Punjab: The Land of Five Rivers Dost Mitter # 60

(BTW, are you still in Sri Lanka?)

Yes. Still in Colombo. Will be here until Oct 07.

Recently visited Nuwara Eilya in hill country from where Rawana (of Ramayana) belonged. Saw the Sita`s temple.

Do come .... my son has migrated to Canada from US. Will visit you probably in end 2007.

regards

nhk

This Really Gets My Goat HP # 34, Sadna # 29

HP is right. A sea change has occured on the Western Border along with the intentions.

Pakistani Army may be keeping contacts with Taliban courtesy since their close brethern live on Pakistani side as well. But that is about all.

No outsider could ever subjugate the Afghans. Pakistan army has realized it in time & decided to give up all those fantastic dreams of controlling these medieval people - made now even more unstable with their Sulfi ideology.

US & NATO forces have no hope in hell in subjugating the Taliban. It is a sheer waste of time. They are only making the Taliban heroes in front of their people. They should learn from what the British did back in 1800s .....leave them to their own devices & have an agreement like the Pakistan Army has done i.e. not tolerate the outsid Jihadis and continue with their own tribal systems.

This resugence owes mainly due to the outsiders (NATO etc) trying to impose their philosophies on them.

As Al Zawahyri has taunted Bush to send even more than 20,000 troops in Iraq - Bush can try this in Afghanistan as well - send 100,000 troops. The sensible thing for every outsider in Afghanistan is to swallow the bitter pill and get out.

The Taliban can be ousted only from within. Let them get unpopular from within . And get slaughtered by their own people. That should not take long because of their atrocious policies.

But it requires a bit of patience. (North of Kabul is a different story)

nhk

Punjab: The Land of Five Rivers Dost Mitter

Since last time you visited Katas Raj, the place has undergone a renovation. This renovation has been done with technical assisstance from India. Finally, there seems to be some change of heart in the Punjabis here to look after the ancient heritage.

Presently, a team of 5 archeologist is visiting India to import gods to inhabitate the seven archeological sites in the Katas Raj area.

nhk

Punjab: The Land of Five Rivers Dear Alam

You have missed two important pieces of information.

When the Indus Valley Civilization vanished, it was replced by the Vedic civilization. The beginning of the vedas - and of Dharma - now called Hinduism.

Taxila or Taksheela is the place of origin of Mahayana Buddism which spread to China, Bhutan, Burma, Thailand etc. Mahayana Buddhism is a liberal version of the original Thervada Buddism followed in Sri Lanka.

Katas Raj is far more significant than what you have mentioned. It is linked to the Kauravas and Pandavas story of Mahabharta etc etc. Some one can throw more light on this subject.

So Punjab has origins of three great religions:

Hinduism, Mahayana Buddhism and Sikhism.

The Punjab Tourist Development Corporation needs to study a bit more of ancient history.

nhk

Reclaiming the Middle Ground # 10

Dear hasanmahmood

Thanks for correcting me. I should not have used the word `outdated`. The people have a right to have a faith on any scripture or belief of their choosing.

It is only right to respect that though one may disagree on issues.

nhk

Reclaiming the Middle Ground Dear Ishrat

Very well written.

All ancient scriptures are outdated - not only Quran. But in other socities, scriptures have become more or less irrelevant. We tend to follow not only the commas and full stops but have added much more additional unintended content.

The Quran is still OK. Maximun damage has been done by Sharia - the history of Abbasids, now considered as devine.

Hadith is another culprit - where the sayings of the Prophet were recorded 200 years after his death ; and these are also now considered as devine.

So there is no need to go into that never-ending futile exercise of re-interpretation on which no one will agree. Just relax and respect all the ancient scriptures and gain personal spiritual satisfaction & wisdom through all scriptures and faiths.

Incidently, Quran had banned only pork but now even alchohal is considered a banned item. As the centuries go by, the followers have a habit of turning the simple religious concepts/beliefs into complicated, cumbersome & stringent laws. And as a consequence, making their own lives miserable.

There is nothing wrong with Islam or with any other faith. All espouse an inherent spirit of goodness.

thanks.

nhk

From Tribalism to Humanism Daktar

You are so right. Thanks.

I wish this theme was taught to little children in our schools.

The West does teach teach this to little children in schools - ``People are Different - and it is OK to be Different``.


nhk

Pakistan-Afghanistan Relations: The Choice Between Alliance and Acrimony Dear Zeerak

(and there is reliable evidence of its extensive role in supporting the growth and the remarkable military successes of the Taliban in Afghanistan)

This is one of the biggest misperceptions held about the ISI. ISI may have done everything during Soviet War. But when Taliban came, though there was contact of ISI with Taliban, bur Taliban were very much their own men and did what they liked. We even could not get our outlaws extracted out of Afghanistan.

When Taliban marched into Kabul, ISI was least aware of it and was totally taken aback. But it quietly lapped up all the credit & fame. There is much credit that goes to it undeservedly - and it quietly accepts it. Some guys, I believe, also got awards for the Taliban marching into Kabul.

Why it has now failed in North & South Waziristan if it had so much of influence?

In all this Afghanistan-Pakistan issue, a new interesting situation is developing - REVERSE PASHTUNISTAN. Unlike the Past, now the Pashtun centre of gravity has shifted to Pakistan.

How we can handle it or what will be its eventual consequences is a subject by itself.

nhk

India, Pakistan and the Kashmir dispute Dear Salim Chauhan

I missed your post since you have been locked out. But I can assume the gist of your line of thought. (your crime may have been some transgression against a female postee? I guess)

Anyway. Some time back, I also used to mull over this folly of Jinnah`s creation.

But, I now sincerely believe, that creation of Pakistan has indeed done a great good to this North-West area of South Asia in terms of economic uplift. The fact that we have also screwed ourselves up by imbibing some Saudi philosophy is a different matter - and hopefully, it is a passing phase.

Re-uniting again is beset with greater hazards - adding 160 million Pakistanis, 130 million Bangladeshis and about 150 Milliion Indian Muslims will create a roughly 1/3 Muslim minority in India - and that is far too big a nuisance to destabalize all.

So no harm being an unheard Ireland or Scotland to Great Britain - borders make no differences - a federation perhaps of South Asia - all independent but having a titular unity.

As for Kashmir, as Dost Mitter said, just take the ideas of Musharraf (not really his ideas?) and wrap it up.

nhk

India, Pakistan and the Kashmir dispute
It again seems like a De Ja Vu - endless long debate on things already said, minced and digested.

Here is Musharraf - and also Manmohan - who both think that this issue can be wrapped up.

And what better way to do than to simply reach an AGREEMENT on the Staus Quo.

Loc remains there - but irrelevant. Both Kashmirs simply look after their affairs. And India-Pakistan mechanism on top just as a fig-leaf cover.

Instead of splitting hair - and going round and round - just sign the damn thing and let every one rest in peace.

No body is losing & no body is winning - Qazi & RSS can go to hell. Let the common man on both side heave a sigh of relief - travel easily - and trade easily.

nhk

The Great Wrong Atlas Khan sahib

You are obviously right.

Considering that Pakistan`s problems arise from three sources - Islam, Army and Punjab, all these three need to be cut to size.

We need not go very far to see. India has handled the languages, religion and state size issues extremely well.

Let us use the same ideas even if India is our `traditional (?)` enemy.

nhk

India-Pakistan talks: the endless cycle Dear Pande

I think a lot of progress has been made and is being made.

For the Governments, it is politically correct to curse each other - this is to keep the radicles silent. And not let them accuse of `being sold out`.

It is also sensible to Go-Slow on it. The people at large take time to acclamatize and accept the change.

So as long as we are inching forward and talking, statements from both sides do not mean a thing.

The fact is that the Pakistani establishment has finally been cornered to accept the benefits of good relations with India - and for India`s future ambitions, a pesky Pakistan on the side is not very helpful.

nhk

Wahabism in Centers of Learning Osama

I understand your anguish. You are right.

The term `Wahabi/salafi` has now come to denote an intolerable face of Islam. Wahab himself may have said some good things - or the colour of turbans may mean different things. This is not the issue.

The issue is out-of-proportion space that the religion is gradually taking up in the society - and replacing a part of our basically a tolerant culture that we inherited in 1947.

Our fight against this downhill slide has to begin by removing all discrminations against the non-muslims in our society ; and give equal rights in all respects to every Pakistani regardless of belief, gender, ethnicity etc etc.

Once we begin to respect others faiths and beliefs, we will become tolerant ourselves & move away from this religion-obsession.

nhk

1857 and the Lessons of 150 Years
Dear Kamdar

Thanks for a perfectly friendly nostalgic article. As usual, the Chowkies have even shredded this to pieces.

As you said, why not let lump the blame on the outsider - and spend a little more quality time mutually. No problem with that.

nhk

Pakistan\'s Afghan Policy
Afghanistan, an artificial country carved out of the Persian Empire about 300 years back, is a difficult place littered only with hostile rugged mountains and sparsely populated tribal society consisting of many ethnicities. No outsider has ever held it for long time. The British quickly learned the lesson and devised an appropriate strategy of indirect control.

Only that system of non-interference in internal affairs can work. If you occupy it, the Afghans get togather. You leave it their own devices, they begin fighting each other & start looking outside for help.

Unfortunately, during the Afghan war, another element of Wahabi/Salfi was thrown into it and the centuries old tribal structure of Jirga of tribal elders was replaced by the crazy Islamist Mullas of mosques.

Somebody suggested here that its ethnic divisions along its borders should be amalgamated with the adjoining states having the same ethnicities. Tajiks with Tajikistan, Pashtuns with Pakistan, Hazaras with Iran etc.

It is a very juicy tempting thought - and that is what our earlier faujis also thought -

But my humble suggestion - pleae do not even think of it. You will sink into such a deeper mess that you will not know how to get out.

Just leave Afghanistan alone with its internal issues - its Jirgas - its tribal way of working. Its Burkas. Its hangings.

Only give it the attraction of money of the royalyies of pipelines etc. Afghan understand busineess and worth of money. India, Pakistan & Iran have to be on the same frequency here & not work against each other. Afghans are experts at exploiting the outsiders to their advantage.

No need to be their saviour - and make them do anything different. Left alone, eventually the tribal elders will overcome the Mulla crowd.

Last time (Afghan war), unfortunately, the entire world (almost!) was with the Mullas.

nhk

Electric Dreams? Dear Mariam

Thanks for the article.

But, to be honest, I am feel more worried about the `DARKNESS` of the mind, soul and ideas in the country.

nhk