Student Movement Revisited I was involved in student politics in Karachi. I remaind presedent of 2 associations at a time. still I was in top 5 students in my class. I even spent some time in jail because of it. big rallies and student programs were arranged at that time. infact the biggest rallies of that year were organized by my unit.
I think politics is important in student life. we learn from there, we can't learn from books and from our Teachers how to live in the world. poor teachers cannot find any better jobs than that. otherwise they would be doing something else.

The ANP Challenge hamdani you wrote

3. Ofcourse Bhutto hobnobbed with the Islamists...But Bhutto did not claim to be secular or non-violent.

"4. ANP did join up with Nawaz Sharif's Islami Jamhoori Ittehad."

whats the point here? you are comparing ANP with which party in Pakistan? PPP had alliance with Mufti Mehmud's son in 1993 when they created Taliban.

Hamdani's argument proves one thing that ANP is still "the most Secular" party in Pakistani politics. (watch my words) ofcourse you won't accept MQM as real political party. (please don't start arguing about that now lol)

If you know a party which can get 5-6 National assebmly seats and is more secular than ANP. then please let us know.

The ANP Challenge I see Jamaat-e-Islami the biggest party of Brelvis. They don't believe in democracy and elections they believe in revolution. They infiltrate their people in Media, Army and civil services, in 70s they came in elections. Their idea is: a few righteous people should bring revolution and impose (their brand of) Islam. They are the biggest supporters of Jihad. Their propaganda for "Afghan jehad" and their share in Zia's Majlis-e-shoora and the $$$s which came from US to fight that War is well known. MMA as whole supports Taliban. (perhaps not the Shia faction) so dividing deobandi and brelvi into Jihadi and non jihadi is not working practically. if it said that only Pashtuns are deobandi then what about Kashmiri Militants and their support base in Punjab.
Basically Jihad is a Responsibility of a Muslim against evil. its only the interpretation and the use which can make it good or bad. Bacha Khans non-violent struggle was a Jehad. if someone was writing in newspaper against the British it was also a jehad. it can have any form of struggle against something bad considered by the society. Since occupation and colonization is considered bad or evil by the society of any country, then getting rid of it is the right of the people. To use that right is Jehad in Arabic. Hindu would give it any other name Christians would call it something else for example Crusade.
It is a more political jehad. people get money from Saudia or Kuwait or UAE to convert people to Wahabism. there are more than 10,000 Madrassas in Pakistan. I know a few grand Madrassas which are built by Wahabis in Balochistan near Quetta. the presence of Arab Militants ( or terrorists) proves that it was not our Jehad it was imposed on us by United States and the West.
So Hamdani should have problems with its use by different people but not with its basic concept.

The ANP Challenge "If one talks of Saifullahs one points out that two brothers are in PML-Q and one in the PPP. Does it mean we should not mention one side of the family altogether"

please don't insult the khan family by comparing them with these corrupt drug smugglers.

The ANP Challenge "Look Salman, my friend, I have already responded to your "proofs"
haha this is funny. what was his response? you have added words to mr Woplerts text. haha. anyone cn go and check the book, where have I added words. and am I stupid to add words to a well known book commonly available to prove my point? Not Really. what can we belive of him?

The ANP Challenge You have the right to have your own point of view. but point of view doesn't mean that you insult someone. Calling them crooks opportunists corrupt.
I have proved MLs violence and I have more to show about Mr Jinnah and ML. I have showed you that they were conservative and used Islam for their goals.
ML’s opportunism is well known. It was shown in 1943 when they formed a Ministry under NWFP Governor Cunningham without having members in the assembly. His letter shows their corruption and horse-trading. So this horse-trading is not something new for them
These are things you blame Bacha Khan for.

The ANP Challenge "I accused Bacha Khan of colluding with Fakir of Ipi. That is all. So I can't give you evidence for something I did not claim."

People can have friendships with anyone, can be with opponents too. I stated before fakir was Hero he fought the British. Eve they have praised him. Called him a brave principled enemy. Its part of Pashtun culture they have high regard for enemies too. When they meet they give full respect to each other. Qayyum Khan’s problem was he was not Pashtun. So having kind of friendship is understandable. As you said Pir of Manki became Bacha Khan’s good friend later. They forgot about what happened in 1946-47. Pir was the main guy who created such a situation in NWFP which gave a reason to the British to conduct referendum in NWFP instead of asking the assembly as was part of the formula. Their regard of each other was clear that they were old “babas” they had fought the same war from different fronts. They were sincere in whatever their beliefs were. Some used violence against military some used against people and some remained non-violent.
If Bacha khan had helped fakir in anyways either financially or militarily then it would have been said that He wanted to topple the “unislamic” government of Pakistan otherwise there is no problem in it. He had friendship with Gandhi Nehru Family and Kabul government. They also didn’t have good relations with Pakistan government.

I don’t see any problem in it. If someone else feels something wrong in it he can tell us.

The ANP Challenge Bacha khan was not involved with Mufti Mehmud. so stick to Bacha khan for once. we will talk abouut Wali Khan later.

...how is abusing Jinnah going to absolve your Bacha Khan of his misdeeds?

When you are dipped in shit you cannot call someone dirty for having a particle of dust on his shirt.

You cannot speak of Bacha Khan in a vacuum. He was there with all those opponents. Nobody could reach the height of his character. After all that abuse and persecutions. He still didn’t lose hope. He was still a Pakistani. When a lot less than that happened to one of your guys, he fled to India saying I will be back riding Indian tank. So if you tell me Mr Jinnah was good Bacha Khan was bad. Then I will show you Jinnah was one of the worst and the biggest flip-flop. If you try to compare Bacha Khan with some angels then I would have to accept that. Angels cannot go against the will of God. But human beings can.

The ANP Challenge you have not given any evidence that Bacha khan or his KK was involved in "violent action" to bring down the "unislamic government" of Pakistan

The ANP Challenge regarding babarda massacre

"And the main architect was none other than Bacha Khan's old Congress comrade Qayyum"

you mean he joined ML in 1946 then Qayyum Khan was CM of NWFP and member of ML a staunch supporter of Jinnah. when he ordered that Massacre. it was the fault of Congress becasue before he was a member of that party? my question to all fiends is.
who else belives in hamdani's argument?

The ANP Challenge Mr Hamdani
we are not done yet. you bring everything in one post. so lets talk about Ghaffar Khan and Mr Jinnah once then we can go Wali Khan and others.

you have not proven that I have added words to Mr Wolperts text. those words are still there in the book. if you lie and say that the "violent" word is not there then I have challenged everyone here to check the book and prove me wrong. I can't say more than that. Jinnah welcomed violent Action. those are the words of Stanley Woplert. As I know you. it was expected from you. I was surprised that howcome you have not asked me that " learn english then talk to me" thing long before.

The ANP Challenge Cheema brother

We are all for secularism (I hope we are) the point here is Muslim League was or is a conservative party. they were aggressively using Islam to get votes. Mr Jinnah wrote letters to people promising them that Pakistan would have laws according to shariya. that’s how he was getting support from different sections of masses. the reason Pakistan constitution was not formed was the same . he was not showing his cards he kept people in illusion. Basically it was wrong thing to do because decisions should be taken according to the wishes of the members or in other words people should have seen Jinnah's ideas and joined ML or voted for it. in this case ML members were getting votes for Islam because Pakistan and Islam were synonymous.
They used violence to prove that Muslims and Hindus cannot live together. Jinnah said
Either divided India or destroyed India.
Due to these our people still don’t know what was Pakistan created for. I am sure you know all this. If you need some proofs I can make them available for you.

The ANP Challenge ok hamdani paste that here again let me see what you have stated in it. about Jinnah and his league. how much was he responsible for the activities of his fanatic league comprised of jehadi and corrupt elements and opportunists
you keep repeating HP brothers remark about me. Should I write someones remark about you.
"Hamdani is a born liar"

I am waiting your reply.
So anyone checked the book and found out that some words were aded or omitted from the Stanley Wolpert's text. Where it was said that Jinnah welcomed Violent action. I am sure Hamdni you add and omit words from the text. I just realized people can do it.

The ANP Challenge I don't get Hamdani's points here.
He keeps saying Jinnah Jinnah. does it mean Jinnah and MUslim League are differnt? Muslim league's corruption is well known. I have posted Governor NWFP letter here. which tells about ML's corruption and horse trading.

The ANP Challenge Majumdar bhai

1- you said Jinnah didn't ask ML to start violence they did it on their own. it kept on going till May 1947.

2- Hamdani said Babara shrif Massacre and that ordinance were the creation of Qayyum Khan. Jinnah has nothing to do with that.

It means Jinnah was not able to control his Party and he was not capable of running a country as governor general.

The ANP Challenge Mr Hamdani why are you such a coward. just answer the simple question.
in your view
Jinnah didn't ask the Ml for violence.
or
Muslim League as party didnt start violence.

DOn''t tell us where to go simply answr the question and dont fool around