Swearing-in Ceremony with Hand on the Bible? Re: # 613 by subhashjoshi

I see quiet an answer comin from NtSyed! Plus i know what it is but I`m not going to ruin the surprise!

Happy surprpise : D
RB

Swearing-in Ceremony with Hand on the Bible? Re: # 610 by mjumdar

Thank you for the creative question :)

I do realize that we live in a world where multiple perspectives are required to look through to solve problems

You said: [Is it right to kill or otherwise punish a human being who refuses to believe in God or believes in a God diff from yours or a multiplicity of Gods or who having once been a believer ( In Islam or any other religion) choses subsequently to refuse to believe?]

I am a Muslim and have Ahmadi+Christian [I do not know many Jews] friends who have eventually become our family friends; which obviously means that eventhough there might be religious, obligatory and ``logical`` reasons to invite them to Islam, i simply do not, for it will be the cauze of my aleination. Not many people openly listen or want to understand any other religions at this point --thus, trying my best would only revert back for worse results. Religious fights n` movements have become political and I have no keen interest in either one.

Having said that, one could apply that religion without practise is no religion: However, I do not feel ready for any religious obligations right now --at least at this age :)


To clarify the ``Not many people`` i wrote above: the category excludes Scholars

Swearing-in Ceremony with Hand on the Bible? Re: # 609 by subhashjoshi

Oh dear! I only wrote the word ``argument`` didn`t just mean arguments. It included suggestions, comments, questions, concerns and arguments :)

Anyhow, you`re welcome once again.

Swearing-in Ceremony with Hand on the Bible? Re: # 603 by subhashjoshi


Dear subhashjoshi, If you don`t happen to follow any scriptures then it is not anyone`s fault. If you have any arguments to what was been discussed, you are very very welcomed.

Swearing-in Ceremony with Hand on the Bible? Re: # 606 by kaalchakra

This is what urstruly has been implying as well. Glad one more appreciates :)

Sex and Censorship in the Cinema Re: # 34 by taikonaut on December 9, 2006 5:49pm PT

in response to #23 by TAFKAN on December 8, 2006 1:38pm PT
[also, i find it interesting that not many females have responded]
> Man! you are real Thudky (sexually frustrated).

> Desi females talking about porn and art? Nah!
> I am sure you don`t understand how majority of desi females deal with sex. 90% of them are ``meesnis`` as my Punjabi friends say.


I didn`t know you could get this funny and hey, your Punjabi friends tell you this; I`m amazed: Isn`t that ``Meesni`` of them?!?!

You already know how talking about sex for females could turn around and ruin their married life even if it has yet to come in many years, don`t you? Guys can just fudge around and have with anything and it will go unnoticed.

Anyhow, here I am --a female, talking about it. What now?!

Questions? Ask away.


RB

Swearing-in Ceremony with Hand on the Bible? Re: # 598

Yes, that`s a whole another issue which i wish to let alone. To add, I wish to live peacefully with my Ahmadi friends and anyone else back in Pakistan --too many other issues to resolve first :)


Lovv,
RB

Swearing-in Ceremony with Hand on the Bible? Re: # 596

Alrighte!

May I ask what was in your post 559 for me?

``raziab, I can handle only one idiot at a time ... wait for your turn ..``

RB

Swearing-in Ceremony with Hand on the Bible? Re: # 589 by Sattar2

“Implicit or explicit threats” is a complicated issue … don’t know if there is a short, straight answer for the way you have phrased the question``



It sure is a complicated one. I guess we should just remain at the basics yet :D
I don`t have enough brains today --got an exam!

Swearing-in Ceremony with Hand on the Bible? Re: # 591 by urstruly.

“Quadianis raise the issue of apostasy, despite the fact that there is no such law in Pakistan because of two reasons...”
+
“First of all Pakistan does not have any law on Apostasy, so in the context of Pakistan there is no question of eradication”

> Post 558 by me:
> [Not just that but they also, of course, invite people to their religion: Which is a threat to Islam --not to their ``Islam``. This kicked them out of Pakistan. And yes, they were killed too. Both Verses Practiced.]

> [Both Verses Practiced] is what I interpreted when Qadianies were fought against in Pakistan. If it wasn’t the law then it must be the Islamic “legal obligations” and hadith the guys followed.


“As far as the Capital punishment for apostasy is concerned, it is reserved for those who actively tread ino the realm of sedition against the Islamic state and try to proselytize Muslims to their new faith (also forbidden in Islamic law). The offence of this level amounts to teason and justifies a capital punishment.”

> So you do agree with the different ‘levels’ of punishments assigned to different levels of apostasies = [apostates] “who actively tread into the realm of sedition against the Islamic state and try to proselytize Muslims to their new faith > [will get a capital punishment].”

“But on the other hand the punishment for apostates ranges from merely social boycott to imprisonment, and exile”

> “merely social boycott” for those who pose no threat = Yay

“So in my opinion even the capital punishment, considering the procedure to get to that, is quite humane and justified.”

> I agree


RimshaB

Swearing-in Ceremony with Hand on the Bible? Re: # 588 by Sattar2

Hm! All those posts have been repeating and summarizing all the way and I somewhat do agree on the sunaas and ahadith but problem is that the context, time, and events are all important to the laws` creation and enforcement.

Anyway, I have presented something as well and want to see what the result is. If same thing occurs with no conclusion then we`ll just leave it at that.

Swearing-in Ceremony with Hand on the Bible? Re: # 586 to Sattar2

And killing of the implicitly+explicitly threatening apostates?

Swearing-in Ceremony with Hand on the Bible? Re: # 583 by sattar2

and Sattar2, what do you think about eliminating the killing of only non-threatening apostates?

Swearing-in Ceremony with Hand on the Bible? Re: # 583 by Sattar

Your posts have a warm ``welcome`` to them :)

It seems that you believe ahadith and sunas are totally irrelevant to religious rules. Just read urstrulys 578 again and you`ll look at this from a different lense.

I understand that you and I agree on some perspectives but let out the ``sticking to Quran`` please.

Thank you,
RB

Swearing-in Ceremony with Hand on the Bible? Re: # 578 by urstruly

[It is interesting to note that Jesus (pbuh), himself, was crucified because of his ``crime`` of blasphemy under Jewish law.]

If Jesus was crucified for blasphemy then Muslims could be killed for apostasy because this way they become apostates of Jews & Christians. How? They were once both but when the new religion (finished religion: Islam) entered, they joined the group. Oh --that was way off!

Back to the Ahadith: You also assured that [``apostasy`` is a wrong attribute that must be avoided and discouraged]. It is obvious as we should follow Shara-e-Qable-na`` meaning, the law of the previous people (prophets), which was to severely punish the threatening & non-threatening (both) apostates. However, if this law was built just like Common Law (Which is jugdge-made law and depends on previous cases) then it could be altered to what the new times require or what people vote towards.

Common law & votes aside, if this act is one of the very few prophets`-made-laws which are being followed in countries like Pakistan then what about the laws that we leave behind? One law, which we all know has been led by Prophet M (pbuh), of cutting off hands of one who steals.

This reminds me of the 5-time prayers. In all prayers there are ``Sunatein``: basically what Prophet M pbuh used to pray. ``Farz`` are a must but one, if for some major reason, is not able to finish the Sunas and Anfal then they are not punished for them. We could apply the same knowledge elsewhere. I know this could be an irrelevant comparison but just imagine eliminating the killing of only non-threatening apostates. This way, we are not breaking any rules and reputation remains!

In my opinion, only in context of Pakistan, killing non-threatening apostates should be eradicated

Swearing-in Ceremony with Hand on the Bible? Re: # 574 majumdar

Aw, common in --if you read the 300 recent posts, you`ll have a pretty good idea of what was going on. However, if it starts to sound boring, you may leave.

;)
RB
PS. this is not an invitation to Islam!