Fissures in the Middle #457 by majumdar

What MAJ (pbuh) could not have foreseen was Lord M's antics which caught the sub-continent unprepared. And maybe he was an inaccurate idealist on the Partition issue.

Majumdar bhai, enough of this scapegoating already! While Pakistanis like Yasser love to hail Jinnah as the father of Pakistan, you're giving credit to Lord M. Can you both discuss and please decide who is the real father of Pakistan???

Fissures in the Middle #456 by masadi

You are sadly mistaken if you feel that Pakistan was doing great or the Muslims of India were doing great with Jinnah at the helm.

Masadi sahib, you should have guessed I was being sarcastic! Anyways, thanks for asking and the new Masadi is just what is needed. As they say, diplomacy is the art of saying the nastiest thing in the nicest possible way, Majumdar bhai-ishtyle ;-)

Fissures in the Middle #449 by majumdar

The Founder of Pakistan never anticipated a complete parting of ways, nor the expulsion/brutalisation of minorities on either of the two successor states

Sorry to say this Majumdar bhai but if Jinnah really thought so, he must have been an utterly clueless fool. After ratcheting up tensions between the two communities to an extent where riots were an almost daily occurence, to have thought he could spend the rest of his life in his Mumbai mansion betrays a complete lack of understanding of such extreme politics. The alternative explanation could be that Jinnah was probably starting to become cuckoo during the movement itself which is why he was taking such bizarre positions.

Secondly, you choose to ignore the fact that religion based mobilisation was initiated in the sub-continent by people who were in favour of United India.

While you choose to ignore the fact that those who did that did so to give the movement a more mass appeal rather than confine it to the educated elite. Not once did Gandhi ever talk about separation and till the very end he tried his best to prevent it from happening.

Fissures in the Middle #424 by hamidm2

..... but we also need good governance - being muslims, that can only happen if we have a bloodthirsty strongman at the helm of affairs

Exactly. Pakistan was doing just fine as long as Jinnah was at the helm!

Fissures in the Middle #374 by majumdar

Pls refer to YLH's write-up "Jinnah's India".

Thanks for the joke Majumdar bhai. I can use a good laugh on a not-so-happening day at work :-(

Fissures in the Middle #374 by majumdar

The main argument against him is not that he was a Hindoo, but a man was a medievalist who pandered to communalists and Liberal MUSLIMs have been far more bitter at him for pandering to MUSLIM communalists/fundoos rather than Ram Rajya.

So what did these so-called "liberal Muslims" do? When push came to shove, they turned even more extremist than the fundos. The ML headed by the "liberal-est" of all Muslims, the man who unabashedly ate pork and drank whiskey used the most brutal means to accomplish a "secular homeland for Muslims" (what an oxymoron!!) and in the process causing untold suffering and misery to Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs alike. Aise liberals se to fundos achche!!!!

Fissures in the Middle The thing here is that despite Gandhi's foolish pandering to Mullahs, his enunciation of Ram Rajya is enough to get him labelled as a Hindu communalist. Had he gone the opposite way (i.e., been virulently anti-Muslim), he still would have been labelled a Hindu communalist. This is a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Fissures in the Middle The thing here is that despite Gandhi's foolish pandering to Mullahs, his enunciation of Ram Rajya is enough to get him labelled as a Hindu communalist. Had he gone the opposite way (i.e., been virulently anti-Muslim), he still would have been labelled a Hindu communalist. This is a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Fissures in the Middle #362 by majumdar

Moplah violence took place over quite a few weeks and there was enuff time for MKG to condemn this violence. Now I am not saying that Moplahs were followers of MKG but surely MKG cud have condemned the Moplah violence, no?

Majumdar bhai, that Gandhi was soft on his Muslims allies is well-known and accepted, but NOT condoned. The man mistakenly believed he could win over Muslims through love. He might have been foolish in thinking so, but were his intentions bad?

Btw if MAJ(pbuh) is to be held responsible for riotings and killings by Muslims, shouldnt MKG be held responsible for killing of Muslims in 1947 too.

Why should Gandhi be held responsible? Did he incite Hindu masses?

Fissures in the Middle #360 by majumdar

He was into ahimsa from his young days and he propounded non-violent satyagraha in 1906 while at the same time acting as a recruitment agent.

At best Gandhi was one among the leaders the Indians had in South Africa. Jinnah OTOH was the undisputed leader of the ML and his word was law. In any case, do you have references Majumdar bhai?

Cant we then apply the same standard for MKG's recruitment drive in WW-I.

That is the problem with Gandhians and Jinnah-worshippers. We say Gandhi was NOT God, he could have made mistakes and when brought to his notice, the man was earnest in accepting his follies. Can you say the same about Jinnah?

And his excusing Moplah violence in 1920-22.

Majumdar bhai, Gandhi was NOT the leader of the Moplahs. He had very little influence over them; what could he have possibly done after the deed was done? Could it have been to call for retribution? I fail to understand your argument here.

Yes, possibly he turned a deaf ear to some of his followers call for "action".

Thanks for at least admitting that.

But then MKG too turned a deaf ear to Moplists violence.

Was Gandhi the leader of the Moplahs? If no, I fail to understand how he can be held responsible?

Did MAJ mobilize hundreds and thousands of Muslims to pillage and kill Hindoos?

Again, please refer to the Direct Action. If his cohorts were mobilizing Muslims, arming them with swords and clubs and you say Jinnah didn't have a clue, either the man was a liar or an incompetent lout.

Fissures in the Middle #352 by majumdar

As a matter of fact, neither MKG nor MAJ (pbuh) were very different on this. MAJ (pbuh) was always an advocate of constitutional methods and never endorsed violence as part of policy except possibly the invasion of Kashmir by tribals.

Majumdar bhai, this is like a rapist arguing in court that except for the one time that he raped the woman, he'd never harmed a woman in his life.

Coming back to your post, what was Direct Action Day all about? It wasn't just the three-odd days of madness, Muslim Leaguers were making threats months before violence actually broke out. If there's any evidence to prove Jinnah did anything to stop such statements from being made, we would like to hear from you. If otherwise, pardon me but I would prefer arguing with Yasser because the man at least has made an attempt to read up and has some information (even though he misrepresents them like there's no tomorrow).

And MKG for all his non violence was an enthusiastic recruiter for Brits in the Zulu War and in WW-I and turned a blind eye to the Moplah violence.

That was way before he became a proponent of non-violence. The Buddha was just another ordinary man before he became enlightened, but it appears people like you would love to focus more on his marital life.

One criticism often levelled against MAJ (pbuh) by Gandhians (and others) is that he spoke only for Muslims and broke the unity of Indian people by trying to privilege Muslims vis-a-vis Hindoos and yet they overlook that he did the same in Africa in trying to privilege Indians against Kafirs.

Did Gandhi mobilize hundreds and thousands of Indians to pillage and kill black Kafirs?

Responsibility of the Media and the Repercussions of Terror Strikes #9 by Folio

Last time I heard it was Basith who was the Head of AP Police and u want to paint Muslims as victims.

Yaar VRV, not just Basith, Muslims actually are over-represented as a percentage of their population in AP police. So this moron should be knowing who to blame for the Muslims' plight at the hands of the police force.

Responsibility of the Media and the Repercussions of Terror Strikes #9 by Folio

Last time I heard it was Basith who was the Head of AP Police and u want to paint Muslims as victims.

Yaar VRV, not just Basith, Muslims actually are over-represented as a percentage of their population in AP police. So this moron should be knowing who to blame for the Muslims' plight at the hands of the police force.

Responsibility of the Media and the Repercussions of Terror Strikes #5 by aaendra

School teachers,older people who are physically unfit are the real threat you want me to believe that.

Physical disablity may prevent you from carrying out acts of terror by yourself, but is it a hindrance to motivating or even playing a behind the scenes role? Mullah Omar, the Taliban head honcho is one-eyed and perhaps even lame. Osama, the man behind the 9/11 tragedy is reportedly a kidney patient. There was even a blind Mullah (I forget his name) who served as inspiration to many Brit Muslims who were involved in acts of terror.

I have seen guys rounded up just because they walked past the Charminar.

Police excesses are a problem but it affects not just Muslims but just about everyone. Why, just last night, I was fined even though I had all the valid papers the cops asked. Should I do a rundi-rona (thanks stuka ;-)) that I was victimized because of my religion, caste or color? Don't exaggerate such isolated incidents.

Responsibility of the Media and the Repercussions of Terror Strikes #2 by aaendra

Read the Deccan Chronicle today, four muslim families suspected of running the terror network in the South from Hyderabad.

How are you so sure these families are innocent?

Responsibility of the Media and the Repercussions of Terror Strikes What is forgotten in the attempt to pacify the people is that there is no restraint in labelling a community responsible.

What is wrong with reporting that the police suspect SIMI/HuJI whatever? Where has the community been labeled? What a moron!!