India Through Pakistani Eyes Re: # 51

Tahmed Sir,

Why do you feel that we have ill-wishes for your country? There are arguments, facts are presented (sometimes mis-represented) and `favours` are returned! It definitely falls in line with the netiquette - show no courtesy, expect none. It would be unfair to take such things to heart, hope you take such things in your stride :-)

A lower-middle class boy from a small town in UP, I was brought up on a steady diet of `we are a poor country`. Things started changing in late 90`s. Suddenly, we seemed to have come of age. PPP, GDP, defence expenditure, IT exports were in vogue. It is a good way of keeping poor people in good humour, but the ground situation hasn`t changed much.

Even today, when you board a morning train, scores of people are relieving themselves next to the railway line. If you look at them with unease, they stare back...`What`s with you?`

Definitely, we are doing much better than the growth stifling, inward-looking, competition-shunning years before `91...but there is a long way to go.

India Through Pakistani Eyes Re: # 31

Your Madarsa education is showing :-) ``Paath-shaala`` literally means school in Hindi. The term is a common currency in rural and semi-urban parts of BIMARU states. These schools are typically primary level, state funded and Hindi medium. If you saw `Swades`, the school in which the female protagonist teaches would qualify as a paathshaala.

And it is NOT a religious school...

India Through Pakistani Eyes A well-written, unbiased and well-informaed article, Thanks!

``An Indian friend hypothesized that knowledge of the other country is inversely proportional to the geographical distance between our countries.`` Good one :-)

``Similarities between the two countries exceed the differences.``
On a lighter note, both India and Pakistan are in gutter, knee-deep in human refuse. The difference is that Indians are looking up, Paksitanis are looking down.

Both countries consistently end up in top 10 on all human indices (off-course, from the bottom). Corruption is rampant, pollution, planning rule of law...what`s that? But, we really need to broadbase our education and continue economic reforms. This will lead to more prosperity and lead to betterment of quality of life. Yesterday, there was a survey result in ET that predicted middle-class will be 10-12% of population by 2009-10 fiscal. Upper middle will make up 1.7% of population. Middle-class definition was 2-12lakh per annum and upper-middle more than 12 lakh.

Catfood and Little Women Just hope it is not about the ersatz concept of love...being in a relationship, marrying only when one finds a soul mate. These ideas are fad in the crowd that never misses a single episode of `Sex and the City`. Despite the voyeurism on display, that serial used to fill me with a strange sadness. In that world, nobody is dependable. People are individualistic to the hilt, selfish to the core, decide to break-up at the drop of a hat, constantly need to prove themselves to their partner…It is a rough world.

Maybe the image of a husband who gets pot-bellied after a few years of marriage is disturbing, but isn’t the image of a husband who walks-out on you after getting a better looking female more disturbing. Before I’m branded a patronizing MCP…the last sentence was applicable for both men and women. A faithful life partner who cares for you and does not share your interests is any day better than one who likes the same Chocolate brand but…

Catfood and Little Women Amrita,

Thanks for a good read!

What do educated, self-reliant and upwardly-mobile women want? Is there an anger against `arranged` marriages, abusive marriages or marriages in general?

Most of the desi parents rely on the concept that there is an age for everything. So, if kids are not getting married after a certain age and they are well settled (earning), there is a cause for concern, and a legitimate one at that. Let`s suppose there is a woman who has finished her education, is employed and not in a stable relationship. In this situation, why is it wrong for parents to look for a suitable match? And suitability will be built on common denominators of caste, religion, language and region - Bengali speaking parents are more likely to look for prospective bridegroom in Bengali families. I don`t see anything wrong in that provided the girl gets a fair chance to assess the other person. Even in developed countries, there are matchmaking agencies, dating sites and singles` bars. What uncles and aunts accomplish back home is accomplished by professional people there.

The world of the Wise Lord Re: # 132

Amit,

What happened? Let`s have good relations with Pakistan, let`s celebrate the common culture and all that. But why aspersions on the character of a whole community? What gives?

``When Jaipal lost, his son Anand Pal regrouped.`` Yes! And you forgot to mention that he lit a funeral pyre after his defeat. You didn`t mention that there was a Jauhar in Ranthambhor after Rajputs lost to Khilji. You also overlooked that Rana Pratap ate leaves but did not compromise his honour. Heck, even Rana Sanga died fighting to Baber in Khanwa.

It is OK to be so-called lower caste and then convert citing exploitation and inequality. It is fine to be a descendant of Turk, Afghan and Arab, and flaunt Abdali as a part of your name. But, it is demeaning to call someone Rajput and Afzal Khan in the same vein. That wouldn`t leave much wriggling space, would it?

In the name of Holy Spirit, get real :-)

The world of the Wise Lord Re: # 104

Romair,

Interesting point! You talk of first names, heck I had not even heard of a Hindu last name (amongst Muslims). The first time I heard the name Najam Sethi, I rushed to my friend and told him that there are Hindus in Pakistan. He was skeptcial. He writes Urdu poetry and his exposure to Pakistan is much better than mine (has been going to common sites for a long time). He told me that it was a common practice in Pakistan to keep their Hindu last names.

In India, the only common thing is pet names. Bunty, Pappu, Munna, Chintoo etc. could turn out to be anyone of Sukhwinder, Mohan, Abbas :-)

The world of the Wise Lord Re: # 64

Urstruly,

You are a voracious reader and a gifted debater, my compliments! You are putting a lot of positive spin on an obviously indefensible practise and making it sound like a pearl :-) Can you kindly explain what that `token` tax was for and why it is not punitive?

The intent of this tax and all that goes along with it was a slick political strategy - humiliating the `infidels` into submission, making the living conditions so unpalatable that they convert to Islam rather than continue with miserable lives according to their belief systems. It was not a bed of roses. The non-Muslims were not allowed to ride horses, not allowed to bear arms and their houses should never be higher than that of Momins. There are other aspects to it and you can get the details on Dhimmi something site. I believe, Millat is a Turkish term and the Arabic original is Dhimma - the law that governs non-Muslims in a Muslim state.

The political conditions prompted the introduction of this law. After a few decades of extra-ordinary military success, Arabs settled into administration of their kingdom. They realized that they had a huge minority population in areas under their control. The option of Quran or sword was `ideal` but no longer practical. Besides, another round of bloodletting would strain the finances of the state and destabilize the empire. Another factor was that minorities were running the business in most of their dominions. So, it made more sense to switch to a `let live but keep pinching` policy from the earlier `Quran or Sword`.

The world of the Wise Lord Re: # 61

Feroz,

There is no such thing as Hindu text :-) Hindi, modern Sanskrit, Gujarati and Marathi are written in Devanagari script. Try this link for more details: http://www.ancientscripts.com/

Baloch Rights or Sardars’ Rights? HP,

Thanks for an informative article! I must add that it was written very professionally, hope to read more from you.

The world of the Wise Lord I feel the concept of Jaziya, allowing marriage with the people of the book and according the status of people of the book to some while denying it to others is more political than religious. In the days of Ummayyad dynasty, people were falling over each other to convert to Islam. The Jiziya tax imposed on the people was a huge burden and people wanted to get rid of it as soon as possible. But, if everyone converted it would deprive the state of a major source of revenue. So, conversion during that period was selective.

In India, the abhorrent tax was imposed based on the political strength of Turks. In times of turmoil, it did not make sense for a ruler to take additional panga by riling up the majority of subjects...so no Jiziya. As soon as ruler was in a position of strength, religiosity and Jiziya appeared on the scene. The tax was imposed by Alauddin Khilji and Muhammad Bin Tughlaq (the mad king). People like Akbar did not impose it because of their political foresight and not because of edicts in 7:14, if you get the drift :-) There were constant rebellions during Akbar`s reign as well - Rana Pratap is the most famous.

Aurangzeb is a peculiar case - most believe that his Jiziya decision was a manifestation of his zealotry, may be. I feel there is a political angle as well. Aur... was contending against Dara who was secular in his outlook. So, if Aur... had to mainitain his support base amongst the conservatives, he had to go for temple razings, Jiziya and so on. Some would ask - why did he do it after Dara was eliminated? Well, it is easy to eliminate a leader, more difficult to defeat the ideology he/she represents. There must have been sympathizers of Dara`s school of thought even after his death, so Aur... must rally his supporters.

And as Arjun_m says, allowing Muslims to marry `people of the book` does not count to a hill of beans. Muslim females can`t marry males from other religion, if they do, the male must convert to Islam. Non-Muslim females can marry into Muslim families without changing their faith, but their children will be raised as Muslims.

The world of the Wise Lord Re: # 32

Thanks! Will get in touch!

The world of the Wise Lord Re: # 24

Sammer,


``Although this is not the reason but Iran is included in the middle east rather than Asia or subcontinent in the name of related languages. ``

Where did you get that from? AFAIK, linguistic classification talks about Indo-European, Celtic (Irish, Scottish etc.), Semitic (Hebrew, Aramiac, Arabic etc. ) and Altaic (Turkish, Finnish etc. ) languages. Indo-European is sub-divided into European (Greek, Latin...), Indian (Sanskrit, Hindi, Bengali, Punjabi...) and Iranian groups. Iranian has West (Farsi, Kurdish ...) and East Iranian branches (Urdu, Pushto, Dari etc). What is a middle-eastern language?

There is some classification of European languages as well - Romance and Germanic. I believe, French, Romanian, Spanish and Italian fall in Romance categories while English, Danish, German etc are in Germanic family.

Try this link http://www.ethnologue.com/

The world of the Wise Lord Feroz,

I found this on the net

``The magnificent palace complex at Persepolis was founded by Darius the Great around 518 B.C., although more than a century passed before it was finally completed. Conceived to be the seat of government for the Achaemenian kings and a center for receptions and ceremonial festivities, the wealth of the Persian empire was evident in all aspects of its construction. The splendor of Persepolis, however, was short-lived; the palaces were looted and burned by Alexander the Great in 331-330 B.C. The ruins were not excavated until the Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago sponsored an archaeological expedition to Persepolis and its environs under the supervision of Professor Ernst Herzfeld from 1931 to 1934, and Erich F. Schmidt from 1934 to 1939. ``

Read the whole article at http://www.iranchamber.com/history/persepolis/persepolis1.php

The world of the Wise Lord Re: # 2

Feroz
``The Muslim invasion of Persia was really a mortal blow to Zoroastrian culture and Zoroastrianism and the great city of Perisipolis, was destroyed by the Muslims because of the ``idols`` it contained. ``

I remember seeing a program on History Channel - Persepolis. The presenter was some renowned British archaeologist. He said that Persepolis was burnt and destroyed by Alexander. He described the Macedonians as a bunch of mountain thugs and lamented that History has suffixed `great` to his name.

If my memory serves me right, the program said that Persepolis was discovered in 20th century. It was hidden from the rest of the world and therefore escaped total destruction from iconoclasts. Infact, Pehlavis took great pride in Persepolis, Cyrus and all that is associated with these words.

I`m not sure if Muslims destroying Persepolis is historically accurate...

The world of the Wise Lord Nazar Saab,

Thanks for a good read!

``Zoroastrianism lay waste and the Persians opted for their own version of Islam, the Shia sect. ``

Both Historically and theologically, this statement is incorrect. Shia Islam - a schism between the followers of Ali and others started in the formative years of Islam. As is well known, this sect formation or development happened in what is today`s Saudi Arabia and southern Iraq. Persians did not have a role in that. In fact, majority of Persians converted to Islam only around 10th century.

Another interesting thing is that Persians were Sunni Muslims till 16th century. Conversion to Shia Islam happened when Safavids took centrestage and declared Shia Islam as state religion.

No discussion of Zoarastrianism can be complete without ancient Persian (I forget whether it was Sassanian or Avestan). The language resembles ancient Sanskrit (Vedic) very closely. The H in Persian is S in Sanskrit. See this:
``of Zoroastrianism – Humata, Hukhta, Hvarshta``
Sumati, Su-(u)kti, Suvriti
Su - good in Sanskrit
mati - thinking, also used for brain
Ukti - spoken word
vriti - habit...not sure.

I`ve just tried a loose translation, maybe someone with better linguistic skills should help out.