Kibbutz Criminals 99 . FV
``.. It is not cultural affinity. The West needs an Other ...........``

Finally in the end comes it comes out, the common communist/left wing harangue `Other`

This is the way they demonize their opponenets that the opponents define and hate `the Other`.
Read any of these people their main methodology is to accuse their opposition is busy in `defning, demonizing the Other`

One fact is its Muhammad who started `muslims and Others`. Its his teachings that Muslims will enjoy heaven and the Others wil go to hell.

So whats the problem baby when these Others before going to eternal hell have some fun on this earth.
This `damsel in distress` always sees the world as `muslims and Others` , or `leftists and Others`, and then to `me and Others` and then cringes, shouts ,screams when the `poor, dirty, idolator Others` and also the `other Others` get a leg-up here and there.

Rethinking Foreign Policy -- Can Pakistan and India Agree? #295 by Mantolives
`` ... Anyway this is an endless discussion with no end to it... except more self congratulatory BS that Indian chowkies (And thats the only subset I refer to when I say ``you Indians``) are so immensely capabale of. ...``

Yes its an endless discussion and will not help the dead.
But the way you selectivley use references, quotes (sharmilla bose, or one-man commission ) is really amazing.

The point is if you don`t care for million of your own ex-countryman then why bother about 700+ (thats the official figure and you should stick to it as you use one-man commision to prove your point).

And whats self congratulatory about people getting killed. Its you are being congratulatory who thinks you are championing human rights by quoting 2000 Gujrat, .... but at the same time first forgetting and then justifying the millions killed.

Rethinking Foreign Policy -- Can Pakistan and India Agree? #291 by Mantolives
I can quote you tens of similar balanced articles on gujrat or anywhere and infact the same logic used by S Bose can be used to justify gujrat/iraq anything.

Just read the conclusion para and replace the dates and places and everything is justfiable.


And as you said ``.. indians are too clever by half ...`` so why use Sharmilla Bose.
She is definitly indian, so may be all that writing should be judged by this yardstick


and its pakistani clevernes to add the muslim/ahmadi/ etc column in yr passport. Even if you are not happy with it you have to live with this. so enjoy !!!

Rethinking Foreign Policy -- Can Pakistan and India Agree? #286 by Mantolives

manto 2000+ is bad but I think million = 500 * 2000

and all those people in Bangladesh er East pakistan were as human and muslim as you or the 2000+ people were.

and to think that more around 1 lac bihari mulsims are still waiting for chance to come in.

have some semblance of guilt for those millions matching the anguish for these 2000.

I think you have a passport which says YLH Non Muslim.

Rethinking Foreign Policy -- Can Pakistan and India Agree? DM ji

what is the resolution of kashmir problem? give it to pakistan. wow
u are a Real Strategic thinker (as u describe yrself).

If kashmir belongs to pakistan because of having muslims then what abt non kashmiri muslims ?
may be 50 yrs down the line they can again be given their own land and so on and so on.

its so fun to read all yr posts and articles.

Love Ya, Dubya `` ...The voices that speak out may appear to be power-driven, but it is the power of the conscience. An anti-establishment voice does not seek approval or applause. ...``

well all these protests against Bush being power of consience is just plain BS. All these protests are plainly communal (indian muslims shedding tears and shouting for thier ummah) and political (the godless lefties doing thier god given duty of opposing capitalism).

Yes people are hungry, poor, roofless, without medical care , jobs, hopes , ... but why protest against Bush?
He is the president of usa . he has no legal responsibilty to feed or look after the people around the world.

If these people are so full of anger over being deprived, jobless, they should gherao their local mp, mlas, corporator. these people have moral, legal, ethical, and all other responsibilities to look after people in their area.

The elections in bengal , kerla and up are round the corner and the `Godless commies` are using the Muslims `God`s chosen people` , so that they vote for them.

Having failed to provide for people of their state these commies should look inside why they failed rather than win elections because somebody got killed in iraq or afghanistan.
This kind of immoral political thinking of somehow getting votes by raking some emotional issue near elections and forgetting the people is worse than what bush is doing.


and Farzana, Manmohan Singh was born in a poor family and worked hard up for his position. He is far far more educated, honest, intelligent and perhaps decent than you can ever be (I think u won;t ever be because in yr thinking not being all this is yr usp or gift to humanity). You write in english in mostly paki/muslims websites with readership in few thousands and definitley that doesn`t make you a grassroot person.

Husain, Hinduism, Hindustan: Testing Tolerance 272 YLH
``However the issue here is not imagined identity. An Indian Muslim need not adhere to your sense of ``nationalism`` or ``national identity`` to be accepted as an Indian. The theory of citizenship is that a citizen of a state is someone who accepts the writ of the state, pays taxes and is a law abiding naturalised resident- who is eligible for passport etc. Such a citizen might think that India is 2 nations, 3 nations or 10 nations... ordinarily he is considered a citizen...
``

So Smart Dude, whats law? how do you arrive at the state`s constituion?

Almost all muslims think that any law not based on sharia violates their lives and belive `koran has all laws which have to be literally followed`` etc etc

so in this case how can one make a One Just Constitution. Please enlighten us all

should 4 marraiges be banned or not? and all other questions. like alimony should be paid or not ??
and yes should cartoons be publishhed or not?

Husain, Hinduism, Hindustan: Testing Tolerance #60 by dost-mittar on February 17, 2006 8:13am PT
sadna#57:

Thanks for posting the picture. I really cant see what the fuss is all about. There`s not a hint of insult in that painting, which I kind of like.

Mr DM.
You kind of like the painitng? wow
its ok to say that making riots, burning buildings or killing people for it is wrong.
but to just praise it for the sake of praising it ``to prove yr secular credentials`` shows how 3rd rate yr level of thinking is.

Just like a minority need got get an approval from majority for proving it to be patriot or whatever, similar a majority also need not have to prove its ``secular credentials`` every now and then.

You are kind of very fond or FV and always want to protect her , support her and literally in this process post some senile things now and then
but remember if she has no 2 good words for Gandhi (Mohan Das karam Chand) then you are just nobody.

I know the day she trashes you , u will quote Voltaire `` I .. disagree ... but defend ..``

Samosey mein aloo: why not Laloo? DM or any other `cadillac communist`,

I`snt yr philosophy something like, ``He may be a bastard, but at least he`s our bastard.`` And still you people write on and on as if you are better than other`s.

W(h)ither BJP? Mr DM:

So you say indian muslims have a `distinct identity` and it has to be protected. well lets agree to it for a moment.

When you last time came to india , how many identities you saw here? every state , city has its own identity. So like indian muslims these people have a right to preserve their identity.

Like say mumbai had a disntict identity, culture, language from bihar/up. But overtime this idetity of mumbai is getting increasingly diluted because of influx.

Now if some people (say Shiv Sena) want to protect it, you calll them #$% $%^** . Why?

you moron, identity is not something which can be casted in stone. It has to change with time, reflecting the changed circumstances when the old identity was formed else the people carrying that identity will decay and become a fossil.

India was identified as a land of beggars and snake charmers. Now its a land of outsourcing. Is this change in identity bad? should we just stick to that one?


The group of people being called indian muslim had some disticnt identity before they embraced islam or islam was forced on them. If they changed their identiy at that time why can`t they change it now or again in future.

want do you want ? they just mouth Urdu and carry a paandaan? If hindus can leave behind , sanskrit or the christians can leave their latin and carry on with english / hindi/french/ tamil or other languages then why can`t urdu arabic be left out from day to day life?


what kind of social scientist are you? have you heard the name evolution? change? adaptation?

Get off her back… 297 FV writes
Re. 16. “Seems Farzana thinks that Arundhaty is `The One` with the divine right/knowledge to preach others and get on every body`s back, mind, conscious and all.”

No. I am incapable of hagiography. I have already explained wrt Amulya Ganguli the context of getting off her back…ditto the Narmada Andolan. Of course, people must counter her – when they can. Rather silly that this has to be stated. Insecure?

---

Insecure ? who me or you
there is a news papaer Asian Age (definitley not among top newspapers in terms of readership in india)
there is a columnist there Amulya Ganguli
He writes a critical piece on another author Arundhati Roy

and you get offended by it (or may be felt insucre ...) and wrote a long article here defending Roy. And now you are brazen enough to call me names`` ... Rather silly ....... Insecure?

If you just wanted to rebut Amulya Gnaguli , you should have called him up and settled the matter amongst yourselves or let Roy defend herself. But you wrote the article here perhaps because this is sort of your own turf with lots of admirers like dost-mittar etc. It reminds me of the saying ``apni gali mein .... bhi sher``

if you really care about people poor, operessed, women, marginalised or otherwise than ``walk the talk``. Spend yr money and time and career for thier well being. Wrirting articles ,making AVs dosen`t help anybody except you.

Stand in elections , write the Civil Servces exam , take up an office , take responsibility . Or become a doctor or some `Grameen Banker` like that guy in bangladesh and then when you have done yr bit then come back to me or all people here.

Then I will not laugh on being called Insecure, Silly , stupid or whatever but take it seriously and try to emulate you.

and btw the image on chowk icon still has the map of pakistan.

Get off her back… Get off her back ....?


Why? She herself is trying to get on everybody`s back. From Bombay to Brazil and from Kerla to Kashmir to Australia, she is goes everywhere and preaches, screeches and writes those long articles now and then.

Seems Farzana thinks that Arundhaty is `The One` with the divine right/knowledge to preach others and get on every body`s back, mind, conscious and all.

Are all others morons , without any brains or right to even try to counter her.

Sometimes arundhati even doesn`t know what she blurts. Somewhere (may be at WSF Mumbai) she asked to boycott two MNCs. I think Arundhati should start herself and boycott one of the following compnaies Boeing, GE or Microsoft.

Its sheer moral bankruptcy or duplicty to travel around in Boeng aeroplanes, and using a Microsoft powered PC , running on a GE power generator to write against american captialism.

She is not `useful idiot` but she is `smart idiot`, uses all the good things coming out of america/west and then exhorts others to throw stones on a mac-donald, kfc or a coke .

Next time Ms Roy or Ms Versey gets ill I am sure they won;t go to an unani hakim , but to an hospital mostly using american diagnostic equipments and dispensing out Pfizer/Merck drugs.

I will get off her back, but for that she has to first get off my back.

See RSS, Think Al Queda! #11
So `life is a zero sum game` and `enemy of my enemy is my friend`
Caste Hindus and Dalits are enemies
Muslims and Hindu`s are enemies
so Muslims and Dalits are friends, bosom friends.

Wow!!

I will say think twice before you wish anything, it might come true.

In 1971 US befriended China to undermine Russia and now its running for allies to undermine Russia. Today you are propping muslims and tomorrow when they get power the first choice you would be given is break all idols of Ambedkar and read the kalma or else ....

The grieveances of dalits are pretty genuine, but you appear to say that there is a cetian gene in Caste Hindus which turns them into monsters, so the solution is kill them all or sort of similar.
This perhaps gives the caste hindus equal right to say there is a gene in Dalits thet makes them less competent etc.

Look back into history, there was no egalitarian, good for all socities. Whoever got a chance to rule. And the relation between ruled and ruler is not good and usually ruthless.

I am pretty sure if you are given the chance of becoming a dictatorial ruler of india, you won;t be a fair and benevolent one. Your rule will rest on certain group of people and you will favor them more (maybe just to survive) and in a generation or two its back to square one. Rule of few over large.

Saudi Government to Demolish Prophet Muhammed’s home Dressed up and nowhere to go

I think this has happened to the muslim faithfuls of India a second time
First in 1920s a huge ruckus was created as the British/French took up the territory from Turky/Caliph. Then came around Attaturk Kamal and he himself abolished the calipahte.

Now currently the muslims in India are always in mental agony and what not since babri was destroyed. The calcutta airport has troubles expanding because of a dargah coming in way. Since 1992 they are electing crooks like Lalu/Mulayam because they won`t allow any masjid to be bulldozed. In the process muslims get corrupt administration, no development and lawless ness .An entire generation is wasted away trying ti take revenge for Babri

In both cases they made a fool of themselves by trying to be more loyal than the king. The earlier this `inferiority complex` of being a muslim but not being a pure blood arab goes the better it is. Be a confident muslim and confident indian/pakistani also but don`t try to trace yr roots from arab.

South Asia’s Clarence Darrow #69 YLH/ Mantolives

``Darrow defended everyone as it was their right to have a fair trial... after in the greatest case of his life, Jinnah fought for the Muslims- we know what a fine bunch they are don`t we ? ..``

I have read a lot of yr posts with a single line of reasoning. Jinnah and only Jinnah got pakistan.

Its true but not fully.

Jinnah got pakistan becuase british were leaving. Jinnah was not the cause of british leaving.

Perhaps the two important reasosn for british leaving was the WWII and National Movement.

The national Movement made ruling and keeping India under control difficult . And the loss and weariness of WWII made the british to think of cut and run.

If neither of these things had not happened esp the WWII then british most probably won`t have left in 1947. The british built perhaps the last of Imperial buildings in delhi in 1921.

To think that they would leave all these because Jinnah made good arguments and was a brilliant lawyer is plain day dreaming and hero worshipping.

Jinnah was a big lawyer, smart, articulate and everything but to say that british left and gave him pakistan only because of his arguments is pure childish. if that was the case they would have first given pakistan and later freed remaining portion ie India.

To say Jinnah forced pakistan is putting cart before the horse. If Jinnah was so good and confident he would not left India and politics in 1930s and started practice again. I can bet Jinnah would have argued cases, put brief after brief to the end of his life but wouldn`t have got pakistan.

He was the right man at the right moment.The british were leaving and Jinnah got his share in the loot. And he got this by ways that included the Direct Action Day. A bloody way indeed.

If arguments and skilled lawyers can make an Imperial power leave then Iraqi`s are stupid. They should hire a battery of hotshot laywers and get their country back rather than spilling blood.

How green is their valley? FV #224
``... Chowk staff:

I am glad you are now taking a pro-active role. I would also like you to clarify that you are not a Pakistani site not because it is a matter of nationalism, but this is about South Asia…those who wish to live on islands will do so anyway.

Thank you…``

A couple of points
The sketch used to describe Chowk (Chowk Illustrations) at the top-right , shows a chowk, ie intersection of roads. And whats at the intersection, a glass bulb with map of Pakistan. I request the Chowk staff to replace this map of pakistan with map of South Asia so that its clear that its not about pakistan alone.

And regarding taking snipes about people who wish to live in islands, whats wrong with people living in islands?
The way you say bombay is yr city and have concern for it first before anything else (writing all that poem etc) shows that you are also living on an island.

What happened to bombay this year happens every year at some place or other across the globe, but I don`t see you breaking into a stenchful poem for them.

I will be eagerly waiting for the chowk staff to change the logo. Don`t say what`s in a picture?