Anarkali Asif,

Good one! Could you point to the original in Roman or Devanagari script.

Is `Shadow of God` ZilleElahi or ZilleSubhani?

Indians Do Not Like Each Other Chowk Staff is made of dimwits
In the following what I am suggesting is based on my personal observation and remains an individual’s assessment. Many of you may disagree.

However, what I believe is that: “Chowk Staff is made of dimwits”

Let me extrapolate the point just mentioned. If Rediff, Sulekha or any other site were to get such balderdash, they would accord it the respect due to such garbage, and move it to trash can. However in the case of Chowk Staff there will be debate on whether there is any merit in the article, and if there is any redeeming value, it`ll make it to Front Page.

One of the possible reasons for such behavior could be the fact that Chowk Staff is an amalgamation of 8 different editor clubs that have been tied together to make an editorial team. These 8 separate clubs have their own language, eating habits and culture. Hence, an editor of Leafyglade Inn has almost nothing in common with an editor from Chaat House; they think differently, have differing notions of what is publishable and espouse different ideologies. Generally, editors of any particular Chowk section would get along fairly well rather than editors of two different Chowk sections. So one might argue that the affinity is at the level of Chowk sections like Leafyglade Inn and not Chowk.

On Chowk, like on some other sites, people do not appreciate others success. You tell a fellow Chowkie as to how great things are and he would be disappointed. However, if you recount your troubles then he would be almost happy, will provide advice, and offer help. I also think that among Sulekhans this feeling is much greater, if Chowkies try to pull each other down then Sulekhans try to tear each other down.

As mentioned earlier, these are personal opinion based on subjective observations. However, I do believe that ``Chowk Staff is made of dimwits``.

Arachnophobia Vs. Nyctophobia Boss,

Loved your self-deprecating humour, made my weekend!

Your target practice reminded me of a similar obsession we had been sucked into a couple of years back. Never short on the innovation front, our blokes added many improvisations to the seemingly boring game of darts. There was speed darting - three or four people standing behind each other, shooting the dart and making way for the one behind, as quickly as possible. Then there was power dart, desire to split the board wide open prevailing over accuracy. I never participated in the blindfolded darting...pockmarks on the door that was 3 ft from the board indicated it must have been `adventurous`.

Old Neighbors And Old Memories Re: # 52

``The whole Advani episode is a storm in a tea cup and it is really funny also, because it seems that political leaders in the world`s largest democracy cannot even express their own opinions because of the intolerance of their constituencies! ``

Feroz,

He did not go there in personal capacity. He went to Pakistan on the invitation of Pakistani president, which was extended to leader of opposition of India and not L.K. Advani, the individual. The leader of opposition is equal in rank to a cabinet minister in the ruling dispensation and is accorded all the privileges thereby. The privileges (or perks as we call them colloquially) are not extended in isolation. The underlying assumption is that individuals will air their `personal` opinion in personal meetings and follow the mandated protocol during public appearances.

Nobody gives a flip to what Mr. Advani thinks when he sits in his library, what matters is his public persona. Jinnah, Advani, Vajpayee and Savarkar all are/were atheists or not too religious people. Yet, they built their political careers by playing the religion card. There was a clear dichotomy in their personal and political beliefs. Yet, nobody raised a hue and cry about this. Why? Because they are known to people by what they say in public and not by private musings.

Personally, I feel the current controversy is a manifestation of symbolic nature of politics in our countries. We are emotional people who easily get swayed by empty sloganeering and inconsequential tokenism. What difference does it make to anybody`s life if Jinnah or Gandhiji who died aeons ago, were communalist or secularist. But the hysterical reactions convey otherwise. Interestingly, I`ve never seen anyone labelled `traitor`, statements from people across the spectrum and such media frenzy when a company which employs thousands of people is closed down, or when a bridge or highway is delayed. We are a nation of fools, and we deserve the leaders that we have.

BTW, article was a good read. I particularly liked this:
``It seems, from hearing the conversations that Saturday night, that we humans have a desire; a wish and a longing to revisit our places of birth and reconfirm the memories of our childhood. I am not sure, what is the real reason behind this impulse. Maybe, as we grow old and are forced to make compromises, we hark back to the memories of our childhood, because it was a period of unblemished bliss and innocence and it was a time of a carefree joy, which we all miss as we grow older and are burdened by the injustices of life. `` and your post #16 on the way History is taught in our region.

Communal Stereotyping in Bollywood Movies Dionysus,

You owe Chowkies an article on Punjab - its people, culture and History.

HP,

I`ve no idea how a silly article on Bollywood turned into a meaty discussion on History, not that I mind it :-) Count me in on the Kapurthala theory. Sindh History would be cool.

Communal Stereotyping in Bollywood Movies Re: # 153

Cool :-)

I was more concerned about the real information getting relegated to background, because more effort goes into scoring points over each other. Anyways, Wikipedia says too little about HinduShahi dynasty. I couldn`t find any information on the ethnic origin of their rulers, but parts of Punjab were surely under their dominion. But then, their empire extended to present-day Afghanistan and parts of Kashmir as well. The NCERT books talk about the fateful battle of Jayapal with Ghazni. He lost. Having been disgraced, he lit his funeral pyre. I`ll check out the libraries and see if I can get more material on them. While Googling, I found that some scholar in Islamabad has done serious work on HinduShahi dynasty. If you have any contacts in that area, could you please check it out...

BTW, Khattars, Gondals etc. you mentioned in your post - is that part of folk lore or some serious work has been done about these people. Frankly speaking, I`ve never heard of these people.

Communal Stereotyping in Bollywood Movies Re: # 153

Cool :-)

I was more concerned about the real information getting relegated to background, because more effort goes into scoring points over each other. Anyways, Wikipedia says too little about HinduShahi dynasty. I couldn`t find any information on the ethnic origin of their rulers, but parts of Punjab were surely under their dominion. But then, their empire extended to present-day Afghanistan and parts of Kashmir as well. The NCERT books talk about the fateful battle of Jayapal with Ghazni. He lost. Having been disgraced, he lit his funeral pyre. I`ll check out the libraries and see if I can get more material on them. While Googling, I found that some scholar in Islamabad has done serious work on HinduShahi dynasty. If you have any contacts in that area, could you please check it out...

BTW, Khattars, Gondals etc. you mentioned in your post - is that part of folk lore or some serious work has been done about these people. Frankly speaking, I`ve never heard of these people.

Communal Stereotyping in Bollywood Movies Dionysus,

I understand your urge to share bits of information, but I fail to understand the fury and froth that accompanies your posts. Calling others `Black Bhaiyas`, distorting nicks `rahulmul` and pumping things like `you are full of it`, is disgraceful. From your posts I can make out a well read man. So, why don`t you just say whatever you want to, without resorting to profanities and name-calling. What say :-)

Communal Stereotyping in Bollywood Movies Dr Saab,

Is Malwa some area in Punjab? I saw that Kaura and Doinysus have mentioned it in their posts. I was only aware of Malwa plateau which is in M.P.

I agree Pbis became a force to reckon with only after Khalsa. If one excludes the last Guru, then the first great general was Banda. He was a brave Rajput who had taken to asceticism. Guru Gobind Singh went to his hermitage and ordered slaughter of buffaloes. This enraged the Rajput who lashed out at Guru for desecrating his sacred sanctuary. Guru told him, ``You are fretting over the killing of buffaloes in your courtyard, while people are being slaughtered like cattle in your entire country. Realizing his mistake, he fell on his knees and joined Khalsa.

Another question: Any idea when did Rajputs start using Singh in their names? Every time I turn the pages of History books, I come across names like PrithviRaj Chahmana, Durgadas Rathod, Rana Pratap Sisodiya etc...this Singh thing looks recent to me. Do you have any idea?

Communal Stereotyping in Bollywood Movies Kaure,

Thanks for the Sikh History site!

Except for Purus (or Porus) taking on the mighty Alexander, I can`t think of any instance where Pbis fought against external aggressions...if someone knows please share...

Communal Stereotyping in Bollywood Movies Kaure,

What is Bhapa, Kalal, Tarkhan, and Ramgaria?

Request to all, if you are using some term which others may not understand, a small description would be very handy..

Communal Stereotyping in Bollywood Movies Chaudhury Dionysus (hope u don`t mind the title after your spirited defence of Jats),

Please check out Ancient India by Romila Thapar. Two reasons why I recommend the book:

1) I`ve read the book. It is a good read even if you are not a History buff.
2) Thapar is considered a vamp by Sangh parivar and she is as anti-Hindu as it gets :-) This will satisfy some of your own stringent criteria which tend to label anything remotely against your preconceived notions as pro-Hindu, pro-India `spin`.

There is another one by a foreign author which is a good read just for the sake of prose, I`ll post the name tomorrow.

DMji,

If you`ve not read Thapar, you also try it.

DrLokraj & Greek philosopher,

Could you please share the pearls of wisdom and jokes with other people on this board who are not too well-versed in Punjabi :-)

This discussion was really good, I learnt a lot of new things. In the style of McDonald`s ad, `I`m loving it`. If only Amit, Nazar Saab and SameerJB (who has gone incommunicado) could join in, it would be a riot...

Communal Stereotyping in Bollywood Movies Re: # 78

DMji,

Who are Amrit-Dhaari Sikhs? The fellow I`m talking about always wears a white turban (don`t know whether it is relevant). He REALLY doesn not serve non-veg, though he may have taken me for a ride on the Kashmiri part.

You are right on the maansahaari bent of Kashmiri Pandits, I know some :-)

I thought Taamsik-Saatvik concept is only applicable for Vaishnavs. Aren`t Bengalis and Punjabis Shakts (Shakti-poojak)?

Communal Stereotyping in Bollywood Movies Re: # 73

``A turbuned sikh shouting, ``no if, no but, sirf Jatt``, is kind of an oxymoron because Sikhism as no caste. ``

Simran ji,

It is heartening to note that you are well-versed with the tenets of Sikhi and share them with fellow Chowkies. But, there are ground realities which must be acknowledged. It is no secret that Dharam Paji won his election from a constituency which had Jat majority. He is a popular actor and might have romped home even from some other constituency, but the party he represented did not take a chance. The party I`m talking about ostensibly supports end of casteism. Demands of practicality dictate such decisions and not some ersatz concept like `pillars of religion`. The producer of the movie also tried to take advantage of the prevalent `sense of superiority` amongst Jat Sikhs, as you pointed in your post.

Couple of years back, we used to go to a Dhaba for lunch. The proprietor was a turbaned Sikh. Having got bored of eating the same vegetables and tandoori rotis, we asked him for Egg Bhurji. The man refused to serve anything `non-veg` saying, ``Saab ji, Hum Pundit Hain, meat, anda nahin khate``; even my Kannadiga friend who has never been North of Vindhyas couldn`t suppress his smile of incredulity. On being probed, he told us that he is Kashmiri Pundit and even though they have converted to Sikhi, they still don`t eat meat. I don`t know whether he pulled a fast one :-)

Communal Stereotyping in Bollywood Movies Romair,

This is what Wikipedia says

``The largest difference between Urdu and Hindi is that Urdu is written in the Nasta`liq form of the modified Arabic script while Hindi is written in the Devanagari script.``

This is from the Hindi link

``Hindi along with Urdu is the second most spoken language in the world, after Chinese.``

So, both of us went to the same source and came out with different conclusions :-) You`ve found what massages your ego and I`ve found what interests me. We can argue till the end of time, but the fact is that Urdu/Hindi are one and the same language written in different scripts. Urdu became the rallying point of partition-partisans as reflected in slogan ``Urdu, Muslim, Pakistan`` while Hindi became the counter-point, ``Hindi, Hindu, Hindustan``.

It doesn`t take much to spin a new language if you have the political clout. The CARs are a case to support my point. Early 20th century, all CARs spoke mutually intelleigible forms of Turkish. The Russians made each of these dialects the official language of the corresponding republic and today Uzbek, Tukrmen, Kazakh and Kirghiz are pretty much different languages. Do you know what is the official language of Indonesia and how did it come into being?

``If they (Sardarjis) were passionately concerned about Punjabi`s survival, they should have asked for a nation of their own``

This tells us where you are coming from.

Bhains ke aage been bajawe, bhains khadi paguraaye Since Hindi and Urdu are different languages, you`ll not understand what is written above and I`ll be spared the reprisals, Thank God...

Communal Stereotyping in Bollywood Movies Delhi Bhai,

DrLokraj has explained the caste point very well in 17, it is an ideal, not the ground reality. KPS Gill broke the back of militancy in Punjab by invoking Jat pride. He frequently referred to struggle against militancy being Jat Sikh bunaam Jat Sikh. The boys from villages of Punjab were given 2000 per month, gun and freedom to `deal` with militants.

My take on language: Urdu and Hindi have the same root. A couple of centuries back, it was called Hindustani. If not for the script difference, most people of India and Pakistan would add both Hindi and Urdu in their CVs. If I learn the Arabo-Persian script, I can kick ass of many-a-pretenders from the other side of the border, in Urdu I mean :-) Infact, one of my buddies has proved this. He writes Urdu poetry and does a great job at it.