Towards a shackled society, perhaps RawDust #30, {``Awami League proclaimed Independence from Pakistan AFTER Yahya Khan started Operation SearchLight on 25th, March 1971``}

You are right. Awami League proclaimed independence afterwards. But who were they to proclaim independence. They had won the right to represent East Pakistan in the national assembly - the voters had not given them a blank check to proclaim independence. Rightfully a referendum would have given that manadate. Not that I care - I am just trying to establish the point about political parties ``winning`` elections and then using that victory as a mandate to do things that the electrote did not really empower them with. Similarly, the Muslim League winning elections in a handful of British Indian provinces shouldn`t have given them the right to pursue partition.
In the case of Mujibur Rahman, there are other circumstances, e.g. Agartala Conspiracy, etc., but that would really send us on a tangent.
Salim

London’s Hour of Reckoning #494 by mohar11 {``And they did it again. CNN reports more bombs today.``}

Hi Mohaor. And to think some people want to put subways (undergrounds, metros) in Lahore and Karachi. It`s like opening a bank in Jesse James` hometown. :)
Salim

Towards a shackled society, perhaps Omar,
Look at the silver lining in the cloud. At least the Mullahs are not tainted by the curse of provincialism. Now, comparing Fazloo MiaN to Hitler is not fair - Hitler, though terrible, blood-thirsty, and a warmonger, was a bit better looking and many chldren actually liked him. :)

Salim

Getting Hooked What a stupid display of utter stupidity. Take your own advice and stick an agarbatti up your ass.

PS - don`t forget to light it first. :)

London’s Hour of Reckoning Dost Mittar #491, {``Lesson: Tolerance and nobility has to be combined with strength. Answer? Sikhism :) ``}

As long as you remove the Islam-inspired thread of violence that seems to permeate throughout Sikh history :)
Salim

Towards a shackled society, perhaps Omar,
You have raised a very good dilemma in your article. You state:

{``One cannot find a more telling example of this from history than Adolf Hitler who was put into power by massive electoral majorities, and rose to become the chancellor of Germany.
The point here is not to compare the MMA with the Third Reich but to emphasize that sometimes even elected governments can make terrible mistakes, and the MMA-led one in the NWFP may well be on its way to that.``}

Of course Hitler is just one glaring and horrible example of the many charlatans who have used ``democracy`` to advance their own nefarious goals. Demagogues preach whatever will sell to get into power and then ensure that they stay in power for as long as possible. They translate these victories into sweeping mandates for implementation of extreme positions that the electorate never imagined. Here are some other cases where a simple election victory was turned into a nightmare:

1. Awami League`s election victory in East Pakistan was used by Shaikh Mujibur Rahman to declare independence for Bangladesh.
2. All India Muslim League`s election victories in Punjab, Bengal, NWFP, and Sind were translated into a ``mandate`` for partition.
3. Bhutto`s victories in Punjab and Sind were translated into his unquestioned authority over West Pakistan.
4. Modi`s victories in Gujrat province meant that his cohorts and followers could murder, rape, pillage, and burn as they pleased.

I am sure there are several others.

Salim

Towards a shackled society, perhaps Omar,
Hi. How are you? You have provided a very well written article and presented the dilemma facing Pakistan so objectively. I admire your ability in presenting this thorough analysis. I found the following to be both amusing and a tribute to the foresight of Paki politicians:

``Passed in the face of stiff opposition from the opposition MPAs and after an amendment which exempts all members of the provincial assembly from its applicability, the Hasba bill could well push the province into a process of Talibanization.``

Omar, Pakistan is facing a violent altercation between at least two forces - the right-wing religious fundos and the so-called ``liberal progressive`` Pakis. Both of these groups have no commitment or stake in democracy. Each wants to win fair elections as long as they are the last fair ones to be held. I say plague on both of their houses. We have seen what the liberals are capable of - Bhutto 1, Bhutto 2, and Nawaz. They tend to turn into ``civilian`` (nothing civil about them) dictators who muzzle the press, loot the nation, and advance only their female relatives while suppressing the majority of women further into eternal servitude. The mullahs are bent on Tally Banizing ALL of Pakistan. From what we have witnessed in Afghanistan, it will be open season on women, girls, homos, Shias, Ahmedis, Ismailis, Sufis, artists, singers, rock bands, Meera, and anyone else whose beard is not proportional to the gap between their front teeth.

That is why we are unfortunately blessed with Mushy. This man is walking the tightrope between the dual calamities of right-wing fundoism and liberal hooliganism. The fundos have Tally Ban Afghanistan as a model while the liberal scum want to turn Pakistan into a Philippines of the Marcos era. The liberals, of whom Temporal is both a leading example and vocal supporter, want to turn Pakistan into an oligarchy for the privileged few. These are the bribe-taking corrupt ``educated`` classes who has among them bored, obese, and useless housewives doing goody goody two shoes worthless charitable events such as the Lahore Marathon. They hoard their ill-gotten gains in overseas accounts and build castles in England with villas on the Med. They send their spoilt children overseas for ``advanced`` education and mutter the mantra of equality, freedom, and ``progress.`` We all know who these liberals are and I hope the Mullahs obliterate them before themselves committing shahadat in the deserts of Pakistan. Let`s hope and pray for Mushy`s good health. I never thought that a day would come when we would consider military dictatorship as salvation of the country.
Anyway, thanks for an excellent essay.
Your friend,
Salim Ahmed Chauhan

How Free is ’free?’ Khamkhwa #42,
Once again you are displaying your pukka Paki credentials of yellow journalism. You deliberately presented only one side of the issue. Is there any wonder why the world is learning to detest Pakis? It`s primarily because of people like you. Changing the subject, now tell me how the Kashmiris would be free under Paki rule.

Salim

The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto 34, Son of Owl,
You are so correct. I got sick of the details. It`s one thing to know that a man was murdered - it`s worse to hear the gory details of his suffering. At least, Zia the ba$tard got his in the end.

Who Tarnished the Image of Pakistan? Hi arjun,
Yes. I have to keep switching nics to keep them confused. It`s guerilla warfare. I get so mad sometimes that I feel like like .... never mind :)
I notice that you have been quite busy the last few days. That`s a lot of research, my friend.
Salim

Who Tarnished the Image of Pakistan? Muzzling people so they don`t embarrass the establishment is an age-old practice in Pakistan. Press censorship, selective editing, and coercion are commonplace in the Land of the Pure. What the military regime did is no different than what Chowk does. Messages and threads of individual interactors are blatantly erased, while those of their opponents, usually Chowk`s favorites (so-called ``liberal and progressive`` Pakis) are left intact. I guess this is one way to win arguments and present an untarnished image of the realm. What goes around comes around. The only difference is whose ox is being gored. A thousand curses on Pakis and their suppression of truth.
Salim

Dina Wadia Claims Jinnah House While there were many Muslims in the Quit India movement, the bunch that created Pakiland was not known for its anti-British agitation.
Salim

Dina Wadia Claims Jinnah House rsridhar, #124,
{``Indian freedom fighters worked hard for freedom.``}

So, an appropriate question would be:

``How many times did Mr. Jinnah go to jail for resisting the British?``

I don`t think that number is even ONE. :)

Dina Wadia Claims Jinnah House Mike,
Thank you for the kind thread that you started for Salim. I have always appreciated your support and your persistence in exposing the hypocrisy of these so-called Paki liberals.
Your friend,
Salim

Dina Wadia Claims Jinnah House The views of the ``liberal`` Pakis have really turned me into someone who detests Pakiland even more than your average Indian interactor. These Paki liberals are clamoring for women`s rights, freedom of speech, and return to democracy in Pakistan. Here on Chowk, a medium that is undobtedly under their insidious control, they practice the most draconian form of selective censorship, favoritism, and blatant prejudice. Is there any doubt about how they will behave if they ever come to power? No wonder the Mullas and the Army don`t trust them and mete out to them what they do to others on Chowk. At least the right-wing Mullas (and I can`t really support them either) have some principles. These pusillanimous Paki liberals are the manifestation of tyranny.

Salim

Dina Wadia Claims Jinnah House I am having my own problems with so-called liberal Pakis on Chowk. So, please allow me to stray a little from the main topic and remind Mr. Temporal and other Paki liberals on Chowk about their hypocrisy.

Fitting response to Mr. Temporal:

Mr. Temporal,
I do not care about establishing credibility with you. As far as I am concerned, I see you as a flagrantly blatant hypocrite. You condone and even applaud profanity expressed by Scout, Saminasha, and others. While you continue you to be the putrid, pusillanimous, pundit of Paki politics and you selfishly champion all kinds of liberal leftist causes, you fail to recognize, or you choose to ignore, basic freedoms of expression of common western values of individual rights here on Chowk. The various so-called avatars are due to the injustic perpetrated by you and your slavish minions called Chowk Staff.

While you may decide that people like me are not wanted here on Chowk, there are many Americans and westerners who do not want your presence in their countries either. So, go back to Pakiland, where you would fit right in, except that you would be on the receiving end of tyranny with the likes of Mushy and the Mullahs. Plague be on both your houses, sir.

Salim