A Weak Pakistan is a Threat to Neighbours Dear Ms. Sarwar, I can feel the anguish and fear in your writing. Unfortunately, Jayp and Eklavya have a valid point that a strong Pakistan is neither in India's nor Afganistan's interest. Historically, a feudal mindset, that is still prevelant in Pakistan, have always demonstrated animosity towards its neighbors.

When Ayub felt that Pakistan was strong vis-a-vis India he attaked India. Zia's legacy, established from a position of strength, is playing havoc with Afganistan even today and the "blowback" is having its consequences in Pakistan.

When Musharaf felt that he was strong enough bcos of the nuclear weapons, he unleashed Kargil.

So to say that a weak Pakistan is a threat to its neighbors is a fallacy. A strong Pakistan is a nightmare. A weak Pakistan embroiled in its own soup and contained within its borders is perhaps a more suitable arrangement.

Pakistan, a country created by the demand of the Muslim Feudals has never had any democracy. It has always been run by a Fuedal - be it an "elected" one or an oppointed one (Army). You now have Sindhi Feudals running the country.

I dont think that Pakistan is in any danger of failing completely. Yes, there is a possibility of some cracks in its structure from widening. The US will not allow Pakistan to break-up as it is not in its interests. Strangely enough, I dont think it is in interest of the Indians to break it up any further.

The Marriott Bombing: ‘Pakistan’s 9/11’? Re: # 12

Pak gov is no longer in charge. I would like pavocavalry's thoughts if Pak is already in an end game scenario.

Thanks

giani

Ahmedabad Blasts: Numbed Apathy and The Conspiracy Of Our Resilience Dear Masadi mian,

You are forcing me to agree with Hamid that you need to be vaccinated for rabies.

best

Ahmedabad Blasts: Numbed Apathy and The Conspiracy Of Our Resilience Dear lalit bhai - heartfelt condolences.
To the rest of the folks, IMHO, this is not a Hindu- Muslim issue. It is entirely a Muslim issue - for control of the Muslim soul. Unfortunately, the fundamentalists are winning because the moderate ones are too meek to rise up and fight for their own souls. A few more "victories" by the fundamentalists could result in a very violent backlash that could consume even the moderate muslims.

Any comments from the moderate muslims?

A Journey Interrupted: Being Indian in Pakistan by Farzana Versey Farzana's "opinions" reminds me of the colloquial proverb "Dhobi ka kutta na ghar ka na ghat ka"

Pervez Musharraf and India Pakistan Rapproachment Re: # 155

"HP/Giani ji, agreed that we have to come to terms with history and accept each other. But how? What can the two countries do, except let the other believe what they believe (as tahmed suggests, but that contradicts what HP has posited)?"

When I first joined chowk, I thought it to be a forum for intellectuals to discuss precisely this point. Now, I am convinced chowk is not the forum. The baggage of history and perceived grievances have been carried over here as well.

There are few individuals here such as DM who have their romantic notions, but then romatic notions have never solved issues and always tended to focus more on the selective "happy memories".

Unless the baggage of grievances can be cast more as a lesson of history and be discussed in perspective without prejudice to both parties, there is no solution.

IMHO, other than economics and desire to survive the onslaught of globalization, there is no common driving force for Pakistanis and Indians. This common cultural, similar language etc alas are but figments of a romantic perspective.

Jinnah was right. We always were two nations who coexisted peacefully for a common purpose and that being economic security. That is why a south asians in a minority in a third country tend to be friendlier under the guise of common cultural crap when the real motive is survival - Americas being a good example. However when the same group finds a larger group of their people ala UK, they revert to their ethnic prejudices.

I beleive that this was the real driving force behind Vajpayee and Advani's desire to improve relations to open up economic relations. The mass Bangladeshi migration to India, inspite of having their own country, also supports this arguments.

Any thoughts?

Cheers

Giani

Pervez Musharraf and India Pakistan Rapproachment The first threat of a nuclear strike was by the Foreign Minister of Pakistan when India conducted Operation Brasstacks in the 80s. This "excercise" had so scared the Pakistanis, perhaps rightly so and so much so that they felt that it was a prelude of an invasion of their country.

This was in the 80s, around the time when the Israelis wanted India to provide bases to them so that they could take out the Kahuta and other facilities in Pakistan.

Indira Gandhi refused. Since she was dead in 1984, the genii of the big bomb was already out in the open among the diplomats in the 1980s.

All that the BJP did was make it all public. The Pakistani leadership felt the public pressue, it wasnt the army that pushed for retaliatory tests.

I agree with the assessment that the Advani et al felt that Pakistanis would suffer more than the Indians at the inevitable sanctions. Vaypayee was never for the tests. It was Advani who pushed for it.

Maybe Pavocavalry can provide some wisdom on who benefited more from 1998 onwards.

Pervez Musharraf and India Pakistan Rapproachment Re: # 190

A lovely post. I am afraid HP is going to say that this indicates that Indians want Pakistan and are not reconciled to that country's existence.

Pervez Musharraf and India Pakistan Rapproachment Re: # 164

the statement should read "completely agree"

Pervez Musharraf and India Pakistan Rapproachment Re: # 161
Re: # 160
Re: # 158 etc

Tahmed, you do have a point let globalizaton force the issue. If there is one place where India and Pakistan compete, it is at the WTO. There it seems the views are completely congruent.

Eklavya and HP,

Alas, in the end, it will be the political people who will end up resolving the issue.

Why not practice what you preach. Lets ignore the zees and the arjuns etc when the discussion invariably turns to contenious issues on chowk, and lets focus instead on how the discussions and contacts can move forward in a postive way first on chowk and then on the ground.

Pervez Musharraf and India Pakistan Rapproachment Re: # 146

HP,

You are correct. I am one of those "a usual extremist from the wrong side of the border ". As a matter of fact, I am pretty proud of it too.

But you and tahmed are wrong about the bomb. The bombs have been there for while. It only became public in 1998. The idea to make it all public was good one. It is debatable as to who benefited.

I wonder what Salim would say about

"Pakistan exists in areas where the current Pakistanis have always lived and they exercised their right of self determination in 1947!"

However, you do have one misconception. I do not think that other than a negligble minority, Indians want Pakistan or Pakistanis back. The Indians have enough problems of their own.

Belonging to the Jammu region, my individual position on Kashmir is that it should go to Pakistan and the Kashmiris should enjoy the life as the rest of Pakistanis.

However, of late, this desire on their part seems to have dimmed.

Eklavya, if you look to the future without digesting the history, as someone wise once said that you are bound to repeat it.

Cheers

Giani

Pervez Musharraf and India Pakistan Rapproachment Dost Mittar Sahib,

I took your advice to tahmed32 and read your article and posts multiple times.

I think your article is more a reflection of what you would like to see as opposed to what is reality. That is, it is an idealism disconnected from reality.

Just take the posts for this article. It shatters genisis of your article to smittereens.

If you think more interactions could lead to us hugging hamiddumdum or tahmed32 or vice versa, then at least the posts would have indicate some desire for it. In fact, the posts validate that TNT was wise, Jinnah screwed up by not taking the rest of his kin with him, etc, etc.

Secondly, the factual aspect of Mush being a good boy and wanting to kiss and make up, I think when you have a Big brother sitting on your doorstep, feeding you and fattening your wallet, anything he wants - you will do.

Thirdly, this big brother would rather have the Indians focus more on new bully arriving on the scene - china. Since the big brother cannot handle this new bully by himself. So he prevents the distractions by managing the leash, while pushing the indians to focus more on the strategic ie the new big bully.

I hope you get my drift. Indians and pakistanis whether rightly or wrongly shall not co mingle in a friendly manner in the foreseeable future. Maybe for another 50 to 100 generations. There are too many grievious wrongs in the recent past for any friendship other than superficial to happen. SO this idea of more interactions is a good thing, well, I always believed in distance lending more enchanment to the view.

The only concession i am willing to make is in their own way both sides are right.

with lots of respect and admiration

giani

The Conspiracy Theory Dear Pavo,

I have to admit that I came across one of your articles by accident and then googled you and read whatever you the published - all that I could find on the web.

You confirm the long held suspicion of mine that under the skin we are all the same. Religion is personal and is best left at home.

I am not going to go into the merits of whether MAJ or MG or JLN were good or bad; or INC or ML were good or bad. They were a product of their times and they did what they geninuely believed to be right. One point is clear that they were giants in their own right to be able to manipulate so many people.

But one thing is for sure that IMs still suffer the consequences of 1947 - a fact both unfair and unjust.

I really enjoyed reading your articles and wish that you keep writing them.

Giani

The Plan To Topple Pakistan Military Nuts!

First it was Bangladesh now it Baluchistan Salim mian,

I would give tahmed a break. He was probably not born when Bangladesh happened. At least he has been consistent.

giani

Why the American War on Terror is Failing Miserably Re: # 162

Come to think of it I almost invited you out for drink bcos you were after gopinath's grandson!!!! I guess it will have to be Salim only.

giani