The ‘shoey’ Side of Politics #295 Posted by HP:

".... These guys are not going away and I think they will become the lightening rod that will eventually help develop a democratic society in Pakistan. I hope in due course, they will have support from the students and the trade unions....."

And from the unwashed in the rural sector. That will really be a great day.

The ‘shoey’ Side of Politics #294 Posted by tahmed32:

tahmed sahib:

Yes, the MQM indulges in ghoodaism and supports/supported the dictator. This same ghoondaism (burning people etc.) and support for the dictator also keeps the MQM's support base "safe" from the ghoondas of the PPP, JI etc. You cannot selectively condemn one group or the other .... actually, you can, but it is of no use. MQM will dissapear on its own, when the "NEED" to protect its support base dissapears. As long as Punjabi, Sindhi, balochi chauvanism exist and has the potential to be violent ... MQM, will exist and will be violent .... dictator or no dictator.

The ‘shoey’ Side of Politics #294 Posted by tahmed32:

tahmed sahib:

Yes, the MQM indulges in ghoodaism and supports/supported the dictator. This same ghoondaism (burning people etc.) and support for the dictator also keeps the MQM's support base "safe" from the ghoondas of the PPP, JI etc. You cannot selectively condemn one group or the other .... actually, you can, but it is of no use. MQM will dissapear on its own, when the "NEED" to protect its support base dissapears. As long as Punjabi, Sindhi, balochi chauvanism exist and has the potential to be violent ... MQM, will exist and will be violent .... dictator or no dictator.

Benazir’s Legacy Beena,

Was dissapointed with this article. You claim:

(i) the street power which helped induce elections was provided by party workers.

Very few will buy this line. Maybe after 10 years, but not today. The lawyers/students were the prominent protesters. Yes, some party workers might have been present. NS's party could not even mobilize when he came the 1st time. PPP was hardly in any scene.

(ii) You seem to indicate that BB convinced the Gringos to allow her and NS to return.

BB had been running from one capital to the other. Forget convincing, she could not even meet with prominent policy makers. The Gringos had to withdraw obvert support from the dictator because "people" were marching on the streets. BB was the cover/front. She did not convince Washington that they needed to talk to the "jihadis", she even suggested that the Gringos could come in. How much time do you need to "forget"?

(iii) You, like Zardari, are cunningly implying that this new phase of "democracy" is because of BB.

Again, who are you trying to fool? BB's role was small, if any. Yes, she was a glamorous leader and it is sad that she was murdered.

The ‘shoey’ Side of Politics #274 Posted by zeemax

What's that about?

The new CM of Balochistan (Dawn, April 10)

“...Gwadar is a .... mega problem for the Baloch because settlement of outsiders will deprive the natives of their right to sit in this house. The settlement of outsiders will be conditional and they will have no right to vote or contest elections,”

The ‘shoey’ Side of Politics There are two issues I would like to touch upon:

1. dost_mittar talked about the "Delhi Culture", and some (HP, I think) implied that it was because of the influx of bhaiyyas from UP and Bihar. I do not think so. IMO it has more to do with migrants from East Punjab. I may be wrong, but compare Mumbai and Delhi.

2. While blaming MQM is fine and dandy, why refrain from criticizing other chauvanist/funadamentalist groups (with their own lumpen elements). Have they murdered less when they wielded power? The CM of a neighboring state announces that "outsiders" should not vote in that state! Nobody, in chowk (full of democrats and secularoons), has taken that up! With neighbors like that, why shouldn't the MQM behave like a cornered cat? Now please do not give the cause/effect bs ....

The ‘shoey’ Side of Politics Tribes may come,
And Tribes may go,
Our stupidity goes on for-ever.

How to End Politics of Hate and Intolerance Patience. Things will not change fast.

JUDICIAL INDEPENDENCE:

"SHC acquits Zardari in Murtaza murder case."

STRATEGIC PARTNERS:

"Coup-related curbs lifted by US."

FOREIGN POLICY:

"Indian FM due on May 21 for talks with Qureshi: Pakistan-India composite dialogue."

FINALLY:

Why is everything quiet on the Western Front?

How to End Politics of Hate and Intolerance The lawyers/students are the only "undefined" factor in this ball game and hence they are "Dangerous". Do they support the "jihadis", after all the CJ let go a lot of "them"? Are they members of the "elite", we have seen their pictures? They are supported by a diverse set of people like zee and tahmed! The CJ gave up his "chair" and nine year olds walked up to "lathis"! They did not fight back with guns! We do not know their names, nor the names of their leaders! They do not seem to have "leaders" who can be talked to (read bribed)! They seem to be be "different" and outside the hierarchy!!!! God help Pakistan if the unwashed started behaving like them! The Nation will be ruined, the economy will go down the drain, Pakistan will go back a hundred years!

How to End Politics of Hate and Intolerance Everyone needs to be patient. The nature of the state will not change overnight because of democracy. Here is another example (source today's Dawn).

This is regarding the economy. Recall a few days back a big hullabuloo was made about rejecting IMF/WB type policies. But again "budget deficit" is the "culprit", as per this non IMF/WB type finance minister.

" .... the new government will have to take harsh measures over the next 75 days, including increase in oil prices and rationalisation of taxes, to put the economy on the right track."

"The budget expenditure overruns amount to Rs522 billion which the government needs to arrange in the next two and a half months to maintain the level of fiscal deficit at 6 per cent by June 30 against the target of 4 per cent. Then we will have to secure $2.5 billion to increase foreign exchange reserves to $15 billion from $13.5 billion,"

(READERS, REGARDING THE ABOVE PLEASE ASK WHY FOLLOW A "TARGET" SET BY "OPPONENTS").

"If these measures were not taken, Mr Dar said, the fiscal deficit would rise to 9.5 per cent of the GDP, and at that level, the deficit would be “almost unmanageable”."

(AGAIN ASK WHY WILL IT BE "UNMANAGEABLE", WHAT IS WRONG WITH A DEFICIT PER SE?)

Aside: "Interestingly, President Musharraf had levelled similar allegations when he had removed the Nawaz Sharif government in October 1999."

THE BLAME:

"An additional expenditure of Rs45 billion was incurred on importing wheat and there was no budgetary provision for that either."

IMF/WB talk?

"He conceded that the Public Sector Development Programme (PSDP) had to be cut to enable the government to handle growing financial difficulties.."

HERE IS THE BEST. FIXING THE PROBLEM:

"He said that the Senate’s Finance Committee and the new Public Accounts Committee would summon former prime minister Shaukat Aziz, former finance minister Dr Salman Shah and the two previous finance secretaries to explain their roles in what he termed “bringing the country to a dangerous point”. “Nobody will get away. Everyone will have to face accountability,”"

GOOD JOB !!!!!



At the end of the day, we "the people" are responsible. Right now one has to ensure that the govt. survives its tenure SO THAT IT CAN BE CHANGED in a civilized manner. This institution will check those who get to run the state!

How to End Politics of Hate and Intolerance #45 Posted by zeemax:

I posted #49 before reading your question. But you will find the answer. Now, before we get into an arguement. I am not claiming that I am RIGHT or WRONG. I am asking you to analyse the situation so that YOU yourself decide. But what I am requesting you is that be cold in your analyses and not bring emotions in. You are a good man and do not get deviated by the chatter against you.

How to End Politics of Hate and Intolerance How doe the state rule through co-ercive groups?

I shall not use MQM or the "jihadi" groups in my answer because people here are not neutral. So lets go to Balochistan. My source is today's Dawn.

Recall that I had stated that state coercion is a constant though the dogs of war may change. Here is what the new CM did:

"... directed the provincial secretaries to cancel all appointments made by the caretaker government, EXCEPT the recruitments made through the Balochistan Public Service Commission."

Now let us see what groups persecuted in the past do when they come to power (MQM foresees this). Here is the CM again:

“...Gwadar is a .... mega problem for the Baloch because settlement of outsiders will deprive the natives of their right to sit in this house. The settlement of outsiders will be conditional and they will have no right to vote or contest elections,”

Now obviously, the dogs of war need teeth, i.e. they need "fighters" to kill those who oppose them. So here is recruitment for you:


".... he rejected a perception that people fighting in the mountains were terrorists or saboteurs. “The fighters in the mountains are our brothers and they have taken up weapons for the rights of the people,” he said."

Of course, everything has to be couched in SLOGANS. And here are a few:

"...political movements of the Baloch people, Pukhtuns or Sindhis could not be suppressed by force."

"We don’t agree with the elements who call fighters struggling for their rights in other areas mujahideen or hurriyat pasand but dub the fighters in Balochistan as traitors or terrorists."

"We must accept the ground reality that we cannot proceed to tackle the problems faced by the people of Balochistan without harmony and love."

....blah .. blah etc.

Finally, the slogan for dominance, non-opposition and hierarchy (you can also see it as a threat to other groups):

"He said that members of the house belonging to different schools of thought had elected him unopposed which reflected their aspirations to struggle jointly to take the province out of the grave crisis confronting it."

How to End Politics of Hate and Intolerance #38 Posted by zeemax:

MQM - PPP alliance was conditional on the lawyers (and others like PPP) leaving Karachi alone. PPP could not "contol" the lawyers anywhere, forget Karachi. So MQM flexed their muscles (after Zard. failed to flex his non-existing ones). Rest is media crap for public consumption.

I am a bit dis-heartened by the chickening out of AA. On the other hand, it is nice to know that the lawyers do not follow a "leader". OBL's tactics need not be confined to violent movements only.

How to End Politics of Hate and Intolerance #27 Posted by sgb:

"..why majority of fouj consists of pakistani people..."

Why were the majority of police, army, judges, lawyers, feudals etc. prior to 1947 brown in color?

How to End Politics of Hate and Intolerance #19 Posted by Urstruly:

What happened in Karachi is a turf battle, spearheaded by a group who has just lost state patronage. This group will try to rally its members by taking recourse to those parts of history where its members were repressed by the state. This is nothing new in the dynamic of a state which rules the population by patronizing co-ercive groups. Or for that matter, what is happening is not confined to simply Karachi. You will see the same thing happening, but its manifestation may be different, in your beloved NWFP etc. State co-ercion through coercive groups under slogans that appeal to its members is a wide-spread phenomenon in our sub-continent. Crying hoarse in favor of this or that slogan will get us neither here or these. But it will perpetuate the existance of a barbaric state, controlled by (perhaps) different sections of the same ruling cabal or even a completely new group. The barbaric nature, however, will persist.

MQM knows what is the real challenge. As it stand today, the lawyers movement has no teeth. But, the platform the movement stands on may just slip to the unwashed .... and that cannot be allowed. It is very obvious in Karachi/Sind today because the unwashed are a wee bit more enlightened. Let the unwashed get a bit more enlightened in NWFP and your "heroes" will do the same.

But my point is that this is indeed good. The FIGHT against the state starts with the FIGHT against the dogs of war of the state.

How to End Politics of Hate and Intolerance Ikramul Haq:

"The man behind the politics of intolerance and hate, symbol of discord rather than harmony as president of State, is responsible for present state of affairs."

No! You are responsible. And without reflecting on this simple fact you facilitate the repeat of history time and again. Without taking responsibility the State will always remain the "maa - baap", and those who control the state (no matter who) will exploit those who do not. We south asians are not evolved because we fail to understand this and take responsibility.