Pak Armed Forces vs. Pakistan #183 by Urstruly, #184 by tahmed32

``Muhammed is not a god...`` ``....preserved for purely educational purpose but after seeing what some Muslims do to graves and dead pirs...`` ``hostorical purposes...``

Can you explain why Muslim people have this urge to get into idolatry? This, although they know that it is forbidden. How do you explain their tilt towards ``worshipping`` such places or people. Don`t you think that even if the building or image is not physically there, it may exist in their minds? The urge is obviously so strong that authorities have to destroy the place rather than just tell everyone that they are not supposed to do it.
In india, I have not seen any middle class Muslim house without the photo of Kaaba promonently displayed. Their assocaition with it is very similar to the photo of Laxmi or Ganesha in a Hindu house. What is wrong with someone having ``reverence`` for something or someone to a level you can call it ``devotion``? IMHO, muslims really worship Mohammad ..this devotion is so strong among a great majority of muslims .... while a great majority of Hindus have not that much respect/devotion for God himself.

A Thousand Cuts #263 by wiseguyin

Many have already done this. And long time back. It happened at least in Maharashtra in late 60`s . No one protested even though it was publicized. I think such customs, even though followed, people do not quite believe in them any more. Let alone whether a son or daughter does, many do not even do this and many large Hindu communities do not even know what it is...although they have heard the term ...probably in stories and mythology.

A Thousand Cuts So, what does it mean. ALLAH IS NOT PERFECT. His creations have an imperfection. If he was so powerful and understanding, why didn`t he eliminate prepuces? Even if he did not think of in the beginning, it should have been be an easy thing to ``fix`` it.
If unnecessary things that have the possibility of getting infected should be eliminated .. Don`t you think we should get rid of brains of putative mullah kids? Or it is not possible because they do not have one? Interesting questions...

US–India Deal and Kashmir In the other board on apostasy, there were many definitions given. Many islamists (& Hamid too ...what has happened to him recently?) wanted to white-wash it as though it was not really religious issue, but was just ``treason``. Now they want to say Kashmir is a not a religious issue (sigh), but only a nationality issue. Do Kashmiris asking for merging with Pakistan qualify to be apostates? Can Qranic judgement be passed by India on them for that....

Assessing Pakistani Science #124 Urstruly
#125 Behram

I think you did not factor in the Muslim population in India! If factored in, your equation will be fine. Actually it will be better than the 6:1 ratio.

But, seriously... You have to take into account the infrastructure that had (and still does in some fileds) prevented high quality research for many in India. As a person who did Ph.D in biochemistry during late 70s, I can describe you the situation. We did not have the luxury of selecting any problem and conducting every expt we thought out /was needed for our research hypothesis. WE did not have money to buy those chemicals and appratus and instruments. So, we had to limit our work to WHAT we COULD do. It was similar situation for others who needed such infrastructure. When these people came out of INdia into the West where the infrastructure was there, they could do high quality research and publish. Therefore, to calculate the correct citation index ratios, you have to include these researchers (of Indian origin) as from India. That is: you are looking at the capapbility of Indians (it is unfortunate that this term is synonymous with Hindus for you ..is Farzana a Hindu?).
However, mathematics, statistics and to some extent physics require little infrastructure. Indians have done fairly well in these.

The Leveling of America #189 by SaimaShah

....Taking quotes out of context and trying to get into a slinging match ....``

Saima, you are right one has to look at the overall picture and message rather than concentrate on some specific comment. But, on the same token, don`t you think you are also guilty of not getting the ``overall`` message Friedman is giving? Are n`t you also wrong in taking his ``examples`` out of context to claim his views are slanted? As far as I know (I have not read his book, but have heard several interviews and read his columns in NYT) his view is that life is comparatively bad for a muslim not because he is a muslim, but becasue what kind of oppotunities he has and/or what kind of set-up he lives in. He keeps driving this point constantly. His examples are: In countries like India, a muslim is more liberated (from orthodox influence) and uses his opportunities better (even being a minority) than in a typically Muslim country. So he gives examples like Premji (success) and Shabana Azmi (freedom). Don`t you think these are only examples he quotes for his ``overall`` message: Muslims can do just as good as anybody else provided he has such chances. Why do you think he is deliberately mentioning India...I don`t think he is. I feel he is just using this as an example. Also, how many places there are in the world where there are muslims and there is democracy?

...``Muslims are doing quite well in Pakistan unlike Friedman`s claim that Muslims in Pakistan have no opportunity....``
First of all, he never says ``no opportunity`` ..he says ``less opportunities``. as for Muslims doing well in Pakistan, may be you are right, you know it better since you live there. But, the world unfortunately has not heard this as clearly. The world does not follow only Friedman (a great majority of eduacted people do not even know who this guy is). There are thousands of other reporters. How come these success stories are not reported anywhere?
Overall, I find Friedman to be very thorough and unbiased. You may disagree with that.

The Trial of a Nation
.....
India had its own Nuclear Scientist, who was also the creator of Missiles. India made this man, the son of a poor fisherman, a Muslim to boot, her President. .....

This has been clarified many times in other threads. But, still people put this ``imprecise`` information. The present president of India..Kalam...was instrumental in the development of missile program. However, nuclear technology in India was developed way before his times. (A gunnawala was heading the research!). In 1974 (?) when India detonated its fisrt bomb, Kalam was not at all in the picture ...probably still starting out. Plus, he was more successful at being a technocrat rather than a great ``scientist`` doing basic research. Check on Google how many research publications he has. Certainly this is not to undermine his brilliance at doing what he has done for the Indian Defence Dept.

YLH

After having preached so many people in recent times, you should at least say you were sorry & wrong in ``side-tracking`` the discussion by putting something that had absolutely nothing to do with the subject on hand. As early as the second interact! Or, is there a relevance between Seema Kermani`s unfortunate dispatch and Dr. Khan`s trial. I did not see it, however, I stand corrected if so...

Bomb Blasts in Delhi #396 by Kulharee, Circumcision

Some facts and my opinion:

In some cases, especially in Japanese kids, it becomes necessary to do this on neonates to avoid uti (urinary tract infections) and other problems. But, otherwise, overall data does not appear to be in favor of having circumcision. Yes, it may reduce the risk of penile cancer, but it is true for any organ. It does not mean that we should get rid of all the organs that have potential to develop cancer. This is an extremely rare form of cancer and happens to old people. People thought prepuce was unnecessary …like appendix and tonsils …so thought it was an easy remedy. But, not so with this piece of tissue. It has many functions such as sensory , sex and, mainly protection: all exposed pores in the body are covered in some way to keep pathogens and other dirt getting in and causing inflammation. It may be hair, skin or some valve like function that keeps it closed. However, humans and animals are expected to keep those clean. Evolution has kept the species that follow these rules and others sooner or later become extinct. I firmly believe that nature has selected right things and will keep selecting based on changing environment. These quick fixes, most of the time …not always .. are unnecessary and may not be advantageous, expect in certain special cases.
P.S. I am not a physician …just a biochemist/molecular biologist who has more than average distrust in modern doctors.

Bomb Blasts in Delhi #364 by Salim_Chauhan

Thanks for the explanations. But, you missed the main word ..takhallus. Is it from the word tallukat ..or something like that... which means realtionship. People use it in situations like saying: what has that got to do with the subject on discussion. (Actually, this question is relevant to chowk discussions much too often).
Thanks for giving other meanings. Funny ...khare (true) in my language can mean khota in some other language. Living on border of several languages, I have seen many battles and even wars because one did not understand nuances of dialects/languages of the other.

BTW, I worked with real bugs for a long time, although I am not an entomologist (not an entymologist either) ... bad caterpillars... gypsy moths, if you have heard of them. But, my present focus of research is on smaller bugs like fungi and bacteria.

Bomb Blasts in Delhi #360 by Salim_Chauhan

....I need to ask for the proper way to pronounce your takhallus. ...

Salim, you will need to explain quite a few words from your message. What is Takhallus? What is equivalent of ``anyway``, take care (you mean Khair?). Others I did not get at all.

I gave an idea somewhere that I am from South India. However, come from a place where Dakhani Urdu is spoken..somewaht like Hyderabadi.. But, still some of the north Hindustani/Urdu words go over my head.
Well, in my language (colloquial dialect), khare means ``true``. It rhymes with the expression ``Arrey``... like in.. arre yaar, kahan ja rahe ho..

Bomb Blasts in Delhi #323 by Kulharee

.....Islam is a gender-blind and race-blind religion. .....

Wow... I am learning new things. What are those suras that say regarding males ..we have made one better than other...a man can marry 4 wives, but not the reverse ... you can enter any time and whichever way you want to, she is like a field .. she should be willing and ready to satisfy at any time ... and numerous others that clearly differentiate between males and females. These are right in Quran and not hadiths or sunnah. How can these be justified if one has to proclaim that Islam is gender-blind?

As for race, the Quran states clearly that the difference between a muslim and a non muslim is as great as heaven and earth. If it is Hindu in question, then it is heaven and dingeon, hell. Apart from the religion, it may be true, although I do not see it practiced in real life ...at least in south India. They are like any desi...color of the skin, economic status, family origin, what work one does for living (i.e., shudra equivalant for Hindus) are all very important in developing interactions such as marriage.

Bomb Blasts in Delhi #298 by Kulharee

Is that true?...that it is only OPTIONAL in Islam? And also, that the process does not cut off any skin? As I have read, it says that Abrahm had to offer a piece of flesh from own body as a proof of covenent. If nothing is removed, it does not count. But, the question still remains ... why this part of the body? Should we assume Abrahm was very smart in suggesting an unwanted part of the body and kind of fooled god?

If you ask me ...our ancestors were wise. They followed science even in those days. Their analysis in those days showed prepuce was unnecessary and could cause problems ...especially of you do not clean regularly, casues build-up followed by mild infections which cause inflammation adn eventually MAY lead to cancer in some cases ...understandable that in those days they probably did not clean often and well. And, as usual, some stupid humans included it as part of religion and invented story of Abrahm, covenent and god and all that nonsense.

.....For Desis with small peepees, it should be optional. Every little bit counts....

It really does not add anything. During erections it is automatically pulled back ....in almost all cases according to medical science... Probably you are not aware of this since you have lived only in ``circumcized world``

But, seriously, could you quote where it says this ritual is ``optional`` for muslims?

Bomb Blasts in Delhi About circumcision

Just my 2 cents ... someone may correct this:
It is true that few decades back it was thought prepuce (front part of the penis) was unnecessary and CAN be responsible for prepucial cancer. So, medical practice recommended circumcision. Most Americans of last generation (including baby boomers) were circumcised irrespective of religion. However, just like the story of tonsils, now the theory is reversed and it is believed that prepuce is not responsible for cancer. So recommendation: up to you ...if you want for religious reasons, do it. Otherwise you need not.
God was not that stupid to give it in the first place if it was not needed. For a biological scientist like me, this part would have been eliminated from the animal kingdom if it was totally unncessary. Evolution works that way.

But, what baffles me is that Abraham offered this piece of anatomy to GOD! Could not he find something else? If you really wanted to show your dedication and respect, give one of your fingers (pinky from left palm?) or a small toe. I find it really insulting to Allah saying.. take this and be happy, I have done my duty. Don`t we use this saying as an insult?

Bye Bye NAM, Hello Realpolitik! Hamidm2
``....but you have to be a really sick person to find humor in human misery ..........``

Probably you mistakenly ``assumed`` that I was referring to humor IN the human misery. I meant ``while discussing``...meaning you do not want any humor about anything else ``DURING THIS TIME OF MISERY``. In general, your mood is off. I can understand that. Hope that clarifies...

Bye Bye NAM, Hello Realpolitik! Hamidm2#138

......... i think you too need to find some other way to cope....instead of spewing bile on this site ........try sex, you might like it ....... and if you can`t do that, i suggest you change your diet and exercise regularly ........

Agreed. But, Farzana keeps spewing much worse shitty poison on this site ...just hatred and one sided...how come you consider her to be a ``good writer on the chowk``...you said something like that in an earlier thread .. But, again, it may be her diet.. 80Rs cup tea and other things people mention. And as for her sex life ... no comments. All I know is she shows her frustration with India and everything asscoiated with it ...always imagining/hypothesizing things and stretching everything to her way of thinking.

I read chowk just to read your comments Hamid..and I really admire you and your humor....however, lately you seem to be affected by something...looks like you do not appreciate humor while disussing earthquake disaster and the sufferings ...therfore short on temper?..just my thought..

The Argumentative Amartya? Godot #49

.....I think you are correct about Farzana’s issue with the possibility of cruelty of the majority towards the minorities in a “majority rule” scenario.....

You are right. Look at A L L Muslim nations in the world. However, there is not much minority left in there so you can test these situations. And almost all of them without democracy...

Does it surprise you why it does not happen in other parts of the world where minorities can live fine. I am a moinority in the US and was a minority in India. Never faced anything out of ordinary. Do you think these thoughts (oppression by majority in non muslim regions ONLY) are typically Islam-related?