Ayodhya Back On Top This Temporal fool loves to throw gasoline on any fire. The man is demented and needs to be committed.

A Changed Landscape of Kashmir Conflict #30, kaalchakra {``When parties begin to discuss their real concerns, as opposed to their stated ones, solutions will come.``}

Exactly. I am glad that we agree. Both India and Pakistan need to get to the table and ask each other what they really want and what they really mean. Pakistan`s concern for its water resources is a valid one as is Indian concern about keeping its portion of J&K as part of the Indian Union. Once they actually start caring for the people of Kashmir and the people of Pakistan and the people of India, they will come to sensible and reasonable decisions. Territory in the end belongs to the people who live there. Maybe there is a solution that protects Pakistan`s water, India`s territorial integrity, and provides for more self-rule for Kashmiris without the presence of all those Indian soldiers. Speaking of soldiers, maybe there is a solution for more self-rule for Pakis without the presence of all those Paki soldiers.

Salim

Our Turkic Connection ranjit #49, {``Yaar, my bitterness comes from the non-stop violence and killing going on in Kashmir and the never ending peace talks with Pakistan that do not lead to anything concrete. If we had normal relations, we can close the chapter on communal issues once and for all and move on in life.``}

The violence, bombings, and killings need to stop, no matter where they are occurring. We should do what is in the best interests of people, not just a 19th/20th century concept of we need the land, even if we have to accept the people with it.

Does Pakistan really care for the poor Kashmiris - Muslims or Hindus. I don`t think that Pakistan really cares. They don`t care for the Paki citizens stranded for 34 years in BD - and these were Pakis who supported Pakistand.

Let`s move on in life, rather than try to kill ourselves to kill a few more of our neighbors.

Our Turkic Connection #26 by ranjit {``If only we hindus had the foresight to construct a wall along our western borders, we would have been the best country in the world. ``}

Yaar ranjit, my Hindu ancestors tried, but the damned Moose Limbs just bribed the guards at the gates and they were let through. :)

Salim Ahmed Chauhan

Muslims Not Married in America Arjun #92, {:Not been married very long, have you :)
how`s it going man... ``}

No, I have not. Are you sharing something from your experience. :)
It`s great, I am very happy. Just miss the States, especially on the 4th of July.

Thanks for asking.
Salim

My Harvard Reunion Dillidost,
Very well-written and interesting article. I enjoyed your constant questioning of what you observe and how you attempt to provide rational answers.
I found the following very amusing:

{``You could still see some old timers hitting on young girl ushers who did not seem to mind the advances from old men. Frankly I never understood why they had 18 year old girls as ushers for every reunion tent.``}

Good job!

Salim Ahmed Chauhan

Our Turkic Connection Ranjit #34, {``I agree with you. But the ball is really in Pakistan`s court to acomplish this. Over the years, India has taken tremendous steps to implement a democratic and highly secular polity. In fact, the current government in power in Delhi is probably the most secular government in the world.``}

Yes, and India, as the more responsible and mature country needs to do even more. The secession of East Pakistan, the internal strife in Pakiland among Shias and Sunnis, and the constant failure of democratic regimes are all indications of the failed policy of partition. There never was a case for partition and the more India succeeds, the more obvious this will become to everyone - including the Pakis themselves.

Here is what I stated on the new Kashmir board.

Farooq Bhai,
You are a brave man to raise the Kashmir issue again. I have thought about this, debated with both Indians and Pakis about this, and have finally come to the following conclusion:

Pakistan`s position of ``give us Kashmir, hold a plebiscite in Kashmir, it`s a Muslim majority area and therefore belongs to Pakiland`` has rapidly deteriorated into utter nonsense.

Let`s see why?

India is not going to give Kashmir to Pakiland, just because Pakistan insists that it happen. Pakistan wanted Junagadh and Manavadar at one time and considered Hyderabad a disputed area also. I think we all agree that both Junagadh and Manavadar issues have long been settled, thanks to Pakiland finally forgetting about the impossible claims. Hyderabad never attained the level of a claim, and everyone agrees that Hyderabad is firmly in Andhra Pradesh and Maharashtra, both integral parts of India.

Holding a plebiscite in Kashmir, although the UN resolution demanded it, is not going to happen. UN resolutions, like old fish, tend to get smelly and disposable. There never was a plebiscite for the 1947 partition. The Muslim League winning majorities in Muslim majority provinces was not a blank check for partition. Also, one could argue that Indian Kashmir has had several elections, there have been elected Muslim Chief Ministers, and elected Muslim representatives more often than in Pakiland over the last 58 years.

Yes, Kashmir is a Muslim majority area and so are Sinkiang, Nazareth, Muradabad, maybe Bhopal, and even Hyderabad, and possibly parts of Southall, Jackson Heights, Mississuaga, and Chicago. A Muslim majority does not necessarily mean that all the people living there need to become citizens of a Pakiland or equivalent. By the way, Bangladesh is also an overwhelmingly Muslim area. India has the second largest Muslim population in the world and Indian Muslims appear to get along with each other much better than their coreligionists in Pakiland. That ought to be good for some points, at least.

Enough time and energy has been wasted in trying to make every excuse in the world to get Kashmir to become a part of Pakistan. If Pakis were more honest, they would say simply that Kashmir is necessary because almost all of Pakiland`s water resources pass through it. Perhaps, if Pakiland agreed to the LoC as the border, then India could provide guarantees for Pakis` liquid concerns.

Salim Ahmed Chauhan

A Changed Landscape of Kashmir Conflict Farooq Bhai,
You are a brave man to raise the Kashmir issue again. I have thought about this, debated with both Indians and Pakis about this, and have finally come to the following conclusion:

Pakistan`s position of ``give us Kashmir, hold a plebiscite in Kashmir, it`s a Muslim majority area and therefore belongs to Pakiland`` has rapidly deteriorated into utter nonsense.

Let`s see why?

India is not going to give Kashmir to Pakiland, just because Pakistan insists that it happen. Pakistan wanted Junagadh and Manavadar at one time and considered Hyderabad a disputed area also. I think we all agree that both Junagadh and Manavadar issues have long been settled, thanks to Pakiland finally forgetting about the impossible claims. Hyderabad never attained the level of a claim, and everyone agrees that Hyderabad is firmly in Andhra Pradesh and Maharashtra, both integral parts of India.

Holding a plebiscite in Kashmir, although the UN resolution demanded it, is not going to happen. UN resolutions, like old fish, tend to get smelly and disposable. There never was a plebiscite for the 1947 partition. The Muslim League winning majorities in Muslim majority provinces was not a blank check for partition. Also, one could argue that Indian Kashmir has had several elections, there have been elected Muslim Chief Ministers, and elected Muslim representatives more often than in Pakiland over the last 58 years.

Yes, Kashmir is a Muslim majority area and so are Sinkiang, Nazareth, Muradabad, maybe Bhopal, and even Hyderabad, and possibly parts of Southall, Jackson Heights, Mississuaga, and Chicago. A Muslim majority does not necessarily mean that all the people living there need to become citizens of a Pakiland or equivalent. By the way, Bangladesh is also an overwhelmingly Muslim area. India has the second largest Muslim population in the world and Indian Muslims appear to get along with each other much better than their coreligionists in Pakiland. That ought to be good for some points, at least.

Enough time and energy has been wasted in trying to make every excuse in the world to get Kashmir to become a part of Pakistan. If Pakis were more honest, they would say simply that Kashmir is necessary because almost all of Pakiland`s water resources pass through it. Perhaps, if Pakiland agreed to the LoC as the border, then India could provide guarantees for Pakis` liquid concerns.

Salim Ahmed Chauhan

A Changed Landscape of Kashmir Conflict Farooq Bhai,
You are a brave man to raise the Kashmir issue again. I have thought about this, debated with both Indians and Pakis about this, and have finally come to the following conclusion:

Pakistan`s position of ``give us Kashmir, hold a plebiscite in Kashmir, it`s a Muslim majority area and therefore belongs to Pakiland`` has rapidly deteriorated into utter nonsense.

Let`s see why?

India is not going to give Kashmir to Pakiland, just because Pakistan insists that it happen. Pakistan wanted Junagadh and Manavadar at one time and considered Hyderabad a disputed area also. I think we all agree that both Junagadh and Manavadar issues have long been settled, thanks to Pakiland finally forgetting about the impossible claims. Hyderabad never attained the level of a claim, and everyone agrees that Hyderabad is firmly in Andhra Pradesh and Maharashtra, both integral parts of India.

Holding a plebiscite in Kashmir, although the UN resolution demanded it, is not going to happen. UN resolutions, like old fish, tend to get smelly and disposable. There never was a plebiscite for the 1947 partition. The Muslim League winning majorities in Muslim majority provinces was not a blank check for partition. Also, one could argue that Indian Kashmir has had several elections, there have been elected Muslim Chief Ministers, and elected Muslim representatives more often than in Pakiland over the last 58 years.

Yes, Kashmir is a Muslim majority area and so are Sinkiang, Nazareth, Muradabad, maybe Bhopal, and even Hyderabad, and possibly parts of Southall, Jackson Heights, Mississuaga, and Chicago. A Muslim majority does not necessarily mean that all the people living there need to become citizens of a Pakiland or equivalent. By the way, Bangladesh is also an overwhelmingly Muslim area. India has the second largest Muslim population in the world and Indian Muslims appear to get along with each other much better than their coreligionists in Pakiland. That ought to be good for some points, at least.

Enough time and energy has been wasted in trying to make every excuse in the world to get Kashmir to become a part of Pakistan. If Pakis were more honest, they would say simply that Kashmir is necessary because almost all of Pakiland`s water resources pass through it. Perhaps, if Pakiland agreed to the LoC as the border, then India could provide guarantees for Pakis` liquid concerns.

Salim Ahmed Chauhan

Our Turkic Connection Ranjit #32, {``This opposition is against the entire hindu faith across all cultural differences i.e. the Punjabi hindu is hated as much as the Tamilian hindu or the Kashmiri hindu. The logic behind this hatred or opposition is simple - propagate the faith by pulling down the local religion and create a class of people loyal to muslim rulers. ...

Now if South Asian muslims really give up their opposition to hindus and behave like their counterparts in Iran and Afghanistan in terms of affinity to local culture, then the dynamics can change. If there is no threat, there is no need for a defense.``}

Ranjit, my friend, I do not blame you for having that type of black and white attitude about Muslims and Islam. The track record of Muslims in the subcontinent has not been exemplary from the conquest of Mohammed Bin Qasim all the way down to the partition of 1947. Of course, there were numerous periods and examples of justice, affection, compassion, and understanding. What you are missing is that as cruel as Muslim rule and Muslim conqueriors may have been, they were equally, if not more, cruel to other Muslims. Please do not look at Islam and Muslims as a monolith. The religious wars between Shias and Sunnis, as recently as Iraq/Iran and the blowing up of Shia mosques in Pakistan are examples of the basic intolerance that permeates the Islamic experience and Muslim history. Believe me, Hindus were not singled out for destruction, butchery, and intolerance. Muslims excel in doing these things to other Muslims. As they say, charity begins at home.
Let`s try to make the present and future better. Not much can be done about the past. I think India, with the 2nd largest Muslim population in the world with its democratic credentials and renowned tolerance, is the ideal place to prove that good will overcome evil for all people.

Our Turkic Connection Khan Sahib,
Thank you for this very interesting article about the impact of the Turkic peoples. History is fascinating when enjoyed for its sheer existence and not for any ulterior purpose. You have done that.
Thanks,
Salim Ahmed Chauhan.

Are all Women Witches? {``the suffering witch can still feel the revolting smell of faeces in her mouth``}

Yup. That sounds like Semen Asha.

Who Created Pakistan? #198, Khamkhwa {``ranjit wants indian muslims to be converted to hinduism:}

Not a bad idea, considering that Moose Limbs in Pakiland don`t accept so many other Moose Limbs anyway. Time for India to make another tactical move as in `71.

Who Created Pakistan? Re: # 198
What caste do Aishwarya Rai and Priyanka Chopra belong to? :)
Count me in. Maybe I still count as Kshatriya?

Muslims Not Married in America I was a Moose Limb living in America for almost fifteen years. Instead of marrying in America to a FOB desi, an ABCD, a kaali, or a gori, I decided to marry a Turk in Turkey. Good decision. I am very happy as a result. :)
Salim

Who Created Pakistan? Pakistan was created so that Sadna and Mantolives could debate ad nauseum whether Moose Limbs are members of a religion, a nation, a language group, a race, or a Lodge.

Salim