Salim bhai,

Hamara bhai Hamza zara zarrorat sai ziyada jazbaati hai.

He is reasonable once the khopRda cools down

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STOP THIS, HAMZA

KIYA SUB KAMBAKHT INJUNS MAR GAYE HEN?

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but on a serious note...pakistan has never EVER been given a shot at democracy ....there have been facades but the strings were still in the hands of armed forces...i can elaborate but i hope that u already know...democracy is a self corrective process....the same corrupt politicians will weed out if the process is given a real chance on long term basis...india is a prime example...all there problem aside they have been able to keep there geography intact even though there was every reason to the contrary but democracy gives ppl a platform to vent at least...we on the other hand had everything going for us...n we still managed to loose half of our country only because our rulers were dictators n they always felt that civilians were beneath them.

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So r u suggesting what i think u r suggesting ...inqilaab? a bloody revolution....u r a closet israr ahmed fan..u freak...i knew there was something about u that i like..

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hamza ustaad,

once again, you got swept away in rhetoric and emotion.

Do me a favor and read my posts completely The ones I posted before and this one as well

MY points, let me summarize:

I am not suggesting that the army should rule. I am not suggesting that Musharraf should remain in power. I am simply saying, let us not continue our pattern of short term memory. We should remember the aholes that come into power are not glorified saints anymore. And we should remember the good and the bad. However, at the moment, the people have no choice. They really have to throw out all the elites out of power


1. We do not have democracy because the so called leaders are not from the masses. These are elitists. No wonder the masses get tired of these "leaders" as soon as they come in power. India's democracy is a 100 times better cause they got rid of the jageerdars and the wadairas. South America has people rising from the poor to become the leaders. Not so in Pakistan. If you noticed, "Bilawal" was appointed the head of PPP!!! Furthermore, PPP never held elections internally to decide who gets the ticket. It's all a big joke.

2. I am not in favor of the army ruling the country.

3. I am not saying "let Musharraf remain in power". I am merely suggesting that one does not forget all the good Musharraf did...let's not remain perpetual victims of short term memory.

4. IS the army corrupt? Absolutely! Was Musharraf corrupt? There is no proof whatsoever that Musharraf was corrupt. He sincerely did try to do the right thing...until the assassination attempts, when he lost it.

5. I have started to look at things outside of amnesia based sloganeering emotions. Which means, I am looking at the reason why Pakistan has failed leadership, continuously. It does not have to do with the awam, it has to do with the elitist structure (Army / Politicians) that do not represent the awam at all.

6. BTW, I never suggested that Paki awam are not worthy of democracy or cannot/should not decide their own destiny. However, I am suggesting that the current gov is the same shit different day. Mark my words, in a couple of years, the people will be angry at the current government.

7. The reason there was no bloodshed when Musharraf assumed power was that Musharraf removed the previous elites from power and did not actually do anything against the people. The people were relieved at that point.

8. The people have no choice, so they are always simply asking for the current ahole in power to be removed. Why is that? Cause the people's interests are never met by the ruling elite.

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Thanks zee...

n one more thing toofan...for every brig. level general you will bring who is not billionaire in pakistan...i will bring 5 ex ministers even ex PM who lives a very humble life n r NOT billionaires n r known shareef log...my submission is that u wont be able to brig. because we have legalized corruption as far as Pakistan Armed forces n those corruptions have been legitimized n legalized by one man, it could be ayub, yahya, zia, pervaiz..list is long....this molestation has to stop.

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but pakistani politicians have paid for it with there lives, jail, exile, torture...when have the generals ever paid with anything..

That's an excellent remark abu ...

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Who died and made you the arm chair analyst as to what is democracy and what isnt?

Who gives a fukk about which democracy you or I will 'have' and which u wont?

Out of 160 million 80 million people risked their lives literally of getting blown up on the election day and voted your commando out. Just because YOU seem to think that those mases are too unclean n simple to make the right decision, doesnt make it a fact. It's your opinion, but the rest of Pakistan is beyond that Military propaganda that only a man with stick can do good for us when in fact all they do is ruin institutions and make mockery of everything not because the judges were 'corrupt' but because they were paranoid that those 60 judges would give a verdict according to the constitution and not because mushy said so.

The reason I think you dont either know jack shit about pakistani politics or history of that matter is because you are capable of making an atrocious statement like 'these same judges hanged ZAB' r u fukkin kidding me...ahh HELLO ...it was ZIA stupid, forget ZAB..maulvi mushtaq would have rendered a treason verdict against me and send me to gallows n i was hardly born then.

What do you expect us to do here exactly? Love musharaf and think hes God's gift to Pakistan just because YOU said so, when the realities on ground are screaming against it? Who the hell is saying that Zardari or NS are wali-Allah? But its the right of the people of pakistan, not u n i...those ppl that went in to the polling booths and voted....u think its easy boycotting as a lawyer on principle when ur family depends on your income on daily basis? Do u think its easy as students to get slapped and kicked by police...or get bombed in masajids?

Get a clue man...look at the people that have supported your boy musharaf ...some pakistani politicians might be corrupt no doubt and we r not unique in that ...but pakistani politicians have paid for it with there lives, jail, exile, torture...when have the generals ever paid with anything...even after loosing wars after wars and even after fukking up the entire country we reward them with more lavish defense colonies...theres is only one group of people who support the rule of dictator in Pakistan now n those r the opportunistic thugs that belong to army families and it makes sense because they were the direct beneficiary of the rape that was being committed by this oppressive army of its own people. Shame on you.

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