. Neither should we simply confine ourselves to expressions of sorrow at the innocent lives lost on that day. The crime should, above all, induce us to consider what was under attack.

As a people, we Indians (like people everywhere) take pride in a lot of things: our respective religions, our languages, our cultures, our nuclear capacity, our traditions, our textiles, our cuisine, our natural beauty, our wildlife, our resources, even at times our railways. Some of these might well be worth taking pride in, but we often fail to take enough pride in the one thing that every Indian has good reason to celebrate: our democracy. And that, at least symbolically, is what was under attack by the terrorists.

How often have I heard in educated circles, from the mouths of people who should know better, words like these: ``Oh, I do not care for politics.`` And harsher words dismissing politics as the activity of ruffians and rogues. There may sometimes be good reasons for disliking some politicians. Politicians, like all of us, are no angels, and in a country with vast economic differences they probably have even more compulsions to shed the possibilities of wing and halo. This, of course, applies to the United States as much as to India. But to dismiss politics or politicians en masse — and this is what often happens in our polite circles — is to dismiss the greatest achievement of the Indian people: a working (though by no means perfect) democratic political system.

Think of it: how many nation-states instituted universal franchise at the moment of their birth? In most countries (even in the West, which so often claims to have a monopoly on democracy and everything else that is ``modern``), women and marginalised groups had to fight for decades before they received the right to vote. In India, independence dawned with the sun of universal adult franchise shining on all, at least in theory. And note how great the odds were against us. A country of vast economic differences, much poverty, mind-boggling illiteracy, huge ``ethnic`` variety, all compounded by decades of authoritarian and largely exploitative colonisation: these were just some of the odds. And still India started out as a democracy and has managed to remain democratic.

Not only that, we have managed to have a broad representation even at the highest levels of our democratically elected governments. Our prime ministers and presidents have included individuals who were also women, Muslims, Sikhs, dalits. As against this, how many coloured presidents or women presidents can the ``greatest democracy in the world``, the U.S., boast?

Moreover, while it is true that money is involved in our elections, one does not effectively need to be a millionaire in order to stand for the highest posts at the State and national levels. As against this, try counting the number of American presidents and governors who are not from the richest class. And when I compare the platforms of our major political parties to the platforms of major parties in countries like Denmark, I actually see more variety of opinions and agendas — even more actual debate, at times — in India than in countries like Denmark. If, in the process, we have a few ``unsavoury characters`` in Parliament, surely that reflects our own shortcomings as individuals and as a society. Instead of comfortably bemoaning the ``criminalisation of politics``, we would do well to fight the criminalisation of society in general, which is often the direct consequence of immense socio-economic differences between people and groups. And we should focus on the fact that even politicians we consider ``unsavoury`` largely conform to the broad outlines of a democratic system. That is an achievement in itself, though it also imposes on us a constant need for vigilance.

No, we have reason to be proud of having established and sustained a democratic political system — and that too in the Third World where everything, not least the international movements of supposedly ``free`` Capital, orchestrates against popular participation in the government. We do not have reason to be complacent about it, for democracy is not an heirloom. It is an activity and a constant challenge. It depends not only on having the courage to stand up for one`s rights but, even more, on having the courage to stand up — and sometimes sit down — for other people`s rights. That, finally, is the difference between a democratic leader and a demagogue: a demagogue uses the aspirations of a group as the final argument while a democrat believes in the open and peaceful adjustment of the different aspirations of different groups. No doubt, India — like the U.S. or Denmark — has its demagogues, but the general spirit of India is democratic.

It is this democracy that the terrorists attacked. A democracy that, like politicians, like human beings, is not perfect. A democracy that, like politicians, like human beings, has to keep striving to improve itself. But, nevertheless, a democracy that all Indians should be proud of.

The writer is Assistant Professor of English, University of Copenhagen.

The Myth of Autonomy Pmishra2,

Pakistanis as a rule do not read anything other than ``The Hindu`` as this is the only paper that remains anti-NDA and at times dangerously so. What passes off for `strategic analysis` by the likes of Shrilleen Mazari (Director, Pakistan Institute of Strategic Studies) or even ``learned op-ed`` pieces in The Dawn are based on 2nd and 3rd hand sources. Journalism in Pakistan like any other profession is still an elite occupation. With a barely literate population all we have is a storm in a teacup. Pakistani writers to a person are notoriously prejudiced and selective. The other day there was a lengthy article in Dawn on Kalam`s ascension to the Presidency; which grandly stated that India hasn`t had a Dalit President. This just when KRN has served a full term! Further the article quoted selectively from Kalam`s ``Wings of Fire`` (so you read about Kalam being asked to sit apart in class from him brahmin classmate, but you don`t read about how he was invited home by his brahmin teacher and fed by his teacher`s wife. Today the teacher`s son - Kalam`s classmate - is a priest at the Rameshwaram temple and attended Kalam`s inauguration.) If there is something that many Pakistanis fear, more than India; it is knowledge. For if they were to learn the truth they would lose every reason to wallow in their self-pity and hatred. So we have this writer ``Myth of Autonomy`` who must maintain the lie that terrorist violence descended upon Pakistan from the heavens forgetting the country`s own role in fomenting it!

The Myth of Autonomy Omar Qureshi,

The Dawn is yet to publish my rejoinder on an eminently silly and factually incorrect piece in their weekly review. So much for ``fairness in reporting``. So then one man`s meat is another man`s poison? Thank you for the advice. So now the Karachi homicide bomber or the Church killers were fighting for whose freedom? Danny Pearl was a good guy. So by your calculus he was a stooge of Western anti-Islamic Crusaderist Imperialism and a representative of the American Kosher Deli!

C`mon how long are you going to indulge in these clever and insincere verbal gymanstics?

BTW Arjun and pmishra - thanks for the quotes from The Dawn - Pakistan`s finest. It is indeed in the finest traditions of the quisling par excellence - its founder MA Jinnah!

The Myth of Autonomy Pakistan`s establishment - the rapacious Army; crooked politicians; the bureaucracy - the intelligensia - editors; hacks; professors - the common folk - shopkeepers; schoolgoers; college students etc., supported the Taliban; the terrorist thugs of J&K through thick and thin all these years. Op ed pages are still full of paens to the ``freedom-fighters`` of Kashmir and bakwas about ``atrocities`` of the Indian ``occupation forces`` in ``Kashmir``. Just a couple of months` ago when these murderous thugs in Kaluchak killed a two month old baby - riddling it with bullets beyond recognition - Op Ed pages still talked about ``aspirations of the people of Kashmir`` Now these terror thugs turn back on their own backers, because a few people want to stop the party? What an irony. And even worse somebody actually has the ``chutzpah`` to bemoan this sorry spectacle?

Get your act together. Don`t try to start something that you can`t finish. Even now it is not too late. GEt out of this childish (was Jinnah a child? I wonder) obsession for KAshmir. It never was and never will be yours.

Worldwide India-Pakistan peace movement begins? The naivette of these folk is astonishing! What a laughable idea! Cold comfort for the thousands that are regularly butchered by the crazed ``freedom-fighters`` trained and supported ``morally, diplomatically and financially`` by the raving mad tinpots and pseudo-clerics of Pakistan.

Pakistan`s problems of poverty, illiteracy, bankruptcy or whatever else are its own and its only. India has nothing to do with these problems and shouldn`t care a twittle for them. These are Pakistan`s internal matters. It is upto Pakistan to get its house in order and stop playing the fool around in the Indian sub-continent. After having followed a deranged policy driven by India-phobia for over 50 years a few deluded Pakistanis now want India to provide the escape route. Sorry, there are enough sensible Indians and wellwishers of India both in India and all over the world who can see this charade for what it really is. When Hitler was in his bunker during those last few days before his oblivion he turned to a desperate gambit - requesting that the Allies declare a ceasefire for negotiations! The Allies by then were far too gone down the road to taking apart the 3rd Reich brick by brick to fall for such a cheap and artless ploy. Unconditional surrender or nothing. Thankfully for Pakistan it isn`t in the shape that the 3rd Reich was in those last days. But it will get there very soon if the people and their general don`t do what is good for them.

Well meaning Pakistanis everywhere should petition their own government to veer off this road to nowhere and turn back. For a start Pakistan can wind down its farcical K-policy and renounce all claims to Indian territory. Secondly it must demobilise its oversized armed forces and freeeze capital spending on the armed forces for the next 10-15 years. India asked for a few things after the 12/13 attack on Parliament - just those 20 criminals and cut-throats who enjoy the hospitality of the Pakistani government. The famed ``liberals`` of Pakistan can`t deliver even on that?

As for Non-Indian-Residents like the wooly headed folks they are free to have their samosa-chai by the Golden Gate Bridge or by the Bay and they can invite anyone for all I care. They don`t live in India and do not partake of its dirt, heat and squalor. India by itself can get by with them, without them and inspite of them. Thanks a lot. These people have quit India afraid and gutless to face its challenges. For every one of them there are thousands of Indians who fight, thrive and change the system - offering a way out of the the cycle of escapism, avidance and superciliousness. Today India`s own entrepreneurs like Premji, Ambani, Narayanamurthy and its artistes have proven that they can do well withing India. So while a pseudo-liberal like Kanwal Rekhi lectures (to empty audiences) on ``reforming`` Indian politics and economics, the Chinese Premier and the German Economics Minister come to Bangalore to consult Premji on how to strengthen their IT industry. While run-away India-baiters and India-haters like Vijay Prashad and Manil Suri write about a decaying India; Aamir Khan, Bhansali and Co., walk into Cannes, Locarno and London and take the audience`s breath away. When I screened Lagaan for a few American friends they were stunned. ``We have been fed a whole load of crap about India all tese years.`` Incidentally one of them is from Trinity College and studied with the infamous Vijay Prashad!

Yesterday a boatman`s son was elected the President. Tomorrow a village school teacher - Mayawati - will be sworn in as PM. India will continue to march forward transforming itself in the best traditions of Gandhi, Ambedkar, Bose, Savarkar, Azad, and the 100s of men and women of vision, character and erudition. There will be Godhras, Wandhamas, Kaluchaks, Nagaons, Coimbatores, Bombays. And we will come together even closer as each one of these help us to put our hatred behind and our hopes, dreams and ambitions together. On August 15th, 1947, at the stroke of midnight, 5 former PMs got together at Vijay Chowk to join a chorus of the ``Vande Mataram`` led by a 25 year old whizkid who had ere a few years left the Hindu fold to become a Muslim. Later that year we had the spectacle of Vajpayee and Sonia Gandhi getting together to sing carols for Christmas at the Rashtrapathi Bhavan. India`s composite culture will grow from strength to strength and flower, bringing forth fruit for itself and its recalcitrant brothers and sisters. Which side of history does Pakistan want to be? On the leafy glade ``sujalam, suphalam, malayaja sheetalam`` or ``dreary desert sands where the river of reason has run dry``

There is no moral equivalence here whatsoever. Pakistan has been founded and sustained purely on a policy of hatred towards India. India has never had and doesn`t have the time for such childish indulgences.

Watch out for the new Indian. He is not apolegetic. She is not meek and submissive. He does not seek to obfuscate and avoid. And she is in no mood to take patronising talk. We have a long way to go. But we will get there. Just spare us the sanctimony!

What it means to be me in Corporate America? Was talking to a few folks from Turkey - at the school - last week. One of them is going to be a visiting fellow at an Israeli university this fall. Since I know about the extremely cordial ties between Israel and Turkey; that did not surprise me. ``But then - Cenk - now? All that suicide bombing going on everyday?`` Cenk of course smartly replied - with alacrity - I may add, ``I am interested in cryptography. Where else would I go? Pakistan?`` The irony was unmistakable. I continued gamely, ``why not TIFR or MATSCIENCE`` both of which (in Madras and Bombay resply have a strong computational math program`` ``Well Israel is a lot of fun!`` There`s no point hating India and working yourself up into a froth. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and flattery is the sincerest form of acceptance! ISrael and India together can pull Pakistan out of the hole it is in. Simple. Get rid of that tinpot dictator/CEO/President/Jahaanpanah and shut down this prattle about Kashmir. It is a waste of time. March towards a secular polity or even become like Malaysia. The Malays have struck a fine balance of mutual respect with both the bumiputras - the Indians and the Chinese - and are doing pretty well. I have a radical suggestion to (re)vitalise Pakistan.

Turn over Sindh to the expat Sindhis - the Hindujas, Chanrais, Chellarams - and giving them a long-term lease to run greater Karachi metro as a free-trade zone a la Shanghai. Make Greater Karachi some sort of Hong Kong or Shenzen - a free port with a few extra features. Revamp everything in sight - get the best from all over the world. The Tatas can run the infrastructure, Reliance runs the energy sector (Sui and all that), telecom and IT can be handed over to the Bhartis, and some of the smaller IT companies in India. Hand over the educational system to groups like Swadhyaya, IIT syndicates etc. Form joint-ventures for every service with honest Pakistani entrepreneurs on the board. The expat Sindhis can be put in charge of external relations and representation. Law and order can be turned over to privately run operations from the UK or the US. Keep the Army out and introduce genuine representational government. Going further this can even be made a broad based ``South Asian Initiative`` Bangladesh can be put incharge of family planning, Sri Lanka can take care of primary education and health care. Maldives can run the bureaucracy, Nepal can run tourism etc. And again all these would be joint ventures with strong local involvement. People like Adul Sattar Edhi can provide the local program management and facilitation and oversight. And not to forget - the ``twin-track/half-track/half-wit types like Kuldip Nayyar, Nirmala Deshpande, Ramdas etc., can provide the entertainment! All options can be explored. Pakistan`s creative artistes will be provided market access and be rid of interference from self-appointed guardians of morals. I am sure this would be a great success. The project can begin as an experiment in a region covering 2000-3000 sq.km. around Karachi. Depending upon the pace of change it can be extended to cover all of Sindh over a period of ten years. The tinpots of PA, PAF, and PN can be pensioned off - given green cards (courtesy Uncle Sam) and be asked to join their children (who are all anyway already settled in the US!). It is a one-time expense that I am sure the people of Pakistan would not mind. India will be only too pleased to provide an assurance not to threaten Pakistan. And then after about 30 years the project can be reviewed and a referendum organised to help decide whether the project shd be extended to cover all of Pakistan. And our correspondent Aisha Sarwari can be given a long term contract to join the enterprise first as a management trainee and then make it thru the ranks (or thru a rotational program) working in all functions and be groomed to take over as CEO.

What it means to be me in Corporate America? pmishra writes,

``Let me make one constructive suggestion. Instead of whining endlessly, take Sumit Ganguly as your role model. Aspire to his level of scholarship in Pakistani studies.``

Could not agree more with this. For a nation that is barely half a century old, Pakistanis are very poorly informed about their own state. Last year on August 14 my Pak-American friend had invited us for dinner. As we kept talking I was amazed at his ignorance of Rehmat Ali`s role in the fdormulation of the idea of Pakistan. He knew nothing about the man and his obsession. And of course nothing at all about Jinnah`s hijacking of the movement and his actions which rendered Rehmat Ali persona non-grata in Pakistan. When I asked my friend where he got his information from, I was told that this is what is taught in the history books in Pakistan. In India OTOH the variety of sources of information are so diverse and vast. For instance I got to talk to our neighbor in Madras (a Palakkad Iyer) (who is now pushing 80) who was one of the five stenographers at the Muslim League annual session in Madras in the 1940s(?). He was there courtesy Sir CP Ramaswamy Iyer a barrister and close friend of Jinnah (then Diwan of Travancore). Now Iqbal and Rahmat Ali were given to a lot of myth making (as Khushwant Singh has often pointed out) while Jinnah was a hard nosed businessman (actually from a Kutchi bania khandan like Gandhi!) and had no time for all this sentiment! That Pakistani children to grow up on myths of a myth is indeed irony many times over!

Pakistan too has ``mirror/shadow institutions`` modeled after their Indian counterparts. So if India has the Institute of Defence and Strategic Studies, Pakistan has the Pakistan Institute of Strategic Studies (now thankfully renamed Institute of Strategic Studies, Islamabad!) But then while the former is headed and staffed by well educated folk, in Pakistan we have embarassments like Shireen Mazari (who I am quite sure dictates her columns when she is having a manicure/pedicure) Or wannabe like Ijaz Haider in The Friday Times who tie themselves up into knots using convuluted theories (none of which they understand). Like Nietzsche(?) said about history so is Pakistan`s imitation of India`s institutions. Transplants don`t work unless the soil is right. Pakistanis - even intelligent ones - fear knowledge as it will rid them of their biases, myths and prejudice. So we have parodies like Shireen Mazari - who knows that the truth about Pakistan would leave her with no pillars to base her diatribes on. A couple of Pakistanis I have met here in the US tell me that their encounter with Indians on neutral ground was almost liberating. When they found that the typical Indian has very little time to think about Pakistan they felt less threatened. And when they began to grasp how things really work in India it was a revelation. They don`t mind working with Indians - in fact they look forward to it. OTOH there do seem to be some other Pakistanis for whom the encounter produces very strong reactions and drives them further into the dead end of prejudice, recrimination, hate and vengefulness. When Musharraff trained at the Australian staff college, he wrote a paper that proposed the only way ahead for Pakistan as lying in strong economic and cultural ties with India - suggesting an abandonement of the K-focus. But now look at the man when he gets into power!

So instead of carping about Sumit Ganguly and Mohammad Ayoob, try to generate some genuine scholarship. You will be rewarded.

What it means to be me in Corporate America? I don`t visit Chowk very often. So instead of replying to each of your posts, I am replying to all of them.

Your frustration is understandable. It is the latest feeling following pride, defiance, and disgust towards India. I am hopeful that this will transform into admiration and acceptance (as Pervez Hoodbhoy expressed a few months back about India`s system of education). And then Pakistan will have some real progress.

Pakistan despite being a pampered child of the US (spoilt brat?) hasn`t managed to move much in the last 60 years. An India-centric phobia/hate has been the explanation for everything. For a long time we had those amusing comparisons ``Pakistanis are well-fed and clothed; unlike the starving Indian masses``. ``Pakistanis are handsome (tall and fair Central Asians) unlike the brown paunchy yindoos``. Even the seemingly ``liberal`` (actually anything but that) Najam Sethi`s Friday Times caricatures the yindoo as a tuft-bearing brahmin/bania. And of course that vastly over-rated shyster Jinnah (a 2-bit lawyer then fast fading into irrelevance) could not resist drawing comparisons between himself his ``State`` and the measly bania/brahmins across the border. India as the de jure mother state of the Indian Sub-continent kept quiet and continues to brush off this puerile nonsense like water off a duck`s back. For Pakistan a string of military defeats till 1971 put the myth of martial prowess to rest. The 1980s and 90s put the myth of diplomatic prowess to rest as Pakistan`s predictable references to Kashmir were all but drowned out. And in the last decade, Pakistan has continued to fall behind India, economically, culturally, socially, scientifcally and horiffically and tragically. Today even in per capita terms (PPP-GDP) the difference is significant. What ignoramuses like Niaz Naik and Maleeha Lodhi don`t realise is that if India`s misery numbers - poverty, literacy, etc.are high (because of its huge population) its prosperity numbers are correspondingly high. OTOH Pakistan - never a contender on absolute numbers is now fallen behind in percentage terms.

So how does the average Pakistani cope with these facts - no average response. We see a lot of diversity

- acceptance and affiliation - like Adnan Sami who wanted to defect to India

- the sensible admiration with some token noises about ``Kashmir`` bomb etc., - Pervez Hoodbhoy

- the artistic confluence - watching Hindi movies by the ton ``edge of the seat`` hysterics while watching Lagaan (like my friend Zaheer who outdid every Indian in the audience)

- ``South Asianising``. Everything Indian is passed off as ``South Asian``. So Friday Times has a column on the South Asian arts summer in London - Ha! Ha!. A exposition containing Indian and Indian - from movies to art to fashion to food - becomes South Asian - something like Canadians (who unnecessarily) call themselves North American!

Now we come to the serious stuff.

- Peace advicates - who are actually fierce India haters in alliance with the SAJA/South Asian crowd

- the supercilious smirkers - boasting an English high school education, US undergrad degree, green card and horses and servants at home - ``hing eaters`` ``ghaas waale`` are the stock in trade; coupled with referencs to Sumit Ganguly (I like that guy he knows how to hit!)

- And then the fanatics.

When India started this SAARC tamasha in the 1980s there was some basis for comparison. We had a controlled economy - a Hindu rate of growth. Pakistan OTOH had been ticking along well fot three decades. Even then Pakistan was a pretender to equivalence. Then it was an annoyance. Today Pakistan`s pretence to equivalence is a farce fast becoming tragic.

So how about getting real and facing up to reality.

Kashmir Fatigue Ajay,

This is blatant Brahmin-Bania propogandist trash! Kashmir`s freedom-Fighters will never rest until the yoke of Indian occupation will be lifted and broken forever. Jokes like ¡°involving the Kashmiri people¡± are just too ludicrous for words. The people of the valley had better learn which side of their bread is buttered. They can either turn their little enclave into an Israel with the help of other Indians all over India and the world or convert it into a cesspool of a thuggocracy like Lebanon, Syria, Jordan etc. the 1 billion odd citizens of India (less the piffling 5 million residents of the Vale) are always willing to help, either way. You want prosperity ¨C help is available. You want a wasteland? No problem.

Of Violent Birth and Peaceful Death I have a dream for the Indian subcontinent [talk about South Asia is so much hookey!] - no Pakistan at all. With the tin-pot encsconced for another five years it remains to be seen who achieves this objective faster - the tinpot Messarraff or the Indian Armed Forces!

Cemendtaur should stick to writing those cloying sentimental stories and spare us this trashy analysis

The Panel of Vendettas at UC Berkley

ylh,

No problems about sources. I just used yours wrt population, partition exodus etc. (which you attribute to The Times) And thanks for providing me the information!

Re Bangladesh you will find enough if you search thru the web.

Re ethnic minorities in UK it is a 140 page report in pdf - very elaborate - reported by the Guardian. the link is available in the Bharat Rakshak archives. Will try to get it for you.

And the name is Pennathur - not the way you have spelt it.

Pennathaur,

Unlike you I presented sources. I can present them again.

The Panel of Vendettas at UC Berkley ylh,

The population of present day Pakistan at the time of Independence was about 35 million? So 3.5 million Hindus (who were booted out) is about 10%? And Hindus today in Pakistan number about 1.4 million out of 140-150 million overall i.e., 1%?

The latest pogrom of Hindus in Bangladesh is fairly well documented by independent groups. Journalists reporting on the massacre have been jailed.

Ethnic cleansing of ``Muslims`` in East Pakistan``? Haww Haw. That`s a good laugh! East Pakistan remember is what the place was called when Pakistan ruled (or rode roughshod over) present day Bangladesh. So Indians entered EP and killed Muslims while Pakistan ruled the place? Bangladeshis have accused India of many things in the highest standards of Kuwaiti ungratefulness - but never ethnic cleansing. It is hard to do that and get away as for the 30 days that the Indian Army spent in Bangladesh are exhaustively documented. ylh of course could come up with facts that we don`t know of?

As for the rest of ylh`s statements ``Indian government - choking Pakistan`` etc. it is mere phillipic.

As for Shah Re:Aisha Sarwari - Western Ghats and all that I maintain what I said. Make what you will out of it.

Coming back to Hindus and Muslims in India, why did Muslims decide to stay back in India? And why do they still do? And why is it that Muslims in India do better wherever they go than Muslims from any other country? The recent study commissioned by the UK government is interesting. Indo-Britons of course are vastly better off (education, employment, professional achievements) than Pakistani or Bangladeshi Britons. We need a little more than facile explanations.