Pakistan’s Choice Good article. May peace prevail!

Will Pakistanis Listen and Act? I agree with Tahmed that Pakistanis should have the right to self determination for themselves before advocating it for Kashmiris. I would like to add that right to self determination should be for mature and responsible people(s). There should be a proven track record of tolerance and commitment to democracy. After all rights come after responsibilities. Beside those who do not respect others` right to life lose any right to rights.

Will Pakistanis Listen and Act? Re: # 170 Actually most of these people do have some sort of a roof over their heads but its only just. They live in urban slums.

Will Pakistanis Listen and Act? I went to the other thread (Kashmiri Pandits). It`s kinda scary out there! Ye kissa hai kya aakhir?

Will Pakistanis Listen and Act? Re: # 167 Tahmed: Actually something as basic as a lavatory is or is considered to be a luxury by a section of urban poor. In their case it is more of a economic issue than attitudinal shelter and food being the foremost priorities.

Will Pakistanis Listen and Act? Re: # 164 Muqaddam, Kaalchakra, Ajeya, Arjun: I am glad that finally we are talking about development issues. Graphic details provided here by our friends should only serve to make these issues a priority . I wonder if some of our resources could be pooled together to help out these people with basic requirements like sanitation. It will go a long way in making India the country we all cherish so much for it to be.

Will Pakistanis Listen and Act? #151 Kaalchakra: Sometimes democracy is not a solution but a problem. I believe Bihar is a case in point. In case of our good neighbour Pakistan Democracy is probably a solution if not the solution.

Will Pakistanis Listen and Act? Re: # 148 Kaalchakra: You cornered me there! I think the challenge is terrorism. My problem is not terrorism as such but its spread. Our aim is to arrest its growth. Terrorism can possibly not be wiped out completely but contained.

I concede that this is a very broad and inaccurate statement and needs refinements.

Will Pakistanis Listen and Act? Re: # 146 What follows from your post is:
i) No concessions
ii) Continued pressure
iii) Social isolation of target population

There are problems in this approach. The enemy is not easily definable. It is a concept that has to be defeated. Isolation and aggression only harden the non combatant sympathisers. My worry is the latter group. We must arrest the chain reaction. Good old nicety is one `naive` way of doing it.

Will Pakistanis Listen and Act? Re: # 142 Kaalchakra
Operation Save the World
Objective: Contain/Eradicate terrorism
i) Short term
ii) Long term

Proposed Method: Bring about attitudinal change in the target population.

Pertinent Questions: Can attitudes be changed by converting people to your way of thinking by logical argument?

Answer: Most of the times, No. Proof: Chowk.

So it has to be done on an emotional level only. If they respond to religion give them religion. The credibility of the agent population with the target population increases with emotional warmth and genuineness of speech and action.

Moral of the story: Munnabhai ....

What to do with non-responders? Agent population has people of the target `type` too. Let them deal with it with force if necessary. Agent population of the other type should give moral help and material support if necessary.

Your turn ...

Will Pakistanis Listen and Act? Re: # 130 Yes, Amit. I agree with your views. There are of course vested interests. We Indians, however, should desist from seeking mileage from our neighbour`s predicament. We must act mature. Rejoicing in their crisis is not a good idea.

Will Pakistanis Listen and Act? Re: # 128 I think we can arrive at a bit more clarity. There is OBL and cohorts who constitue the epicenter of terrorism. They have a certain political agenda based on a certain distorted worldview. They function in utmost secrecy yet there are agents among general populace who recruit and spread the gospel. They are able to do it because

i) They use a religious idiom preaching hate and superiority of Islam. While everyone can privately think that his religion is superior when mixed with a hateful and violent message it is very inciteful and lethal. It holds true even for Hindu fanatics. I need not elaborate.

ii) Then there is public at large. A large number of them actually celebrate every time there is an act of terror in Western capitals. They hold these suicide bombers as their heroes and martyrs. These guys are actually venting out their impotent anger at circumstances they are generally in. Democracy is said to act like a valve to release such pent up emotions in an institutionalised way. If they think there government is colluding with the West against their wishes people would recall such government. It is always better than emotional immature young men doing what they did. As I earlier said Pakistani Britons and Pakistanis diaspora in general stay Pakistanis and never (almost) identify with their adopted country fully. They are also not in sufficient numbers or do not hold sufficient financial muscle in these countries to actually change governments or influence policy significantly. Hence I said a feeling of alienation and powerlessness prevails. Situation at home is no better at home. The youth of this population irrespective of whether they are in Pakistan or outside are susceptible due to all these factors coupled with emotional immaturity.

iii) Therefore I propose that a line of action should be such that the catchment population is weaned away from the `epicenter` while engaging the actual combatant by force. The strategy can be manifold but empowerment of the man in the street is most important. Only way of doing that , I know of, is democracy across the Muslim world.

iv) Take the case of Hasba bill. The other day I opposed it but on this test I now think its better these guys do these things and feel powerful than shooting around.

I admit that at best the above is at best an amateur attempt. None of this in anyway means that I understand or support the ideology of hatred.

Will Pakistanis Listen and Act? Re: # 117 Kaalchakra: Interesting views especially no. 2). Could you please elaborate that one?

There are terrorists and there are their sympathisers/supporters. We need to fight terrorists and wean away (give lollipops if u like) their sympathisers. One way is to counter the terrorist/jehadi propaganda with propaganda of your own. English language and cyberspace is a poor medium for that. I am afraid gagging the liberal opinion is not one of the good options. Don`t try to understand terrorism for it is calculated madness. Their public support is what we need to cut off. Democracy does help. As you pointed out in point 1) there is introspection going on and we should wait for the results. Difficult road this one.

Will Pakistanis Listen and Act? Re: # 98 Kalchakra: Actually they don`t consider themselves to be a part of their adopted country. A Briton of Pakistani origin is actually a Pakistani. He does not identify with Britain. He identifies with Pakistan. His participation in British elections does not make a difference to the outcome. Whereas backhome there is no democracy. So virtually this guy is disenfranchised. He is powerless to affect any change of policy. Indian Muslim makes sure by his voting behaviour that BJP does not win. He feels empowered. Islam is the same for both. Of course the issue cannot be that simple and unidimensional.

Will Pakistanis Listen and Act? Re: # 101 What is a `Muslim Attire`` ?

Will Pakistanis Listen and Act? Re: # 92 I think terrorism would not survive a day without popular support among certain sections. This section tends to feel alienated and powerless. This is the powerlessness of a society that has a weak if any democratic tradition. Indoctrination has also a lot to do with accentuating this feeling of powerlessness. For obvious reasons youth become easy recruits.

If all this is untrue there must be something to explain why fewer terrorists come from democratic countries (and I mean real participatory democracy involving the group) than from non democratic countries.