Musharraf\'s Resignation and Beyond #171 by Levitate

now get hindus out of kashmeer who are killing innocent kashmeeris...

Yaar as you guys never tire of telling us, Kashmir runs in your blood. Why don't you shed some for your brethren in distress? Or are you going to continue to beg Indians to get out of Kashmir over the Internet?

Musharraf\'s Resignation and Beyond #167 by Levitate

All i know is that I am very glad that
we don't have many Hindus in Pakistan.

Yaar we're glad too, for who would have wanted to call you their compatriot?

Musharraf\'s Resignation and Beyond #166 by majumdar

Did MKG raise Ram rajya first or did MAJ (pbuh) start TNT first?

This is not about who started what; it is about common sense. Can a man who enthusiastically (perhaps more enthsiastic than even Muslims themselves were) supported Muslims in the Khilafat movement ever have gone on and established a nation that suppressed Muslims?

.....neither Hindoos nor Muslims cud have expected justice from each other in 1947....

Why?? What makes you think so?

Musharraf\'s Resignation and Beyond #164 by majumdar

Hindoos were 75%, Muslims 25%

I like your logic Majumdar bhai. Muslims when in minority want a nation because they fear oppression. When in majority or thereabouts, they still want a nation because they form a significant percentage of the population.

MKG's call for Ram Rajya put misgivings in Muslim minds.

Oh so Jinnah despite rallying Muslims in the name of Islam must not be construed as anything but calling for a Muslim nation with secular credentials, but Gandhi merely talking about Ram Rajya must have definitely meant he wanted to establish a Hindu nation. Wow!

3. INC state govt committed atrocities against Muslims as documented in the Pirpur report.

And I presume you'd think the ML was innocent of any wrong doing in Bengal (where it was in power) during the DAD?

Musharraf\'s Resignation and Beyond And be that as it may, what right did Jinnah have to ask his countrymen to detach religion from their lives when they were rallied for the cause on the basis of Islam? Doesn't it strike you as utterly foolish or deviously cunning, take your pic?

Musharraf\'s Resignation and Beyond #161 by majumdar

MAJ (pbuh) wanted a state where the Muslims rights would be safeguarded and they would be protected from being an oppressed minority in a Hindoo majority state.

And pray tell us what was the basis behind the assumption that Muslims would be dominated by Hindus?

Musharraf\'s Resignation and Beyond #155 by akcheema

Isn't that what the founder/father of the nation MAJ (pbuh) stated categorically in his 11/08 speach?

Cheema bhai, this is like a thief who earned all his wealth through stealing advising his heirs to live a life of virtue.

Musharraf and Me Ouch! That must have hurt Majumdar bhai? Not for the first time, even Pakistanis questioning the partition?

And then there was The Impeachment Issue… Musharraf's impeachment will not be the end of the travails faced by the Pakistani people. It perhaps will be the beginning of another round of the same old story. There's no doubt once their common enemy Musharraf is sent packing, Zardari and Sharif will try to upstage one another, setting up another bout of one-upmanship with no concern for the Pakistani awaam. The average Abdul will still continue to grapple with rising prices and limited economic opportunities.

Fissures in the Middle #531 by majumdar

I hope your hero was not responsbile for exporting GG to Pakistan !!!

Nope Majumdar bhai, it was your hero's obsession for power that was responsible for the export of GM to Pakistan and the export of lakhs of Hindus, Muslims, and Sikhs to their makers :-(

Fissures in the Middle #529 by majumdar

PS: Harishbhai, it might interest you that the villain of the piece Gulam Mohammed was the co-founder of M&M which was Mahindra & Mohammed before it became Mahindra & Mahindra.

Majumdar bhai, I came to know about it just a few days back. GM's loss was India's gain I guess :-)

Fissures in the Middle #524 by majumdar

Kindly note that MAJ (pbuh) was trying to leverage USA's strategic needs for meeting Pakistan's requirements, NOT THE OTHER WAY ROUND. He possibly had a Pak Marshall Aid Plan in mind.

Besdies he was looking for goodies for the country as a whole not for personal benefits like Mushy.

Whatever Majumdar bhai. The fact is that beyond renting Pakistan out, he had no other vision for the country. That much is clear from the interview. Also clear is the fact that Pakistan's continued policy of renting itself out to the highest bidder is his legacy.

Fissures in the Middle #521 by masadi

I know MAJ wasn't very smart according to the sanitized version of events and after the event speeches but I assure you, historians have commented that he understood that a Pakistan extracted from India would leave it forever dependant on externals for defense, which would open a path for military rule in the country and impoverishment of its people.

Masadi sahib, excellent post. Here's an excerpt from an interview of the great man after the Partition. As you can see, Jinnah had no plans other than to lend Pakistan to whichever side was willing to pay more in the war between the US and USSR. Pakistan's current position as a mercenary state is a legacy that Jinnah bequeathed to the country.

What plans did he have for the industrial development of the country? Did he hope to enlist technical or financial assistance from America?

"America needs Pakistan more than Pakistan needs America," was Jinnah's reply. "Pakistan is the pivot of the world, as we are placed" -- he revolved his long forefinger in bony circles -- "the frontier on which the future position of the world revolves." He leaned toward me, dropping his voice to a confidential note. "Russia," confided Mr. Jinnah, "is not so very far away."

This had a familiar ring. In Jinnah's mind this brave new nation had no other claim on American friendship than this - that across a wild tumble of roadless mountain ranges lay the land of the BoIsheviks. I wondered whether the Quaid-i-Azam considered his new state only as an armored buffer between opposing major powers. He was stressing America's military interest in other parts of the world. "America is now awakened," he said with a satisfied smile. Since the United States was now bolstering up Greece and Turkey, she should be much more interested in pouring money and arms into Pakistan. "If Russia walks in here," he concluded, "the whole world is menaced."

In the weeks to come I was to hear the Quaid-i-Azam's thesis echoed by government officials throughout Pakistan. "Surely America will build up our army," they would say to me. "Surely America will give us loans to keep Russia from walking in." But when I asked whether there were any signs of Russian infiltration, they would reply almost sadly, as though sorry not to be able to make more of the argument. "No, Russia has shown no signs of being interested in Pakistan."

This hope of tapping the U. S. Treasury was voiced so persistently that one wondered whether the purpose was to bolster the world against Bolshevism or to bolster Pakistan's own uncertain position as a new political entity. Actually, I think, it was more nearly related to the even more significant bankruptcy of ideas in the new Muslim state -- a nation drawing its spurious warmth from the embers of an antique religious fanaticism, fanned into a new blaze.

To read the rest of the interview go to: http://iref.homestead.com/Messiah.html

Fissures in the Middle #515 by majumdar

Majumdar bhai, I'm not asking for your opinion. I'm asking you to explain how you arrived at this opinion.

Here's an extract from the News Chronicle of the 30th July, 1946, a day after the passage of the Direct Action Resolution:

"What precisely does Mr. Jinnah think he will achieve by embracing violence-and at a moment when so substantial a part of his claims has been conceded?

"Does he think that communal strife will benefit India or even the Muslim part of India? He has only to look at other parts of Asia to see what lies at the end of that tunnel.

"Does he want his country to become another China, ravaged and utterly impoverished by interminable Civil War?

"It is hopeless, of course, if Mr. Jinnah is wedded to complete intransigeance-if, as now seems the case he really is thirsting for a holy war.

"If Mr. Jinnah nosy resorts to violence, it will be very difficult to save India from disaster."

Are you arguing that Jinnah couldn't foresee what an ordinary staff reporter could? If that is indeed the case, did he deserve to be the SOLE voice of Indian Muslims?

Fissures in the Middle #513 by majumdar

Besides why did Brits and INC accept MAJ (pbuh) as the sole spokesman.

What does the Brits' acceptance have to do with the fairness/unfairness of the demand?

Did MAJ (pbuh) incite Muslims to kill Hindoos/Sikhs?

He personally may not have done it, but his cohorts were threatening to shed Hindu blood almost every single day and Jinnah did squat about it.

Fissures in the Middle #509 by majumdar

But naturally, if IMs were happy being Indians and chose to remain Indian, why wud they be MAJ's problem? Surely if some IMs chose to reject TNT, how wud MAJ be liable for them.

Ooooh!! Thanks for at least granting that there were Muslims in India who weren't the followers of Jinnah. How come then the man demanded that he be considered the SOLE representative of ALL Indian Muslims and that the Muslims in the Congress be ignored????