Salim Chauhan,
Can you deny what Imam Mohammad Bin Baqir said in Kitabur raudah page 115 about Caliphs Abu Bakr and Omar? Do you want me to quote Imam Khomeini and his stand on Tabarra? Just because most sunnis get taken in by Taqaiyya observing shias does not hide the real shia doctrine.

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AKCheema,
Understood. no issue.

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Janoo,
Please listen to Senna. Belief in Allah and love for His Last Messenger (PBUH) are all that matter. Everything else is purely political, economic, or turf issue. Stop the divisive details.

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Senna,


Tabarra: Encyclopedia II - Tabarra - Shia and Sunni differences

Tabarra - Shia and Sunni differences
Since Shias and Sunnis have different sources of hadith, they tend to come to diffrent conclusions regarding whom the enemies of Ahl al-Bayt are.

In some cases Sunni and Shia have the same view, for example regarding Abu Lahab, Abu Jahl and Umayah ibn Khalaf. But controverses arise concerning Sahabas since Sunnis belive in the Uprightness of all Sahaba while Shia do not.

Due to the Shia view of early Muslim history, one Shia scholar stated:

Regarding the doctrine of' 'Tabarri' we believe that we should seek disassociation from four idols namely, Abu Bakr, Omar, Uthman and Mu'awiyah; from four women namely, Ayesha, Hafsa, Hind and Ummul Hakam, along with all their associates and followers. 'These are the worst creation of Allah. It is not possible to believe in Allah, His Messenger and the Imams without disassociating oneself from their enemies. Haqqul Yaqeen: 2:519

Note that the scholar says "from their enemies" and not "from Umar & co". Every Muslim belives that it is important to disassociate themselves from the enemies of Muhammad, however Muslims differ upon who those are.


Shia also belive that this view was held by the descendants of Muhammad. Shia hold for authentic a narration attributed to Imam Muhammad al Baqir. He was reported to have replied to his disciple who had sought the Imam's opinion regarding Abu Bakr and Umar:

"What are you asking me about them (Abu Bakr and Umar)? Whoever among us (Ahl al-Bayt) or the progeny of Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) departed from this world, departed in a state of extreme displeasure with them. The elders among us admonished the younger ones to perpetuate it (extreme displeasure with them), Verily, the two of them have unjustly usurped our right. By Allah! These two were the first to settle on our (Ahl al-Bayt) necks . Therefore, may the la'nat (curse) of Allah, the Malaikah (angels) and of mankind be on the two of them. Kitabur Raudhah Page 115. In the same book, on the same page appears the following:

"Verily. these two (Abu Bakr and Umar) departed from this world without having made taubah for what they had perpetrated against Ameerul Mumineen Alayhis Salaam. In fact, they did not even think of us (of their wrongs against Hadhrat Ali). Therefore, the la'nat of Allah, the Malaikah and of mankind be on them." Kitabur Raudhah Page 115

Since Shia hold for authentic narrations where the desendants of Muhammad cursed the Sunni Caliphs, Shia also curse them when doing tabarra.


This added to the persecution of the Shias by the Sunnis. To protect themself in times where their life where in jeopardy, Shias used the doctrine of Taqiyya and where prevented from using tabarra in public.

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Janoo

Are you joking or spreading fitna

"Tabarra (Arabic: تبرأ‎) - is a Shia Muslim doctrine that refers to the obligation of hating those who hate Allah and According to Shia Islam, it is obligatory to hold utter hatred towards a person who has committed atrocities against Prophet Muhammad and his family."

Allah Mohommed is held in same status as sunnis .what would sunni want any thing different

There is political more emphasis on tragedy of Karbala.Every body mourns Ashura Muharram Not unlike Shia and they know that.Some people for political reason say shia spit on food when suuni is invited and Shia is led to believe Sunni are Yazid follwer when it is farthest from truth.As long as one believes in Mohommed And Allah bingo .There are immediate peers sufis Burhanuddin Aga Khan ahlul bait its like being murid.As long as Root and stem remains intact leaves can be different who cares except fitna walla on both sides

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When Tabarra is a part of shia imaan which makes it cumpulsory on it's believers to insult and use derogatory terms for Abu Bakr, Omar, Usman and Ayesha,and consider them as kafir then it becomes impossible for any sunni to accept shias as muslim.

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cheemay...it is rather sad when ppl r confused..they initially want to be different maybe cause they hated there parents or watever but eventuality is usually loneliness n desertion from loved ones..my apologies to u dear sir

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Hamza sahib,

I take no credit whatsoever in this nonsense; credit goes to the last 1400 years or so of Islamic history, of which I am as much a part as you or any other claiamants here.

Senna sahib,

I saw your posts from yesterday; feel free to browse through my 'interact' history to see where I am coming from.

And please don't use the same logic as Hamza sahib that you were not distressed; something must be the matter for you to keep going after me like this.

I wish you both well; I have work to do so

Khuda Hafiz

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How about new age religion called Keema...we all know it is ground meat and aproprietly it could be mixture ,little bit of this little bit of that to please hindu sikh jain buddhist ...every one

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u didnt give me any distress...i like disrespecting ppl who give themselves too much credit...no big deal.

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Selim mian,

I don't have more than a few minutes; I just saw your distress which is totally understandable.

As for me, I have made it clear earlier in the same post as to my POV on the whole thing.

If someone comes to me and says they are muslims, that is sufficient for me to accept them as such.

I do think Shias are muslims, no less than their sunni counterparts; at the end of the day, it matters less what I think and more what people who 'decide' on matters of such importance think....please don't start about the 'personal faith' and mullah hijacking cliches; I am referring to the reality on the ground here.

Hamza sahib, I apologise for causing you some distress; 'senile einstein' eh! I don't think I am worthy enough to be associated with such a great name. As for my senility, if a 36 years old is senile in your book, so be it; again, it matters less what I think here.

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no shit

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Hamza sahib,
Qayamt is near, when:

Whores lecture young girls about chastity
Injuns freely rattle off percentages
Qadianis insist on being called followers of the very man (PBUH) they insult
Atheists telling us about the true intentions of God
Brahmins lecturing people about inbreeding.

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Yes we should be learning about Islam and its intrinsic technicalities from fukking athiests ...what amazes the fukk outta is that in very near future these senile 'einsteins' wont be able to remember there names but they have the audacity of not just being unsure about the cosmic reality but are actually certain that they got it all figured out...n we all should be listening to them...abbay bhosRRI kayy apni naakon say aagay daykhna seekho...aqlay kull maderchod

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