Fatima Bhutto Fighting for Justice Being in prison is not as easy as you think it is Yasser mian. If it were so easy, Jinnah wouldn't be sleeping on the floors weeks in advance preparing for a stint in prison.

Fatima Bhutto Fighting for Justice #181 by MantoLives

The airconditioned bit was for Zardari... Zardari was kept in airconditioned prisons.

Yasser mian, in that case you should let us know that. How on earth are we to know under what conditions he was kept?

Fatima Bhutto Fighting for Justice There you go again down the slippery slope Yasser mian. Apparently time away from Chowk has still not cured you of your bad habits of making unsubstantiated claims. You keep accusing Gandhi of having enjoyed imprisonment in air-conditioned prisons when you have absolutely no evidence to back it up. Nor do you have any evidence to prove that it was Gandhi who asked for such treatment.

As to real and false incarcerations, I saw a lot of lawyers being beaten up and arrested in Pakistan during the protests against Mushy. Wonder why you didn't stick your neck out? Was it fear of imprisonment? I'm sure with all your connections, you could have easily bought an air-conditioned cell?

Fatima Bhutto Fighting for Justice #174 by MantoLives

Since when did Air conditioned prisons or Aga Khan's Palaces mean anything?

Can you prove Gandhi was kept in air-conditioned prisons?

Fatima Bhutto Fighting for Justice And in case you didn't know, Zardari spent time in jail for the corruption cases he was implicated in, while Gandhi spent time in jail for resisting British rule. Big difference, in case you didn't know.

Fatima Bhutto Fighting for Justice #171 by MantoLives

The debate was ALWAYS about the treatment Gandhi got in prison.

My argument with Majumdar bhai was if Gandhi was only imprisoned at the Aga Khan palace.

It started from Ijaz Gul's comment in 95 on Zardari (who has spent twice as long a time in prison as Gandhi).

Maybe you should also calculate how many more days Zardari spent in prison compared to Jinnah.

Even the long list of Gandhi's arrests below.. he was incarcerated for any real length only twice.

OK, but weren't you arguing confidently just a while ago that he was arrested twice?

Eik to everyone claims a monopoly on the truth these days.

I'll let this one pass. If you reread this carefully you will probably understand who it points to.

Fatima Bhutto Fighting for Justice And Yasser mian, did Gandhi ask to be looked after well when in prison? If the Brits kept him at Aga Khan palace, it was because of their own compulsions and not because the man wanted it.

Fatima Bhutto Fighting for Justice #169 by masanamuthu

I think you can ignore attacks on Gandhi. TRUTH is on his side.

Thanks masan!

Fatima Bhutto Fighting for Justice #164 by MantoLives

As Majumdar pointed out 1 and 3 are symbolic arrests.

Yasser mian, did you actually read the link? You actually argued that he was only arrested twice. Whether they are symbolic or not can be argued till the cows come home and it is not even the subject of this discussion.

Could you tell us what kind of cells he got when he was actually incarcerated (twice). Were they as harrowing as say Bhutto's or Mandela's?

Now don't try to take this debate elsewhere. You claimed something and you were caught out. If you were honest, you wouldn't be going around in circles, trying to divert the subject of this discussion.

As for The politicians in India, US and Britain (and also Pakistan) are NOT petitioning anyone just as Motilal Nehru, Jinnah, C R Das, Gokhale etc were NOT petitioning anyone. They are there, as these people were there, in their capacity as representatives of the people and they were involved in the parliamentary struggle for self rule ... which was to negotiate a self governing dominion akin to Canada and Australia - which many historians agree they would have gotten by 1925 had the whole process not been derailed by the KM/NCM nonsense.

The politicians you were talking about are petitioning a representative government composed of their own countrymen, while Jinnah was petitioning a government that was imposed from Great Britain. Don't you see the difference? What is the point in bringing in Gokhale, Das etc.? Were these Gandhians?

Fatima Bhutto Fighting for Justice #161 by majumdar

Both of you are right.

How can that be Majumdar bhai? Only one of us can be right here. Yasser argued that Gandhi was ONLY arrested twice.

Fatima Bhutto Fighting for Justice #155 by majumdar

What is indisputable is that he wasn't tortured or put into solitary confinement like Mandela or ZAB or closer home people like George Fernandes (during Emergency)

Not that I have any evidence to prove he was put in solitary confinement but if I ever manage to do that, you will next argue that at least he wasn't hanged like ZAB. Is there no end to your demands from the poor old man? Majumdar bhai, unlike Jinnah who preached to his minions from his ivory tower, Gandhi actually led by example. That is all I will say.

Fatima Bhutto Fighting for Justice #154 by MantoLives

I read your link. Where does it say that Gandhi was arrested other than the two times both Majumdar and I have mentioned?

It does not.

Yasser mian, you won't listen. OK let me help you out.

Under "Campaign for Home Rule"

1. "....in 1920, when the British government failed to make amends, Gandhi proclaimed an organized campaign of non-cooperation. Indians in public office resigned, government agencies such as courts of law were boycotted, and Indian children were withdrawn from government schools. Throughout India, streets were blocked by squatting Indians who refused to rise even when beaten by police. Gandhi was arrested, but the British were soon forced to release him."

2. "The Indian population, however, could not fully comprehend the unworldly ahimsa. A series of armed revolts against the British broke out, culminating in such violence that Gandhi confessed the failure of the civil-disobedience campaign he had called, and ended it. The British government again seized and imprisoned him in 1922."

3. "In 1930 the Mahatma proclaimed a new campaign of civil disobedience, calling upon the Indian population to refuse to pay taxes, particularly the tax on salt. The campaign was a march to the sea, in which thousands of Indians followed Gandhi from Ahmedabad to the Arabian Sea, where they made salt by evaporating sea water. Once more the Indian leader was arrested, but he was released in 1931, halting the campaign after the British made concessions to his demands."

Yasser mian, these are only 3 instances, I haven't even come to the Agha Khan palace arrest. You can find more if you READ it.

As for politics of "petitioning"... I did not know that most politicians in India, Britain and the US today are mere "petitioners" because they follow parliamentary politics.

In case you didn't know, most politicians in India, Britain and the US today unlike Jinnah are petitioning governments that have been elected by their OWN countrymen, and not imposed on them.

Fatima Bhutto Fighting for Justice And this will be my last post on the issue. I have clarified what I meant in my post to Majumdar bhai. This board is about a promising young Paki woman and by continuing this discussion, I would be contributing to derailing what could otherwise be an interesting board.

Fatima Bhutto Fighting for Justice #129 by MantoLives

To the best of my knowledge during the "freedom struggle" Gandhiji was imprisoned twice (I think he might have been imprisoned once in South Africa). Once in the Khilafat Movement when he was tried for sedition and sentenced to 6 years but was let go early for appendicitis. I am not sure what jail he went to but perhaps you can enlighten people here. Correct me if I am wrong, but he was not arrested in the salt march.

Yasser I'm surprised of all people, you should be asking a layman like me. I thought as an authority on Gandhi vs Jinnah, you should be knowing these details. And you know I'm not a historian nor someone with too much of interest in history, but I just typed in "Gandhi arrest" on Google and I picked one link which has information about his arrests and contrary to your belief, he was arrested more than twice.

http://www.kamat.com/mmgandhi/gandhi.htm

Politics of courting arrest is hardly the kind of politics I appreciate (though it was the most popular form of leader-making) ...

Fair enough. Nor do I appreciate the politics of petitioning. But those are our opinions and as you know, they don't count for much. As they say opinions are like.....

Fatima Bhutto Fighting for Justice #119 by MantoLives

However Gandhi's world famous incarceration (1942-1944) was in Aga Khan's palace and it is a fact.

Yasser yaar welcome back, even if briefly. Where have I even remotely suggested that Gandhi was never imprisoned at the Aga Khan palace? I'm totally baffled and if you can point it out, I will be grateful. It is with regard to his being treated as a king that I questioned Majumdar bhai now and you earlier.

And in a long political career spanning almost 4 decades and comprising of many prison stints, it is very clever of you to have taken just 2 years of his incarceration at the AKP and paint it as if that is the only place he was placed in. At least that is the impression Majumdar bhai seems to have gotten if we go by his post 97.

Fatima Bhutto Fighting for Justice #113 by majumdar

people do know who to take seriously and who not to.

Now you're being too modest Majumdar bhai :-)