Tunnel Vision
#7 & #8


1- Its easy for Pakistan to stop talking about Kasmir and letting things carry on like they are. We dont have any problems with Jihadis. Only you do! So eventually you`ll have to talk about Kashmir on International Forums anyway.


2- The presence of american troops is a security deterrance for us, and a security threat to India. So we don`t mind them, and dont need to do anything about them. We`re happy, youre jealous! :)


3- The Italian courts have released the Pakistanis arrested, and has declared that they are not related to any terrorist network or activity. Please update your records!


4- A liberal progressive military regime is much much better than a conservative fundamentalist extremist religious regime!


5- It was claimed that ``The position with non-fundoo Muslims is probably now better in India.`` Does that mean the thousands that died in Gujrat were all fundos?

Tunnel Vision

UrsTruly (#1)


Illiterate people are often people bad, immoral, and without conscience. Their ability to tell good from bad is not better than animals, and that is what they biologically are. The koran terms this as ``Nafs-e-Ammara`` (Joseph:54) or ``The Self Advocate to Vice``. The illiterate masses of the corrupt societies of Indian and Pakistan are perfect examples of this. They, like animals, follow their emotions in eating, drinking, sleeping, or expressing anger. They have no conscience and are typically attracted towards evil for emotional pleasure.


However, a good political leader should guide the masses towards what is good for them, rather than following them.

Dear Dana
.... I live in a world where sophisticated people dream of more in life than birth and death. I am but, a Paagal Insaan.

Tunnel Vision
By far the best analysis I`ve ever read on this website.

Hey Dude, Underdogs got Teeth to Bite!
There is nothing wrong with the infrastructure. There is nothing wrong with the team. Any eleven pakistani players of the fifteen that are in South Africa make the best team in the world. What is the solution??


>>The Solution!

The only solution to the problem is, that Waqar Younis should be brought back to Lahore, and made to stand in the middle of the Gaddaffi stadium, where all the people of Lahore should be invited, with free entry. Waqar younis should then be made to pull his pants down, baring his ass. He should then be spanked a hundred times, with an old ``chhittar``.

It is advisable that on the ``chhittar`` they should print ``World Cup Hamara Hai`` so that when Waqar is spanked, it gets printed on his ass.

Then he should be sent back to South Africa for the remaning matches.

Music in Pakistan

I think the writer of this essay has an extremely poor comprehension of contemporary music.


The writer has completely failed to understand the fact that raags are only methods of composition.... the difference between contemporary popular music and the classical music is that of PRESENTATION of that composition and not the rules of the composition.


A melody in ``raag bhimpalasi`` presented in classical style, is too heavy for a contemporary teenager. The same raag if presented in the modern popular style, appeals to the youth! A raag is not classical music. It is only a METHOD that is followed by both contemporary and classical styles of music. Its the PRESENTATION that is different.


The writers` comprehension of the subject matter is extremely poor and erroneous. A Raag is not classical music. It is only a method of composition, and you can follow the method to compose a Naat. The MMA government in NWFP will not call such a Naat illegal. They may however declare a contemporary music video with a sexy bimbo, based on the same Raag, illegal! This is because they disagree to the PRESENTATION of the melody, and not the melody itself and its base raag!


Mature presentation covers up even the weakest of melodies. The future of popular music in Pakistan is dark if they continue with the cheap presentation. Haroons and Faakhirs are playing a definite role in taking us back to the stone-age! (Not the ``cave-age`` as termed by the honorable author)

Eye Opening Facts: Steel Sector

There havent been any replies yet. I`m SO anxiously waiting to see how an India-vs-Pakistan debate will be pulled out from THIS topic :)

Somebody`s probably gonna trace the root of the problem to be the Islamization and Jihadization of Pakistan.... and that will offend somebody else who`d write an equally offended and offending reply :)

GO ON! I`m waitinggggggggggg

Bollywood in the Panic Room

Tushar, Kareena, Fardeen and Esha should be publicly hanged!

Revolution of Regression
This is an EXCELLENT piece of writing!

Strategy and Pakistan’s Fortunes
Rozaiba #6,

I think Romair would really agree to Shoaib Akhtar being the next captain, and Yousaf Youhanna being the vice captain. Since Akhtar is unfit for 9 out of 10 matches, Youhanna would be the captain for all practical purposes!

Shoaib Akhtar should also think very seriously about retiring after this world cup.

Strategy and Pakistan’s Fortunes

When your start to think and preach that winning and losing has something to do with religion, and you believe that all the matches have been fixed by Allah and the way to change that is by reciting prayers, then you are nowhere in the 50 miles circle of ``strategy``.

I doubt Waqar Younis can spell the word ``strategy``!

Al-Qaeda in America Everybody all over the world has been taking maximum political benefits from 9/11. The only party that had to loose was AlQaeda. I however, only conclude that it was due to poor foresight, ridiculous views and ill planning by AlQaeda.

-----> Does AlQaeda Exist?
UrsTruly(#7), Osama ben Laden has been on TV and in the papers since quite long before 9/11. I remember having a very long an heated discussion with a writer of an article in an English daily who thought Osama ben Laden was harmless. I got to hear the word ``AlQaeda`` more than a year before 9/11 when CNN showed an interview with Osama ben Laden. Later on I also bought a CD in a computer store which showed the training camps in Afghanistan, and had the word in it. Other than that I had not heard of the word before 9/11. However, Osama ben Laden and his group of Arabs who supported Taleban financially, and tried to steal them from ISI, had long been talked of and written about. It does not matter what name you give them. Its a fact that the group existed, and threatened attacks on American Army and Civilians. Osama ben Laden said on CNN that he has great respect for anybody who does something similar.
The organization existed, and the intentions existed too, and if someone denies that, ``run rabit run, dig the whole, hide the sun``.

-----> The crackdown on Jihadis

The crackdown on Taleban, AlQaeda and other Jihadis was necessary for the independance and soveriegnty of the State of Pakistan and the rest of the democratic states of the world, even if they were not involved with 9/11. How Pakistan had literally turned into a breeding ground of tens or probably hundreds of private armies, was the greatest threat to Pakistan and Islam, and the plans of military eminence of a particular school of thought of Islam by force, were the greatest threat to the modern concept of civil society. Pakistani people should support the FBI in cracking down against these millitants and clean their society. It is the only chance of economic and cultural revival of Pakistan.

-----> Run Rabit Run!

A popular trend among many moderate muslims in Pakistan has always been, to deny the connections of ISI to the Jihadis, or the terrorist activities of Jihadis, or even the very existence of Jihadis, to others and to ourselves. This is what has worsened the situation. The dirty role of Zia-JamaateIslami dictatorship in international politics and religion, must be recognized and steps should be taken to rectify the situation rather than refusing to admit the situation exists.
If Islam is a religion of Peace, it means those who use terror in its name, should be dealt strongly with, rather than refusing to accept any muslim can carry out terrorist activities. If someone`s waging a war against Islam, its these Jihadis. Anybody who denies their existence or their evil designs, or their links to ISI, is only lying to himself.

Whoever has seen the video of Daniel Pearl being slaughtered with a large knife, the blood gushing out, and horrifying groans coming out of the throat of a body without a head, and a Muslim holding the seperated neck in his hand and moving it in the air as a symbol of victory, would not have the balls to say the word ``Jihad`` ever in his life!!

Dam it?
Dear Sadna,

I wrote a couple of times in Pakistani Urdu dailies against how everyone was pointing fingers at ``Raw`` for all those incidents. But I found out that the french engineers incident was sponsored by AlQaeda and an Indian agency (not RAW but not sure which one) seperately. It was first planned out, then the two parties were contacted for sponsorship. I do not get any of my information from the news agencies. I get it first hand from people who`re into these Jihad groups. I mean all that I say on here :)

World Trade Organization Dear Jay,

You`re new to ME, and when I call myself Paagal, I mean it :) For me, everything that happens and every word I read and write matters life to me. Your Paki bashing posts on chowk, along with many others by many others on many other sites, I believe have a tiny but definite and concrete role in popularising the views that let politicians exploit the public. I say that because I know how such little posts, such little essays have changed the public opinion in Pakistan in just 20 years, as i mentioned. For me therefore, every single word, every single feeling, and every single second matters.

I am too young. I am probably the age of your son. I am emotional. I am unstable. I speak the naked truth because for me it matters, and because I`ve seen all the fathers of my nation to a harm to their sons by thinking nothing matters. I am different from you and my father. I believe that either a philosopher has the courage to be a nonconfirmist, or a paagal. Both of them are very close to God.


You`d probably see me break down one day, and lose, and people will look at me and say I wasted my life and energy. But I`d laugh back at them, and they`d turn their backs and say, `Paagal Insaan!`

World Trade Organization

Dear Jay #17


The worst thing about my posts is that they are my posts. This prevents them from being taken seriously. This also limits their social perception, power of analysis and political foresight.


India is a great nation and really has a long way to go. I think India should competes with China and even the US, I really see no reason why India should not be a great super power. But you`re right, India has its own internal problems, and until some important ones out of them have not been solved, its not wise at all to think about liberating Pakistan.


ISI and its Jamaat e Islami mentality certainly has either scared or driven out the liberals and moderates. It also has created a class of pseudo-intellectuals who are dominant in the press. The ISI had total control over the press and media. They also made ``Islamic Studies`` and ``Pakistan Studies`` compulsory subjects up to Bachelors level, and then designed courses based on propaganda and extremism. They related their own pan-islamism mentality to patriotism and Islam, in such a way that anybody who`d disagree with their views will easily be recognized by everyone as unpatriotic and unislamic. The term ``Ideology of Pakistan`` was invented as a part of this plan, and its definition and description was compiled to confirm to their own idiotic views. In a little more than 10 years, with all the economic and strategic help from the United States, they totally changed and faked the public opinion. Jihad movement was also a part of this broad campaign.


The true liberals and moderates of Pakistan belonging to the urban middle class are confused to such an extent that they can not justify their views. They themselves know being moderate is right, but they also think its unislamic and against the ideology of Pakistan. They`re apologetic about their views. Just like Gen. Musharraf is apologetic about the FBI raids and anti-Taleban policy. The sons and daughters of these go to Pakistani schools and get taught that fake ``ideology of Pakistan`` and fake Islam.


Military liberation of Pakistan by India will not end the Jihad, it will only increase the feelings of sincerity to the ``ideology of Pakistan`` and further strengthen the extremism. I would love to see an ``Intellectual liberation`` first. For many many years, Indian TV and movies were the only entertainment available to the viewers in Pakistan. A lot could be done to strengthen the moderate feelings in Pakistan by getting directly to the urban and rural middle class, and urban low class. The opportunity was not availed, until General Shehzada Alam, one of the pillars of the Jamaat e Islami mentality, imposed a ban on all Indian channels on Cable TV. Indian movies are still extremely popular here, but many movies made about Jihad/Terrorism have only created a feeling of hatred. Thats because theyre made to be commercially successful in India. A true Intellectual liberation will need a government backed group in India to make movies and programs for TV intended especially to balance the thoughts of the people of Pakistan, and to promote moderate views. There is such a vast audience of Indian movies in Pakistan, who`d give a thought to everything Shahrukh or Hritik would say to them.


Also, moderate and liberal organizations in Pakistan should be funded and supported, even secretly if required, by the government of India to use the media and press to popularize the liberal views. It will be much more productive than paying the Jihad groups of Pakistan to kill French Engineers!

Dam it?

Dear Sadna #12


The generals are extremely worried about the international isolation of Pakistan. These are sensible people who`re almost back in charge. The federal cabinet contains the few remaining liberal politicians, out of which 6 were bought out of the opposition party just to ensure liberals stay in charge. This cabinet met very recently to decide on the policy relating war on Iraq. It is one of the hardest decisions ever made by Pakistani government in 50 years. They decided to ``support the UN resolutions``, the ones that exist and the ones that are to come. Qazi Hussain Ahmed was called upon and nobody reported as to what he was told. It has been decided that Pakistan will try its best to stay indifferent in the Iraq issue, and in case of war, the MMA will not oppose the government. There will be protests and rallies, against the US and against the government, controlled and approved by the Government. The Molvi government in the frontier province will support the decision of the Government in general, other than a few statements theyre expected to make to show they havent changed their political stance. They will close all the Jihad activities that they can possibly close. This will be done temporarily for now but for an indefinite period of time. Thats the plan for now.




The Jihad activities are certainly still going on. Previously they were financed by the rich Arab organizations, the offshoots of Alqaeda, in Afghanistan. The Kashmir and local Jihadis were also getting trained mainly in Afghanistan. Now the Taleban/Alqaeda Jihad, the goal of which was military dominance of ``Islam``, has almost ended, other than some attempts at guerilla war in parts of Afghanistan. The Pakistani Jihadis are of two types, those that work in Kashmir, and those that are responsible for secterian violence. They kill people within Pakistan for money. Some of them took money from Alqaeda and an Indian Intellgence Agency, for the recent bomb blasts in the American consulate, on the French engineers, and in churches in the north of Pakistan. The Kashmir Jihadis are not being trained right now, other than a very few ignorable exceptions. The local Jihadis are being trained in mobile camps in the frontier province. These local Jihadis however share many soldiers with the Kashmir Jihadis.


The FBI raids in Pakistan are limited to the Taleban/Alqaeda terrorists only. The FBI does not want to catch the local Jihadi terrorists. Any attempts by a person to draw the attention of Pakistan or US government towards them or their training, will be chased to every corner of Pakistan by the Jihadis to be shot. It is strange but in all cases it has looked like the US government itself pointed out the person providing information to the terrorists. This is something that is very surprising for me and I can not get to the philosophy behind this, but yes, the US government clearly wants to protect the local Jihadis, the secterain-terrorists. This is scary, surprising, and confusing.