A Gory Tale of Lies, Greed and Deception One of the most sacrilegious piece of writing I have ever come across. Actually, she makes a better case than Javed Hashmi for making a fitting example out of ghaddars and upholding the prestige of Pak Fauj.
Moreover, the blasphemous content of the article is more than enough to verify that even chowk has been infiltrated by the RAW and Mossad agents. Chowk editors, beware, just a matter of time that chowk too will be banned in Pakistan.
Bloody ghaddars!!!

Suicide Bombers Dear friends:

Thanks Almighty I am fully aware of the fact that the truth normally has a number of forms and manifestations. I have no doubt whatsoever that I, in no sense enjoy monopoly on truth. What I wrote in my article is at best just one aspect of the reality, one perspective to look at the tragic Palestine issue. There must be many more angles, many more interpretations of the events and details.

Anyhow, from my side, as I wrote earlier, this column was only meant to accentuate the relationship between the misery and sufferings of Palestinian and the (violent/callous) reaction their plight in 4th generation resulting in – NOT AT ALL to condone homicide bombings.

Rafay Alam Sahib, you are perfectly right that some acts must not be justified, regardless of the circumstances. Agreed. For example, rape, to mention one.
Likewise, thanks for also pointing out a very relevant discrepancy in Palestinian mode of action i.e., that instead of hitting military assets they go for softest targets. Yes, it is cowardice, no doubt about it despite the fact that the immensely huge disparity in military terms leaves few alternatives for Palestinians. I have not said otherwise either. I have all along wanted to say that the suicide bombers are outraged desperados. For neutralizing them we got to address their genuine grievances. Banging their families on head or demolishing their houses wouldn’t solve anything. Comparison with Pol Pot was anyhow little bit out of place, if you don’t mind.

Dard #25 and farhanarif7 #31, thanks a lot for helping me to put the record straight.

I don’t know why but some respondents seem to be totally unwilling to see any connection between oppression and the insanity it inevitability leads to.
Actually, to some extent, it is a sort of boomerang. It would really surprise me, if Hamas and Islamic Jihad are not using exactly same classic Israeli and American nonsense for justifying the loss of innocent (Israeli) lives and brainwashing these young girls and boys: “Sad but unavoidable collateral damage” or “ yes, wrong but a price worth paying” and so on.

Take care

Suicide Bombers Thanks for reading a modest attempt of mine to present my thoughts and views in written on this subject. I duly acknowledge all interactors and am grateful for the feedback – negative and positive alike. Prompted by the replies I would nevertheless like to add as follows:

a) There is no agreed definition of terrorism. The difficulty of arriving at one is underlined by the old adage that one man’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter. Palestinians have been denied every right to a decent and dignified livelihood, a civilized existence, development, civil liberties, the list is long and can go on and on. What alternative modes do they have then after 50 years of humiliation and sufferings, if I may ask?

b) pmishra2:
Sir, I respect your right to disagree with my views and analysis of the underlying causes of the menace, but you have no right to accuse me for justifying “senseless and mindless violence”. Please, go back and read the write-up once more and see for yourself that I have time and over again pointed out the wrongness of this practice – religiously as well as morally/ethically.

Correct, 100 % correct, I (and I am sure that neither anyone else) would like to be a target/victim of these suicide (I have no reservations calling them homicide either) bomber. But may I ask, in response, would you like to be one of those Palestinians being besieged, humiliated and kicked around at Jenin, Hebron, Ramallah etc? I FULLY understand the agony of the Israeli victims (and their loved ones) of Palestinian suicide bombers. Do you have any sympathy for the Palestinian victims of Israeli fascist tactics??

c) arjun_m:
I wouldn’t disagree that in many cases, poor commit crime out of necessity nor due to lust/habit or hobby. To some extent best crime prevention strategy is to provide minimum level of living conditions. Yes, many low level crimes would go down, if not disappear altogether, by making the life of perpetrators worth living.

d) stuka jee:
cool down, please. The ratio came down from 25 to 3:1. It seems that for you stone throwing lads being picked up by Israeli tanks and snipers creates no moral problem but the same boys with wounds of dozens of Israeli bullets on their bodies one day strapping dynamite to their waist become an ethical issue. Not very fair, Sir. By the way, have you ever heard or read about any Palestinian blowing himself up in Norwegian, Swedish or Belgian café, restaurant or buss? I really DON’T believe in blowing cafes, restaurants and busses. I condemn it wholeheartedly. But I demand Palestinians’ right to live as well.

Terrorism, Sectarianism and the Military To the innermost circle of Saddam Hussein, he was genuinely the best politician, leader, soldier, the human race/Muslims/Arabs/Iraq had ever produced despite the fact that few other present time persons have so much Muslim/Iraqi/Arab blood on their hands than him.

What else could they believe? Their fabulous lifestyle was embedded with the perpetuation of his rule. In the same fashion, some of Pakistani friends over here seem to face the same dilemma. They are presumably so obliged to the loot of armed forces that they have no option but to parrot their kasidas.

Ahmadzai, Faisaluno & Co, what does “Bandar Bant” mean? Try to find out any two-star officer upwards with less than half dozen posh plots accrued exclusively due to military service?

Iraq had one Saddam Hussein. We have thousands of them. Don’t blame civilians and politicians now. The same rascals in uniform today will be wearing sherwanis tomorrow. These bloody angels (according to you) are bloodsucking parasites of a worst imaginable sort.

Think about the difference in privileges, facilities available to a kid of star officer on STATE EXPENSES and that of millions of chotas around.

Good, impartial answers to these points are enough to make any sane person equally allergic to everything affiliated with military in Pakistan.

Terrorism, Sectarianism and the Military
Categorizing this article as emotional would be unfair to the writer, Hassan Nasir. I would rather term it blunt, outspoken or forthright spurred by helplessness. One can definitely have divergent opinions about his writing style or way of expression but personally I have not found any conceptual error in his arguments.

None of the interactors has so far pointed out any either.

Air Cdre Rizwanullah Khan Shaheed Memorial Trust Dear Taimur,

I am deeply impressed by your eloquence, purity of thoughts and clarity of arguments.

First of all let me assure you, there are very few people with that moral depravity who can doubt yours and yours mother good intentions and sincerity towards this pious project. Regardless of the increasing cynicism among Pakistanis we still do highly revere piety, goodness and khaloos.

Taimur beta, you have probably no idea of the almost inconceivable hardships ordinary Pakistanis go through on daily basis. In fact, the social disparities, the extent of sufferings majority of your countrymen have to endure is beyond comprehension for most of the users of this site. People are venting anger against the system and structure, ABSOLUTELY NOT to offend you.

Therefore, objections and criticisms from armchair naysayers, as a respectable writer put it, should not be taken personally or as a distrust for you and your family.
May the positive forces be with you in this endeavour. Amen. Sure.

I firmly believe that it would be an affront to an adorable and talented young man like Taimur to not have some constructive and honest feedback for his astounding reply. Only due to the firm belief for your greatness and mental sharpness I would like to clarify some misunderstandings.

Very possible, it will hurt you but the bitter truth is that many (definitely not all, yeah barring some grand exceptions) of your uncles wearing lot of stripes and brass on their shoulders are filthiest, most selfish, most cruel creatures on the face of earth.
I do understand that it must be painful for you to read it. You would (prefer not to) believe it either. Because, you have always found them very kind and gentle. The truth may not match your ideas.

I explain:
To the innermost circle of Saddam Hussein, he was genuinely the best politician, leader, soldier, the human race/Muslims/Arabs/Iraq had ever produced despite the fact that few other present time persons have so much Muslim/Iraqi/Arab blood on his hand than him.

What else could they believe? Their fabulous lifestyle was embedded with the perpetuation of his rule.

My dear Taimur, please, go and ask some of your uncles, what does this “Bandar Bant” mean? Try to find out any two-star officer with less than half dozen posh plots accrued exclusively due to military service?

Iraq had one Saddam Hussein. We have thousands of them. Don’t blame civilians and politicians now. The same very uncles in uniform today will be wearing sherwanis tomorrow. These bloody angels (according to you) are bloodsucking parasites of a worst imaginable sort.

Taimur, think about the difference in privileges, facilities available to a kid of star officer on STATE EXPENSES and that of millions of chotas around. See, the huge need of your trust is an indicator of that gulf.

One last thing, your dada jan was a POW. Ask these bloody idiots who the hell are responsible that you grandpa had to be POW for three long years?

Good, impartial answers to these points will make you too equally allergic to everything military in Pakistan.

With respect, love and prayers.

Doctors or the Disease … “Talking to reporters after addressing a convocation of the National College of Arts in Lahore, the general said he would ``address only a civilized assembly (parliament) because I do not want the world to develop a perception that we are an uncivilized people``. The president spoke in Urdu, but did use the English word ``civilized``. He probably meant ``civil`` or ``disorderly``, which would be closer to, and less offensive than, the Urdu ``ghair muhazzib``.

Opposition members in the National Assembly and the Senate have been disorderly in their protests and have made it impossible for the two houses to function normally. The protests have also been extremely personalized. They have been directed against the person of the president and diverted attention from the issues involved. To that extent, they reflect the opposition`s immaturity, and there is some irony in the fact that this should be happening in a parliament which, under the election rules laid down by the Musharraf government, is supposed to be stocked with graduates, who should be expected to behave more responsibly.

But equally if not more raucous scenes have been witnessed in parliaments all over the world, even in countries with established democratic traditions and institutions. The leaders of such countries have never implied that their legislatures were uncivilized.

The military and the establishment in Pakistan have already arrogated to themselves the right to decide what is patriotic and what is unpatriotic, they have defined the national interest according to their own lights, and they have laid down the ideological parameters within which policy has to be formulated. Are they now also going to tell us what is civilized and what is uncivilized? There is among the elite only a thinly disguised contempt for political processes and the din and noise of democracy; sometimes it shows.

Also, if parliamentary protests have become too personalized, it is because military rule often tends to be extremely personalized. The decisions that are encapsulated in the Legal Framework Order are after all the work of one person and his associates. It is inevitable that the agitation against the LFO should also be directed against that person.

However, let us give the president some latitude, and accept that he meant uncivil or disorderly when he said civilized and that, faced with daily attacks, he just blew his cool. No such allowance can be made for his other remarks on the same occasion. He made the categorical statement that the Legal Framework Order was part of the Constitution and would remain so. On the same day, Prime Minister Zafarullah Khan Jamali was telling reporters that the opposition would be formally invited for talks on the LFO in a day or two. The two statements do not square up. What is the point then in discussing the LFO when the president insists that it is an irrevocable part of the Constitution, the opposition may well ask.

The opposition is not asking for the LFO to be scrapped. It has already agreed to many of its provisions. It primarily objects to the LFO`s clauses relating to the president remaining in uniform while he passes himself off as a democratically elected president and to the establishment of a National Security Council. These are issues on which, sooner or later, a compromise will have to be reached if the political system is to function in a more or less normal way” …

http://www.dawn.com/2003/04/23/fea.htm#2

Doctors or the Disease Oh God, I have been eagerly waiting for a piece of the sort for re-submitting a post of mine.

Since August 14, 1947, the day Pakistan came into being, more than 200000 Americans military personnel have embraced ‘martyrdom’ in the line of duty.
Compared to Pakistan the US has lost many times more of her sons in war, in proportion to the population.
Have those sacrifices translated into blanket “kabza” of the khakis in the US?? No. Absolutely not. Despite all this, defence secretary can sack the army chief on standing feet?
One more bizarre fact. For last 15 years at least 5 times more Pakistani civilians have laid down their lives fighting real/perceived enemy than that of regular forces of Pakistan. Lead: Kashmir and Afghanistan.

By the way, what does a soldier get paid/recruited for? To knit sweaters? Yeah, to fight, when and if the time comes. And ALL armed forces of the world do it, often valiantly. Without raping their own respective countries?
What the hell armed forces do extraordinary in Pakistan? If I may ask?

It is an undeniable fact that the military in general and army in particular has eaten up the very roots of this poor nation.
Dear Romair, there are some good exceptions. I agree. In PAF more, much more than army. But almost entire (over 90%) high command of the army, and 70 – 80% of the air force and navy are modern day looters in ceremonial dresses – squarely responsible for the destruction of the institutions.

All of them, together, have converted Pakistan into a giant brothel, where army pimps runs the show. Was it not here on chowk, a lady Nighat Yasmeen raised some very serious questions about the sordid state of affairs. And none could refute her assertions.

---------------------------------
405,399 Americans that lost their lives during World War II. 78,976 of them are Missing in Action.
The Department of Defense reports that 54,246 Americans service men and women lost their lives during the Korean War. This includes all losses world wide.
In Vietnam War, American casualties were: 109000. Out of which Battle deaths were 47410.

Sources:
Directorate For Information Operations and Reports
Department of Defence
http://www.dior.whs.mil/mmid/casualty/castop.htm
American Battle Monuments Commission
http://www.usabmc.com

My Beautiful Rizwan Since August 14, 1947, the day Pakistan came into being, more than 200000 Americans military personnel have embraced ‘martyrdom’ in the line of duty.
Compared to Pakistan the US has lost many times more of her sons in war, in proportion to the population.
Have that sacrifices translated into blanket “kabza” of the khakis in the US?? No. Absolutely not. Despite all that, defence secretary can sack the army chief on standing feet?
One more tragic fact. For last 15 years at least 5 times more Pakistani civilians have laid down their lives fighting real/perceived enemy than that of regular forces of Pakistan. Lead: Kashmir and Afghanistan.

By the way, what does a soldier get paid/recruited for? To knit sweaters? Yeah, to fight, when and if the time comes. And ALL armed forces of the world do it, often valiantly. Without raping their own respective countries?
What the hell or special armed forces do in Pakistan? If I may ask?

This piece is a lovely note, beautifully written by a wife in-deep love with her deceased husband, who happened to be an extraordinary officer. My best wishes for both, my sincere prayers for the family. It is a huge loss for Samina, her children, Imran and all of his family. Yes.

But at the same time, it is an undeniable fact that the military in general and army in particular has eaten up the very roots of this poor nation.
Dear Romair, there are some good exceptions. I agree. In PAF more, much more than army. But almost entire (over 90%) high command of the army, and 70 – 80% of the air force and navy are modern day looters in ceremonial dresses – squarely responsible for the destruction of the institutions.

All of them, together, have converted Pakistan into a giant brothel, where army pimps runs the show. Was it not here on chowk, a lady Nighat Yasmeen raised some very serious questions about the sordid state of affairs. And none could refute her assertions.

---------------------------------
405,399 Americans that lost their lives during World War II. 78,976 of them are Missing in Action.
The Department of Defense reports that 54,246 Americans service men and women lost their lives during the Korean War. This includes all losses world wide.
In Vietnam War, American casualties were: 109000. Out of which Battle deaths were 47410.

Sources:
Directorate For Information Operations and Reports
Department of Defence
http://www.dior.whs.mil/mmid/casualty/castop.htm
American Battle Monuments Commission
http://www.usabmc.com

Some Burning Questions Alas, keshto has succeeded in his mission i.e., to deflect the attention from the subject. Sadly some of our friends dont understand his gameplan and allowed themselves to be manipulated.

Please, why cant you see that by replying his nonsense over here serves only one purpose namely the points raised by the author remain unanswered. And who would love this development?

Yeah, the intended audience.
Please, please, let him write what he feels like. Please, lets try to discuss what this article is all about.

Ok, one thing seems to be confirmed that the article is based on facts and there are no ulterior motives behind it. It would be really interesting if someone takes the challenge of Ms N Y and refutes anyone of her assertions.

Some Burning Questions Friends, there is absolutely no need to comment on or reply to that Ksheto and his completely obtuse remarks. His replies are not only totally irrelevant over here (without going into the merit and quality of the content) it seems to be an attempt to deflect the attention from the real issue.

Then, there is a gentleman, Mr Faran (virtue #9) who wrote, I quote,

“I have studied in 5 different Army Public Schools in Pakistan and not even a single one of them had O-Levels. So you are very wrong there maam.”

I am very sorry to tell him that Nighat Yasmeen is very correct even on this account. Here comes a documentary proof. Excerpt from an in-detail article recently published by the Washington Post

The Pakistan Army Confuses its Own Interest with Country`s National Interest
John Lancaster

reproduced by the SAT. (Retrieving original from The WP is not free of cost after two weeks, therefore SAT)
http://www.satribune.com/archives/dec02_08_02/opinion_wpostarticle.htm

… “KARACHI: Public schools here are little more than warehouses, grim concrete shells lacking libraries, sports facilities, sometimes even teachers. Classes have as many as 60 students. But the children of Pakistani military officers almost certainly are not among them. For them, there is Army Public School O Levels.
Geared toward preparation for the competitive O Level exams required by British universities, the handsome school is an educational showpiece whose computer, physics and biology labs would not seem out of place in an American suburb. Teachers make three times as much money as their public school counterparts.

… “Why else, they wonder, would officers` children at the seven-year-old army school enjoy basketball courts, fields for cricket and soccer, even a petting zoo stocked with ducks and deer.
``The army considers itself a privileged class,`` Khayyam Durrani, a retired officer who is principal of the school, said with a smile. ``The fact is that the actual rulers in Pakistani society are the army people, so they want their children to go to a privileged institution.`` …

Imagine, dear imagine. We are talking about Pakistan. Can it get more deploable?

Then the same gentleman doubted, “ Helicopter ambulances!! Never heard of those before.” Oh, I see. Not only that, have you heard about,
(i) Air Funeral Services, aircrafts of PAF exclusively for the extended families of the Chiefs, in-laws included.
(ii) High Skies Jet Baraat n Valima Services, again C-130s and Falcons, for the wedding ceremonies of the kids of the big shots of the armed forces.
You don’t believe me. Please, check the replies of serving officers of the PAF that how these star officers are plundering the nation with both hands and feet, leaving not an iota of ambiguity.
http://www.satribune.com/thread.jsp?forum=3&thread=303&start=0&msRange=15

Full story at:
http://www .satribune.com/archives/dec16_22_02/P1_PAFStory.htm

See, that poor taxpayers of Pakistan have to bear the costs of royal janazas of in-laws of generals as well as regal weddings of their children.

Mr Faran, I think basically you are a nice person at heart. But being a beneficiary of this loot it is difficult for you to realize the callousness and cruelty of the drama going on in the country. Unintentionally, you hope (and pretend) that all this is wrong. I am sad to tell you that our defenders are nothing but murderers in disguise.