Cockroaches of Disruption http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=zeitgeist+addendum&emb=0&aq=0& %20oq=zeitgeist+ad#

The above is the longer version of the link posted by Leadnwinter. And absolutely, it is a must. It sheds light on the financial basis of the current economic disaster that sure is going to lead to:
1. Global depression / recession
2. Collapse of US empire
3. New World Order ....(ha, which Bush not had imagined even in his .... dreams.
4. And either total take over by cockroaches or their total disappearance.
May be some economic expert at Chowk can expound on these happenings. There is such dead silence here.

Cockroaches of Disruption How the tempo builds in the poem is amazing.

It starts reflecting the hurry and scurry and apparent haphazard commotions of 'cockroaches'.

And it ends all the way to the elevation of thought to a height where a sweeping view of the 'political cockroaches' can be sighted.

Then the poet's trumpet is heared: “Light it; there may still be enough to ignite”

With pain in the heart that maybe, maybe, there is not really enough. One can almost hear the sigh. And “hope is thing with feathers” … which sings and sings and never stops.

It reminds me of Quran when it says, you hear these verse and Laugh – and not Cry!

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! Re: # 92 in the present situation onus is on the new government. It is the litmus test for our people too. I believe the turn of events will bare open all the hidden currents which are shaping now the destiny of that region - not just Pakistan.
We need the strength of all the intellectual resources at our disposal to understand all that ...
Keep pitching in ... all you writers at Chowk

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! Re: # 88 I do wish to stay optimistic, and I do pray for PEACE - with a weeping heart at the state of affairs - not just for recent blast - but more for how our real values find no expression anywhere in our institutions - how all for what Pakistan should stand for has been relegated to darkness.
I alwasys wonder, could we stand up against the military take over - why our politicians were so weak - what makes a politician strong?(or should I say state-person - can't say stateman to avoid sexism) - a question for social historians - what are factors which in one country allow easy take over by military junta and in another it is not so?

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! Re: # 39 I respect ZK sahiba’s passion and patriotism deeply. She has a unique perspective which stems from her sincerity and good-heartedness. I have no doubt. In the same spirit of sincerity, I wished to discuss a contradiction which unknowingly may cloud our judgment when it comes to identifying the root causes of our problems. We may support an ad hoc measure, not realizing the long term impact. It is matter of being clear about the principles we must cherish.
As I said in my other post, if military had not taken over in the first place and democratic methods to remove corrupt politician been allowed to be used, we would have become much more mature in our political faculties. If parents will always do things for children, children will never grow. They will never be able to make decision. Let them even make mistakes. They will learn by making mistakes. So will people. But if you come as a Messiah, how people are going to mature?
When the democracy does not get matured, there will be no chance for transparency to flourish. And all sorts of vested interests will make the country their hostages.
That is the point of view which I wanted to discuss so that there can be more clarity. Only through discussion we can see the weakness of our arguments. And I welcome any criticism on my argument because that will be the most sincere thing I can ever hope for.
(--- in line with the spirit of democracy :-)

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! Re: # 38 salim sb, your through review of the comments and thoroughgoing responses are much appreciated.

Your comment, "The immediate responsibility, as you stated, lies with the military brass. The ultimate responsibility lies with the people of Pakistan." is the type of generalization that can dilute the effort to identify the culprits of this mess we find ourselves in.

It is of course a complicated matter and many will take strong positions when it comes to identifying the real causes (and the people who championed those causes). However, I find hard to accept any justification for military take over.

Why we have the constitutions as the basic social contract in the first place? Violating the constitution to remove a corrupt politician is the worst excuse we can make for military take over. Why not instead strengthen the democracy? Why not to find the methods within democracy to remove those miscreants. It is Army's attitude of 'holier than thou" which is at the base of all this. It started with Ayub.
Once the constitution is violated, and its institutions are weakened and bastardized, the society will find itself in a vicious cycle of incivility and degradation. Did people ask Ayub to take over? Yes, 'Mushy''s case maybe slightly different but army's insidious power had already poisoned everything. We were already at the end of the downward cycle started and reinforced by many military rulers.
How people can be blamed for it? If a robber comes with a gun in hand and snatch your possessions will you blame yourself? Can we blame all German's for Hitler's crimes?
My point is this: there are socio-economic forces at work which are at the root of such cancerous growths in a society. Just like in the body, there are many things happening, we may not know, and suddenly we find that we have a cancerous growth. To remove that growth then we need to know what type of cancer it is and at what stage?
Nothing more to say it is so hopeless situation. Pakistan of my dreams has been transgressed so badly that it is crying at its death-bed and our own 'Chowkidar' is the main accomplice. (And at loss to know what to do now.)

The Marriott Bombing: ‘Pakistan’s 9/11’? Re: # 65 Skeptical,
Everyone has the right to disagree with the content. But Mwaqar's post are teeming with information and arguments are always presented with supporting material. Not empty rants like many are prone to to. I appreciate you supported your notion by referring to 42 to 59, but as I said everyone has right to disagree with the content.
Personally, I want to have broad perspective and information from all sides before I can form my opinion. Therefore writers like Mwaqar and Beena (and some others) are invaluable resource. In brief, I look for positives, unless negative is so big that it totally overshadows the positive. Basically, by my own account, I am an apolitical person.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! Re: # 3 ZK sahiba,
Yes, Responsibility lies with us but 'us' of the article is Pak Military, not us as you and me. However your commendation of Salim’s analysis can be construed as your agreement with the analysis that the onus for many of the ills of the country and possible solutions as well lies squarely on Military. In past, however, you have supported Musharraf ardently. How do you reconcile your two positions?

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! Salim Chauhan,
A well warranted and well placed criticism of the Pak Military institution, which has become Pakistan’s own nemesis. But when you say that responsibility is on us, where do you place the responsibility – on the Military or on the masses?
If it is later, then consider an individual like you or me, and tell me in specific terms how we are responsible for this deplorable state of affairs? Tell me what an abdul or ahmed or bano should do? Who should be hanged, if any?
The point is that we should not divert from where the buck actually lands. That can happen if we do not carefully avoid sweeping generalization of the issues.
Having said that the central point of the article (military's criticism - not that the responsibility lies with us - as inferred by ZK) is most commendable.

The Marriott Bombing: ‘Pakistan’s 9/11’? Re: # 61 beenasarwar
Beens Sarwar, keep bringing us your constructive and sensible articles !!! I did had a question about your comment "A military-only option is clearly not the answer: there must be a political roadmap."
What can be the political roadmap in an atmosphere of extreme violence and distrust? When previous government tried to make any deals with some groups it lead to nowhere - Pakistan was blamed for being soft by US and probably catalyzed Musharraf's ouster - and bigots kept killing any elders which were sympathetic to Pakistan Government. What can be the political roadmap in such dire conditions?

The Marriott Bombing: ‘Pakistan’s 9/11’? Re: # 59 KHYBER
Mwaqar, your posts are informative and eye-opening articles on their own right with refreshing perceptivity and distinctive viewpoint. I checked your blog too and they are outstanding. You might want to consider sending article on current situation for FP publishing.
At least you may want to add link to your blogs as part of your signature on these posts.

The God Delusion Re: # 273 pinku
you keep ignoring the central point - that is why it is said that mind is not always trustworthy - granted you never evre ignore all the achievements of mind - no one is saying that. And there is no romanticism in seeing things for what they are: half naked. Do you claim to know everything?

To reiterate, the central point was in the centre:

"All sacred can be turned profane
Yet in profane there some sacred remains

The Marriott Bombing: ‘Pakistan’s 9/11’? "A military-only option is clearly not the answer: there must be a political roadmap."
What can be the political roadmap in an atmosphere of extreme violence and distrust. Last time when they tried to make any deals with some groups under Musharraf it lead to nowhere - Pakistan was blamed for being soft - and bigots kept killing any elders which were sympathetic to Pakistan Government. Hell, there is no solution ...
What are the deeper designs? Is there any party which will stand for the real interests of Pakistani people? Is there any viable program with any of these parties?
It is all so hopeless, despicable ...?

Boot Point "A society whirling helplessly inside a dangerous socio-political flux in which even the most sensible men and women are looking at everyone but themselves to put the blame on for whatever that has gone wrong in the spheres of economics, politics and religion in Pakistan."

Why an ordinary person who has not caused this mess will blame themselves ... do you and I have any control over it?

"...if there are no multinationals sponsoring their shows, there will be no show at all."
WELL SAID

The God Delusion Re: # 270 saqibtahir,
These are the real issues, and real perspective on such issues. These are the type of the posts we need to have in order to understand various aspects of a social problem which is brought to the table by a writer. It is a very commendable and refreshing post bringing back to focus the problems put forth in the original 'article'.

And above all, this response is an example which shows the potential of engaging into various aspects of an issue in a sensible and productive way at the Chowk forum.
I am unaware of internal working of Ahmedia group, but coming from a member (or ex member), it is revealing, though it never justifies any violence against anyone.

Violence is unjustifiable in any fashion, in any type, by any group or person against any group or person or even an animal. That is my conviction.

I hope someone else more knowledgeable can throw light on the aspect which post # 270 brings forth.

Thank you Saqib Tahir.

The God Delusion "Fair is foul and foul is fair"
Macbethean witches of Shakespeare say.
All sacred can be turned profane
Yet in profane there some sacred remains
World is not always what it seems to be
There is more to it than our eyes can meet.