We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! Cyclone,
The funding of the extremists (some of whom became terrorists) was the work of Soodi Arabia and the CIA - facilitated by the dictator Zia Ul Haque and his clique. To this day the etremists in Madrassas are funded by Soodi "Zakat" money and "Zakat" is something that Zia instituted at all financial centers of Pakistan - it's a good thing that all the number of "Shia" exemptions exceeded the population of Pakistan.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! {"based on your recent interacts that would rule you out. "}

I have heard of nags and I have heard of hags, but I had yet to meet a hag who was a constant nag. Please restrain yourself before I comment about your behavior any further.

The Marriott Bombing: ‘Pakistan’s 9/11’? Khyber #68 {"I support Islam of MOHAMMAD(PBUH)NOT the islam of saudi arabia or zia,I do supprot Z A BHUTTO,who broguht political sense to comman man on street,who brought 90000 those soldeirswho surrendered to India,who made Pak nuclear power,who was interested to educate people.What Zia and cronies did to Pakistan,result you can see.
Mwaqar "}

Waqar Bhai,
Very good poins - may the bad rooh of Zia never cast its shadow over Pakistan again.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! Ijaz gul #90,
For some reason, I think that incompetence is the most serious sin committed by the Pak military. Their Cowardice since '71 debacle comes as a close second.

Every single rascal who was a POW after the loss of East Pakistan should have been forced to lick the streets of Pakistan clean. No place for loud cowards - then they have the audacity to launch a coup just 6 years later. Ghar men Sher bahar sab saaley geedaR.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! Pinku #95 {"Enjoy your pursuit of wisdom and so called peace."}

I thank you for your pleasant wishes and peaceful attitude. My Hindu blood is vindicated by your brotherly consideration of my future. Thanks.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! cliftonbridge #96 {"And ofcourse anyone who calls you out on your silliness is an indian and a hindu (your personal extremism has something to do with your choice of "insults" ...so now i should blame mush /zia for that because it isnt your fault ofcourse)"}

Cliftonbridge,
I am sorry that you have degraded this interaction to the level that sustains you on Unplugged. Your knowledge of history is shallow and your bias is very dependent on your personal Chowk UP alliances, so please allow those with a real interest in this topic to discuss as adults. Thank you.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! Cliftonbridge #96,
Please try to be specific rather than make wide sweeping statements that somehow defy chronology.

The "Ahmedi" issue predated Pakistan, as did the Sepoy Mutiny, the Black Hole of Calcutta, and the Roundtable Conference.

If you think that Pakistan was facing similar religious extremism as installed by Zia and his successors, you are deluding yourself. Khuda Hafiz did not become Allah Hafiz because of Bhutto. The thoroughly Soodi and Wahabi character of Islam in Pakistan was not the result of anything but Zia's passion for Arabization. He even sided with Iraq against Iran during their war. Zia turned the Pak military into an enforcement arm of his Nizam-e-Mustafa, which by the way was also forced on the country during a military dictatorship.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! quin #85,
Your post was so genuine and so clear that I did not have to copy and paste a reference to provide proper context. I agree almost completely with your sentiment. Yes, the constituion needs to be respected to the letter. Yes, democracy needs to be strengthened even at the cost of suffering an incompetent but elected fool. Yes, military dictatorship MUST be ruled out of the question, completely - despite the need for short term remedy.

Where I depart from your sentiments is that the Army is not like a random robber with a gun. It is an institution that we created for our own defense. If we use it to govern our lives, then shame on us. If it usurps power to rule over us then shame on it and us for allowing it to happen. Right now would be a good time to pursue some long overdue reforms - hence my article.

The other point is that I am not so pessimistic as you appear to be, sir. There is no need to cry over spilt milk, things are looking up despite the bombing in Islamabad. We did, peacefully, remove a nine-year old entrenched dictatorship - bloodlessly in response to his own bloodless coup - but a very bloody reign. PEACE

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! #84 Posted by pinku on September 24, 2008 11:52:47 am

{"Salim,
Before you pretend to be honest in Islamic style, understand the difference of degree. One kiiling is not same as 100 killings and one mistake is not same as doing things wrong repeatedly.
... You first check your internal mechanism of understanding truths once and then we will continue."}

Dear Pinku,
I would rather discuss how little clothing was worne by Hindu women until Islam with its burkafying menace showed up. I think that you and I have common ground here and I am anxious to put my multilingual skills to better use.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! rf786 #80 {"Thank you Sir, now I will go and watch that moron Henry Paulson con the American tax payer by another 700BN dollars, only in America. "}

Dear Radio Frequency Bismillah Bhai,
The debt on us taxpayers is getting so bad that so many Indian green card holders and H1 guys are refusing to consider American citizenship. What's 10 trillion divided by 300 million?

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! Pinku #82 {"Once you are done helping Pakistan, help country like Sudan and the people there.. more rapes and more fights are being done

Women in India used to wear very little clothes before Islam arrived "}

Pinku,
Finally we agree on two things - at least.
Yes, what is happening in Sudan is a war crime, genocide, and cruelty at its worst.
Yes, I blame Islam for covering up Hindu women. Why can't these stupid Arabs mind their own business?
Thanks to Bollywood, happy days are here again. :)

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! Pinku #77 {"Arabs are not content with 500 million slaves in Pakistan. Indian and Bangladesh, they need more, because they have 2 billion christians (their traditional rivals) whom they are not able to handle. Plus because of their idiotic Islamic culture their slaves are much less capable then the slaves of Christianity (though 70% of those Christians are no more slaves of Christianity). Some in Arabs say Bahrain or UAE are less slave of Islam than south asian muslims. Overall, they cherish this slavery of south asian muslims, feel happy about it and invest billions to keep it that way but they have bigger problems at hand. Nobody worries about their slaves that much till they revolt. You are not revolting yet??"]

Pinku,
You know that I am a very generous multilingual person and quite easy to get along with. But your post, despite my attempts at using several languages and their composites, was totally incomprehensible. Can you please post in your native language. I am sure that I will get your point.

I don't know where you are getting your slavery issue and I also don't understand your point about percentages - 70% you mentioned. Fortunately, I have prior experience with Indians using percentages and the next thing you know, the market melted and the bailout happened and everyone in NYC got pink slips.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! #64 Posted by rf786 on September 24, 2008 11:01:50 am
{"Salim Sahib

We have been killing each other well before the chowkidar started to clean his house, have you forgotten the sectarian killings of the last twenty years.

... what I cannot understand or justify is the suicide killings of innocent civilians in the name of revenge. If one was to take your rationalization then history is replete with hundreds and thousands of these tragedies but none resorted to killing of innocent civilians through suicide bombings.

Taking your argument then the Kharajees acted well within their right to go and kill those who differed in their religious beliefs for it was the state that created them. ..."}

Dear Radio Frequency Bismillah Bhai,
You know better than that. Of course, I am with you when you are talking against jihadi suicide bombers, Kharijites, Modi, BJP/RSS/VHP/BD/JS/SP/SS goons, JI/LeM, JeM, LeT, LTTE, and Pakistani renegades. There is no justification for causing mass murder, destruction, riots, rapes, slaughter, arson, and all other things that animals, disguised as humans, do for their own sadistic and murderous pleasure.

No, I was not providing a pretext for any violence, any terrorism, or any oppression of the many by the desperate few.

Let me also clarify that when I talk about an economic and prosperous Pakistan being a MAGNET for Kashmiris, I mean that in a peaceful and positive manner. I do not subscribe nor support the use of terrorism, jihadi suicide bombers, or even the Pak military to resolve the Kashmir dispute. That has to come from Kashmiris using their God-given right of self-determination.

I apologize for any misunderstanding.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! Cliftonbridge #73 {"religious extremism, almost nonexistent until 1970s" wow thats some re-wrie of history! look i happen to be the progeny of the invaders but this is ridiculous ..... what do you call destruction of temples and forced conversions? "}

Cliftonbridge,
I thank you, the extinguished gentle lady from India, for expressing your anti-Muslim and anti-Pakistani views so forcefully. Modi would have been proud of you.

Now, that you obligate me to respond to you as if I was replying to an Indian, please allow me to rectify your bias a bit.

Temples were destroyed. Others were built. Sometimes by the same "invader." If the destruction of the Babri Masjid(caught on video tape for your viewing pleasure, Mr. Pinku), is an indication then this disease is not limited to Muslim invaders or their progeny. The conversion of the Grand Mosque of Cordoba in 1236 AD to a cathedral, or the numerous mosques in Athens converted to churches, are testaments to this diversity of religious extremism.

There may have been forced conversion - by Muslims, by Catholics, by Protestants, even by some Hindus. What do you think is going on in Orissa today? By the way, there is no longer any force over you, so please feel free to revert to your Dalit roots.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! Pinku #66 {"The initial conversion of Rajputs (and any other warrior people) to increase forces was done through rape and killing. The conversion through deception/lies/money/jobs came later. Their women were raped and the men were killed to make people understand that this is what the option they have if they don't convert to Islam and join their army."}

Dear Pinku,
That makes my Hindu blood boil. I represent that remark.
My ancestors converted to Islam, by the thousands, because they respected the bravery and honesty of their leader, Maharaja Aurangzeb. Please do not recycle stale old "Sword of Truth" propaganda from the BJP/RSS/VHP/BD/JS/SP/SS. These are the same people who claim that Nehru was a Muslim at heart and Indira was impregnated twice by two different Muslims and that both Sanjay and Rajiv were Muslims. You can lie all you want, but don't go overboard because then when you tell people that your name is Pinku they won't believe you.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! #60 Salim_Chauhan

manufactured by the military in throughout the 60s, 70s, 80s,

should be

manufactured by the military throughout the 60s, 70s, 80s,

We all know that religious extremism, almost nonexistent until 1970s, what injected into the Pakistani psyche

should be:

We all know that religious extremism, almost nonexistent until 1970s, was injected into the Pakistani psyche