In the Name of Allah, the Most Merciful #526 Posted by hamidm2 on April 24, 2008 6:36:10 am
{"justification for honor killing - they are worse than us !

LUCKNOW, India, April 24 (AFP): An “untouchable” woman who gave birth outside an Indian hospital because doctors would not treat her died Thursday, a day after her baby, officials admitted. The newborn boy of Maya Devi, 28, died Wednesday due to lack of medical help minutes after being born outside the maternity wing of Kanpur Medical College in northern Uttar Pradesh state. Devi was only put in intensive care after giving birth but died of a heart attack early Thursday. Several doctors, including the hospital's chief medical superintendent, refused to touch her or provide medical care as she delivered her baby, the Press Trust of India reported. Devi was a Dalit, or “untouchable”, a group at the bottom of the caste social ladder long ostracised and forced into menial professions despite laws banning discrimination. Many high-class Hindus fear coming into contact with them."}

Hamidumdum Sahib,
This murder can be justified as an "HONOR" killing. You see, the upper caste Hindus of India will lose their honor if they touch an untouchable. What part of untouchable do you not understand?

Also, don't all doctors, including Hindu ones, take the hypocritical oath?

In the Name of Allah, the Most Merciful #527 Posted by dost_mittar on April 24, 2008 6:43:03 am
{"Honour killings have nothing to do with islam; it's a cultural practice practised sometimes by non-muslim Indians as well, when some girl marries someone from a low caste boy in rural India. The difference is only how the state looks at it, the attitude of the people is not very different.

Islam only enters picture when a muslim girl wants to marry a non-muslim boy."}

DM Sahib,
Leave it to yourself to defog the atmosphere with truth and logic. Yes, "honor" killing is really cowardly murder and has no basis in Islam. It needs to be religiously eliminated.

As for a Muslim girl marrying a non-Muslim boy, Islam has considered a solution for this issue too. The boy can always convert to Islam and fulfill his desire to marry the girl. Unfortunately, the Dalit boy could NEVER legally and in a socially-acceptable manner marry the Brahmin or Kshatriya girl, could he?

In the Name of Allah, the Most Merciful Hamidumdum2 Sahib #392 {"and if we don't stop this muslim bashing then what? .... are we going to keep on treating women worse than pigs and mirzaees? ....
.... but we have to be careful that we don't let this women rights thing get out of hand - we definitely don't want them driving, voting, demanding orgasms and wearing pants like infidel women ......."}

Hamidumdum2 Sahib,
You seem to be saying that "the beatings will continue until morale improves!" Sir, the very objective of the Islam-hating, Muslim-bashing hate-mongrels is to divert the attention of Muslims from solving their real problems. This is why every so often we have these silly cartoons, mediocre yet offensive books, and a few insidious movies. Of course, the real bombings, invasions, wars on this and wars on that, and UN sanctions don't hurt either.

The unfortunate thing is that while the poor Muslims are fighting their enemas, there are enough gora unwashed bum lickers among our own ranks to make the challenge even more interesting.

You come across as one of those brilliant doctors, trained at great expense by Pakistan, who hightail it to the US to perform their "charitable" work, while gora Medecines Sans Frontieres take the place of the absconding Pakis in Pakistan. It's twice the hypocrisy when these shameless quacks lament about the poor health care in Pakistan.

Yes, Muslim women in Turkey drive, vote, have orgasms, and wear pants that don't drop for every Tom, Dick, and Harry - unlike your version of Muslim women in uppa US.

In the Name of Allah, the Most Merciful #399 Posted by bjkumar on April 23, 2008 4:41:00 pm
Re: # 390

{"Boomer, even by your usual lowly standards of quality, posting that picture of the poor mouse being devoured by the snake was pretty low."}

Coomar,
You have a point there. Depicting Bag One having dinner is tantamount to blasphemy. Echo Bhai should apologize to all Hingboos.

In the Name of Allah, the Most Merciful #405 Posted by peonofthewest on April 23, 2008 6:48:50 pm
Re: # 404
{"the only thing worse than a Baangladaisi is a muttarwa saab"}

...and the worst and wettest of the three is a miryaasi Mirzaee pretending to be a pee on.

In the Name of Allah, the Most Merciful Hamidumdum2 Sabhi # 442 {" ...when i say anything against a bedouin whose own mother wouldn't raise him ....."}

Hamidumdum2 Sahib,
Aren't you grateful to Allah for the sweet, wonderful, and Muslim woman who had the courage and compassion to raise you? You should have much more compassion for orphans.

In the Name of Allah, the Most Merciful Hamidumdum2 Sahib #444 {" anyway, even though i agree that women are abused and mistreated all over the world, honor killing is primarily a islamic world phenomenon ..... and it is not restricted to pakistan - it is even common just outside istambul where the few civilized muslims reside (one of them is salim) ........"}

Hamidumdum Sahib,
Honor killing is about as common and as illegal outside Istanbul as polygamy, child abuse, and cannibalism are common and illegal in the uppa US where you reside as a monogamist, parent, and a Prohibitionist vegetarian.

In the Name of Allah, the Most Merciful #432 Posted by bjkumar on April 24, 2008 1:56:25 am

{"And Zeemax, in fairness to Nikhat, no matter what I think of her antediluvian views on the hizab, there is little doubt that she has more balls than you will ever have."}

Coomar,
...and the two of them together have at least two more than you.

In the Name of Allah, the Most Merciful BJ COOMAR {"...Zeemax, go don your hizab - then go screw yourself!"}

Coomar,
I could replace the words "Zeemax" with "Coomar" and "hijab" with "dhoti," and make your post into a boomerang. But then, putting on a dhoti would be an improvement in your case.

In the Name of Allah, the Most Merciful #378 NangaPir {"Bhuddists consider touching a woman as sin. Pope and his associates do not marry as woman makes them filthy. One sect in Jews early in the morning thanks God for not creating them as a woman. Communists never made any woman a leader. The only other religion that has high regard for mother is Hinduism. But it is not for women. They burn them. The only religion in the world that guarantees women share in property both at parent side and husband side is Islam. And it is the only religion which gives it honor. If not then Islamabad, Tehran and Riyad would not be different from Bangkok, Bombay, Las Vegas and Oslo.']

Pir Sahib,
I would have called you by your first name, but sharam aati he. :)

Yes, you have listed some very important rituals, practices, and beliefs of those people with glass houses hurling stones at Islamic societies. Once we stop this Islamophobic Muslim-bashing, we can do what's really important. Pass laws and put into action the urgent need to protect women (especially little girls) from the oppression of societies - whether motivated by tribal, political, economic, or religious perversions. Thank you for your excellent post.

In the Name of Allah, the Most Merciful Tahmed32 #340 {"I agree though that women are mistreated in both societies. its just that hindu society is hardly an example for muslims to look at. and the only reason i got into this discussion is your hindu chauvinists who come to chowk pretending acting holier-than-god and using this as a pretext to vilify other people's culture and religion"}

Tahmed Sahib,
Definitely a clear, honest, and well phrased post from you. I agree wholeheartedly.

In the Name of Allah, the Most Merciful Dear Ms. Rashid,
Your unfortunate choice of a title and epilogue for your well-intentioned and extremely important subject reminded me of a humorous anecdote.

One slow evening this nice young man was drowning his sorrow in his late night drink at a bar. The bartender, having very little else to do, asked him why he was so sad. "I am a song writer and I think I write very good songs, but nobody buys them" he said. "Well, can you sing one of your songs for me - I have some time to kill?" asked the bartender. The young man proceeded to sing a beautiful romantic ballad and the bartender was overtaken with expressions of gratification and applause. "That was simply outstanding, I would certainly buy this song, what do you call it?" asked the bartender. The young man replied "I call it - I LOVE YOU SO MUCH THAT I COULD SHIT."

In the Name of Allah, the Most Merciful Anil #230 {"I for one would like to hear your, Zeemax and HP Sahibs views on such brutal killing. I do not want to dignify it with honor. There can never be an honor in killing. It is improper to dismiss it as tribal, when something like this has been reported in Jordan, Egypt, and yes even in Turkey, until Turkey started to reform its laws to join EU."}

Anil Bhai,
It is always a pleasure to discuss serious topics with you. You have this highly appreciated gift for making people think without offending them. Unlike BJ Coomar, CreateAlpha, and others, you are sincerely affected by acts of horrible cruelty and don't use them as a pretext to score points against neighbors and adversaries. I am grateful for this opportunity to interact with you and I truly support your indignation at the words "honor killing."

First of all there is no legal basis or religious, let alone moral, justification for this brutal, cruel, indefensible, and illegal act of murder. Whether we are talking about the reprehensible Mukhtaran Mai type of panchayat justice, ridiculous Tally Ban enforcement of "piety," or the accursed Hudood Ordinances of Zia, the fact remains that these are aberrations of a culture that has tried to pervert an entire religion. They have as much to do with Islam as the Spanish Inquisition, Crusades, and the excesses of the Thirty Year War have to do with the teachings of Jesus Christ.

To the list of abuses against women, let's add the cruel, stupid, and horrible act of female genital mutilation. This practice, sometimes attributed to Islamic ritual, is unheard of in the larger Islamic world stretching from Bosnia, Albania, Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan, the cental Asian "Stans," Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, to Malaysia and Indonesia. Therefore, it would be safe to state that most of these awful practices are not related to religion, but rather to the specific male-dominated and perverted cultures of certain areas. The Sicilian tradition of raping one's reluctant "sweetheart" to cause a favorable response to a marriage proposal was certainly not a cherished teaching of the Catholic Church.

Personally, for me, everything in Islam, except for the belief in One God and His Final Messenger (PBUH), is subject to discussion, interpretation, and reformation. So, the best thing we can do is to disassociate the mantle of religious "blessing" from these horrible residues of ancient cultures. These, at one time, included sacrifice of virgins to preclude floods and burial of female babies to enhance prosperity - something that Indians seem to have modernized into a cornerstone of "family planning." One could also add the stigma of being a widow in India or the encouragement of young Catholic girls to join convents and get "married" to Jesus Christ.

Once we remove religion from this obvious oppression of our fellow human beings, who just happen to be of the female persuasion as a matter of biological accident, we can then reverse the wrong. Challenging the genuine sensibilites of normal, sympathetic, and righteous followers of Islam, or other religions, is the wrong approach to eliminating this evil. Insulting the very firefighters who are in a position to extinguish the flames is, in my opinion, in the "stupid" category - if putting out the fire was one's candid intention.

In the Name of Allah, the Most Merciful BJ Coomar #208 {"But what can one expect from individuals like you – when a boob-grabber is your PM, a khaki seditious general (of the “Canadian visa” fame) is your president and that charlatan called Mahomed Ali Jinnah is your devta!"}

Coomar,
During the four years that I have been reading HP's articles, he has never been convicted of plagiarism. I wish I could say the same about you.

Now, instead of wasting your time heaping boring insults upon living and dead Paki politicians, perhaps you should be concentrating on solving the numerous problems afflicting yonis back home - you know the land where the sexually harassing Gopi Groper is worshipped as a deity.

In the Name of Allah, the Most Merciful #203 Posted by HP on April 22, 2008 10:43:13 am
{"Azra Rashid,
Provocative headlines are good to get some attention but when you are writing about serious issues, you must not fall for the cheap thrills. You ruined the topic with a silly title and now the initial reaction is driving the discussion."}

HP,
You have beautifully and eloquently explained to Ms. Rashid how she has actually harmed not helped the cause of these women and the men who want to eradicate this curse of "honor" killings.

Some people protest for noble causes by shouting profanities and taking their clothes off in public. I wonder how effective they are in helping the worthy causes for which they make asses out of themselves?

In the Name of Allah, the Most Merciful BJ Coomar #202 {"I will tell you why...
...because Salim Chauhan, YOU can not get it "up", either!
Your "pen", that is!"}

Coomar,
I write when I can and certainly don't need your petition as a catalyst. Meanwhile, other than trading profane insults with Pakistanis is there anything else that you and your type are adept at? BTW, your lame and foolish attempt at humor is noted and discarded.