Citizenship and Identity in Pakistan Re: # 160 Kaal

``PewResearch, mohar, folio et al would argue that he (YLH) is the only one. ``

Not at all. YLH is not a liberal. He is a fanatic. `A fanatic is one who can`t change his mind and won`t change the subject.` (Winston Churchill)

Militant Liberalism Re: # 349

Where is that mofo dictator? And why is he not comforting Shabana Raza, the widow of Syed Hammad Raza?

Citizenship and Identity in Pakistan Re: # 156 Kaal

``...Pakistani liberals may discuss this important issue,...``

You make it sound like YLH is performing a triple heart bypass and a liver transplant all at the same time, and that somehow a few errant bytes on Chowk will kill the `patient`. Well, you need to let go of your delusions, and remember that YLH`s theory is inconsequential. Pakistani `liberals` are incapable of anything good. We need a good pathan with a thick turban and beard to match to take the helm in Pakistan to complete the irony of Jinnah`s vision.

Citizenship and Identity in Pakistan Re: # 139 Rafi Aamer

``..what were Jinnah`s ideals?...``

That is part of the problem, don`t you see? His lack of clarity in everything, except Muslim majoritanism was bound to raise suspicions about his agenda. Would you ever sign a contract to buy a house that you don`t know very well? Would Warren Buffet ever buy stock in a company that he did not understand? Nehru/Patel saw through Jinnah`s agenda, and rejected it because they knew that it was going to be an unmanageable disaster and that he was unleashing demons. It has proven to be that today (and in `71). Yet, YLH carries on beating a dead horse because he has nothing else to go by.

Citizenship and Identity in Pakistan Re: # 143 Kaal:

``Manto is challenging other liberal Pakistanis to rise upto the occasion - in fact he is challenging the integrity of their very beliefs - asking that at least now, may be sixty years late, they make what Jinnah wanted happen in Pakistan.``

You are on a fool`s errand like YLH is. Jinnah`s Pakistan is no more - it died in `71. Only the name remains in its remaining western less-than-half. What Jinnah wanted in Pakistan is indeed happening today. He irrationally believed that Muslim majority was necessary, and subtly implied that they would be better protectors of their minorities than `Hindus`. Well, we all now know how well that went. Ask Bangladeshis, or Pakistani Christians/Hindus, or Quaidianis, if you don`t believe me. Indian Muslims are freer than Pakistanis and all Arabs/Persians. Indians are more free, healthier, more educated, richer, more advanced politically, diplomatically, militarily, scientifically than Pakistanis. That is Jinnah`s enduring legacy. You can ignore all this and continue to debate the fringe issues and theory/abstract.

Nehru/Patel saw through Jinnah`s veneer and made absolutely the right call in rejecting the Cabinet Mission Plan. Manto is challenging the `liberal Pakistanis` to rise to an occasion on the basis of a false premise. It is doomed to failure. There is not much of a `liberal Pakistani` class left.

Citizenship and Identity in Pakistan Re: # 133 Kaal
Look, Kaal, YLH has chosen not to ``assert (if he so believes, which is does) that Pakistan would be (would have been) better off implementing Jinnah`s ideas than following whatever path it took`` in his response. What does that tell you about the hollowness of his claims?

Citizenship and Identity in Pakistan Re: # 133 Kaal
``all Yasser has to do is to assert (if he so believes, which is does) that Pakistan would be (would have been) better off implementing Jinnah`s ideas than following whatever path it took.``

Great, let him prove it. I would love to poke holes in his `proof`. As far as I know, Pakistan got derailed on Day 1 after it began following Jinnah`s ideals (when Pakistan was formed). It has been downhill ever since with a waypoint in `71 (Bangladesh). If taking Step 1 derailed Pakistan, how will Steps 2, 3, 4 and others matter? In any case, let YLH still prove the hypothetical. I don`t think that he has the skills for it because the case cannot be made. It is akin to proving the existence of God. Can you `prove` God exists?

This is elementary logic. Do you understand algebra? By the way, do you understand the rigor that is required to make a `proof` and the scrutiny that that `proof` should be able to withstand? I suggest that the best YLH can do is conjecture, not prove. However, the evidence is strongly mounting against him. I could not be in a more cheery mood.

Citizenship and Identity in Pakistan Re: # 131 `Leave the debate`
`Idealogical honesty` is a cropper in front of `idealogical stupidity` and the latter is what YLH exemplifies. To not talk about Jinnah`s ideology crumbling, would be like ignoring the flaws of Das Kapital in Moscow in 1991. I am relishing every moment of this imbecilic debate
And who are you to order me off the debate, Herr Kaalchakra or YLH`s sidekick? (@#$Behncho..*&%$)

YLH 130
You have to prove that Pakistan is better off than India today to convince me that TNT was better for Pakistan. You have to prove to me today that you are on a better economic, political, diplomatic, social, military, international relations trajectory. If you can`t prove that, you have lost, and your words are just hot air.

Citizenship and Identity in Pakistan Re: # 123
YLH
Check out the graphic that I posted that shows that in 17 years, only 20% of India`s population will be below the poverty line according to McKinsey & Co. That means lifting 4 Pakistans out of poverty. Jinnah`s dreams have come to become the nightmare of streetfights between pathaans and muhajirs in Karachi, and the dictator`s henchmen killing court witnesses. But, his TNT theory was good, or was it?

Your claim of 850 million people not getting clean drinking water is hogwash, unsupported by evidence.

Citizenship and Identity in Pakistan Re: # 117 Manto

Care to back up your assertion with facts? You won`t find enough to make a conclusive case. Infosys market capitalization is greater than the entire KSE. That should put paid to your emotional outburst, young man. That is a perfect testimonial to Jinnah`s dreams. Go, pick a street fight in Karachi now.

Did you listen to that fine song by Mawer Sultana? I really like it.

Citizenship and Identity in Pakistan Re: # 109 YLH
Actually, you should be worried about the converse: Pakistan`s descent into darkness. India`s rise to greatness is a pre-ordained outcome. There is nothing that you can do about it. Jinnah`s `brilliance` is now coming to the fore - and you are still getting suckered by it.

Citizenship and Identity in Pakistan Re: # 98 YLH

Your reference to Kaalchakra twice when you are cornered in an argument is quite revealing. Why do you feel the urge to call him to your defense? Why can`t you rebut your ideas on your own? Why do you need his help? When Jinnah`s Pakistan goes down in the flames of a sectarian war in Karachi with Mohajirs engaging in pitched battles against Pathans, Kaal won`t bail out your butt! By the way, did you listen to the
fine song on the Quaid by Mawer Sultana?
Ae Islam ke sipahi...Muhajir Koran liye chal pare...Tera ehsaan hai. I can`t stop humming to the tune

Citizenship and Identity in Pakistan Re: # 84

Mantolives:

As Jinnah`s dream breaks down bit by bit in front of your eyes, at least have some the courage to confront it directly, instead of running away with your tail between your legs.

CIAO

Citizenship and Identity in Pakistan Re: # 82 Kaalchakra

``The most amazing thing about this article is that a Pakistani person has proposed that his country implement Mr. Jinnah`s social vision. ``

Big deal. Ideas are nothing without execution. YLH`s ideas are flawed anyway. No need to execute them. But, you are more than welcome to invest your time in his ideas.

Citizenship and Identity in Pakistan Re: # 78

``...Please believe me, he wrote this ONLY for Pakistan...``

Irrelevant. His ideas (if they can be called that) cannot be viewed purely in a vacuum. They have to be able to withstand the scrutiny that only a comparison allows.

Citizenship and Identity in Pakistan Re: # 76 Kaalchakra

``Whatever else he might or might not have cared for in today`s Pakistan, Jinnah would have been very proud of this article ...``

I`ll accept that concession speech. We are now down to debating marginal issues, and not the main issue of whether Jinnah`s dream will ever play catch up with its nemesis.