{"The Indian mind may be closer to the one in the pre-Islamic or jahiliyah period - I am guessing here"}

Kaal Bhayya,
I am so glad that Shah Sahib posted your words of wisdom here. I think that you have something genuinely interesting in this. Yes, the people of Mecca during Jahaliyah were quite similar to "modern" Hindus - long on pomp, ceremony, and commercialized religion, but very short on sacrifice, self-denial, and faith in the hereafter. It's not profitable or even self-assuring to think of life after one'
s death.

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#85 Posted by KaalChakra on May 12, 2008 6:11:37 am
Shah bhai, it is true that Islam represents dynamism and change, but change and dynamism, like almost everything else, mean the opposite things to Islam than they to the Indian mind (The Indian mind may be closer to the one in the pre-Islamic or jahiliyah period - I am guessing here

But Indians have embraced Change .How do you claim in the PRESENT time u r preislamic .Granted u are not muslim but Reformed Progressive

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Cobray,
Now that Maharaja Aurangjeb's hold on Rajput minds is gone, what is preventing me from reverting to the path of my paternal ancestors?

I assure you that my faith in Islam is based ONLY because of my sincere belief in Allah and the love of MY Holy Prophet (PBUH). Both of them are a pleasant source of peace and contentment for me.

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Cobbes its again your perception that you r considered 'weak'.If you mistake feudalism of Moghul military aventures as islam/muslim .As far as Islam ( not fedalistic pride)is considered
u mistake muslims to be weak of PAST .

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Shah, all I am saying is please do not consider it as our weakness. Staying loyal iman is an Islamic concept and not very alien to our part of world. If anything statement like these forces "moderate Hindus" to take sides. And you know whose side they are going to take when push comes to shove.

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{"They do not want to bear burden of all the religious garbage."}

Cobray,
I would be OK with them if that's all they are doing. But, these hypocrites are more than happy to enjoy the advantages of Hindu caste, Muslim shaikhiness/sayyidity, Jewish network/support, and Christian commercial benefits. They like everything about religion except for the existence of a Supreme Being who can/will enforce the concept of retribution, judgment, and accountability.

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They do not want to bear burden of all the religious garbage. Now that doesn't give them right to force you or coax you to their way of thinking. Otherwise what's the difference between them and Muslims!

No Aethist or Muslim can force any body of anything in the modern world as in USA .


Do you really believe 20,000 non muslim covert /revert to islam.Will there head be chopped off if they dont?

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{"Salim, I suspect these 'moderate Hindus' as you describe them are truly enlightened. They do not want to bear burden of all the religious garbage. Now that doesn't give them right to force you or coax you to their way of thinking. Otherwise what's the difference between them and Muslims!"}

Cobra_contained
Please see my latest thread on this issue. I do not mean to single out just the "modern" Hindus - these so-called "atheists" are everywhere, including among Muslims. Yet, these die-hard believers in non-belief refuse to form their own "religion" because they prefer to identify with their faith of birth to pollute, divide, communalize, and benefit from the inability of those who believe to recognize this evil.

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Cobbes bhai

You either have preonceived idea of muslim/islam.If you are not Muslim you are well within your rights to believe or worship as you believe,You obviouly dont subscripe to Muslim point of view just identcall(same) as much as muslim dont to you .Dont get hung up on silly things like cirkit.muslim areexactly as much nationalist.In fact there are neumericall more hindus non nationalist due to larger population

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"Yes, hazrat, I claim that this "atheist" claim is nothing more than the "modern" Hindu's thinly-disguised attempt to ditch his own meaningless faith while trying to get others to do the same - regardless of the belief or logic of the latter's convictions."

Salim, I suspect these 'moderate Hindus' as you describe them are truly enlightened. They do not want to bear burden of all the religious garbage. Now that doesn't give them right to force you or coax you to their way of thinking. Otherwise what's the difference between them and Muslims!

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Shah, we are obviously brought up with a different value system. You may call names to ours if you want but one thing is we do firmly believe in separation of church and state and individual rights to practice (or not to practice) their personal faith as they see it (look around us, right from Islamic Republic of Pakistan to farther west non muslims have no rights to observe their personal faith in public. India, despite being Hindu majority state doesn't prevent you from flogging yourself silly on Moharrum). If you consider it as our weakness then that's your prerogative.

We may have varying views on religion but we are nationalist. Nation over ummah. That, prevents us from celebrating when a Muslim country wins in sports against India.

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kaal bhai where are you.Does your silence mean u still remain in preislamic period.or you want to remain so.

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Shah Sahib,
I compare "modern" Hindus to those people who have neither the good taste to dress properly nor the inclination to invest in tasteful attire. Therefore, they simply want everyone to go naked so they themselves don't look bad.

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{"The other from witty Pluralist hindu /muslim gunga jumne tehzeeb dan Shezade Baaghi Khurram aashiqe Hind Sallem "}

Shah Sahib,
Itni taareef ke hum khud ko na pehchaan paaye.
Agar meray alfaaz na hotay to mujhe ishq-e-jahaangiri se kon yad karta.

Yes, hazrat, I claim that this "atheist" claim is nothing more than the "modern" Hindu's thinly-disguised attempt to ditch his own meaningless faith while trying to get others to do the same - regardless of the belief or logic of the latter's convictions.

Of course, every attempt at "modernity" by the Hindus must include aping the gora's viewpoint, bias, and even terminology.

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,Uff' Why do i do this to myself

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