Eklavya;
"You NEVER hear of riots or violence between Muslims and non-Muslims in Islamic countries."

What the hell do you think goes on in Lebanon every few years????

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Kaal bhai,

even if you keep muslims out of the equation, hindus will kill christians or lower caste hindus.

Forget india, even in Los Angeles, during the riots, the blacks and koreans and whites squared off against the black anger at injustice against them. So did knowing that one is different from the other help them?

You can never realistically seperate people so that there are no differences. Communism tried this: no classes all are equally wealthy (or poor); no religion.

Yet, we see that even communism could not overcome the differences of race and language.

So there are differences ...heck every human is a unique individual. But if you add fuel to the fire of fear "I am alone", then all you get is more fear and hatred.

You cannot keep harping on differences as there is no place where differences can eventually stop. None. You can keep categorizing and classifying in a million different ways. With your approach, the only way humans can be safe with each other is not to be with each other.

I am suggesting that there is way more in common in us than the differences. You focus on the commonalities, and you start to create a framework for understanding and peaceful co-existance.

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TS bhai, why do you think so?

I personally like the way this matter is resolved in Islamic countries. In all Islamic countries (is there an exception?) there is a clear and commonly shared understanding of differences between Muslim and non-Muslims, and both sides respect each other. You NEVER hear of riots or violence between Muslims and non-Muslims in Islamic countries.

In such countries, violence exists only among Muslims, and that because each group does not want to give others the necessary space to be differnet, according to their own lights.

I am not kidding or being ironic here. I definitely think that is a far better way of organizing inter-group relations because it is secure for everyone and can provide justice to all.

I will take your answer and then need to run for now. Thanks for your patience. I am definitely learning a lot from this converstation.

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{"Salimpi,
you lie.
There are so many indians you love dearly. Especially the ladies. Why even the statistically figured Sadna ji is a keen apple of your eyes, is she not? "}

Harry Pi
I have never laid a keen eye on that apple. Also, I do not discuss statistics, figures, percentages, and anything more complicated than caste #1, caste #2, caste #3, and caste #4 with Hindus.

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Kaal bhai,

let me explain to you that you can't go down that route.

IF you seperate the hindus from the muslims, then the hindus will kill each other during rioting based on caste.

If there is no caste, then killing will happen based on economic class.

Or tribes.

etc.

So you see, there is no way to keep people safe by making them differentiate. No way.

The only way is to encourage that people continue to focus on similarities.

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TS bhai, let me tell you something from personal experience, from having taken part in a little 'riot.' (I will explain that riot at another time).

What happens during a riot is that you see the other as completely other. The same thing happens in the eyes of the suicide bomber. In Gujrat, and with the crowd that killed that worker in Karachi, that's what happened.

We need to not get to that stage (if possible). One way to do that is to begin with the fact that people are different in what they value and how they think, although they also share many things for which they can come together temporarily, for limited purposes - under secure conditions.

IMHO, that would be a better way forward than to assume people are all the same, and to leave them unprepared to negotiate their differences - essentially what we have done in India (and probably throughout the non-Muslim world).

What do you think?

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Kaal bhai,

the essence of my post is that the world is not binary.

So all range of opinion should at least have a right to exist. However, harping on those differences makes it seem as if we are alien beings and not even human to each other, and since there is no way to co-exist if we only see the differences which are not that many, in reality, we keep on searching for "final solutions"

This is wrong.

There is way too much in common beween all of us than the differences. So it is important that people realize the differences (BTW, that's ALL we realize since politics of hatred have been around forever), and focus on the similarities so that we may treat each other well.

The soft heart can solve many more problems than the cold rigid mind ever could.

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TS bhai, agreed. ALL efforts toward recognizing differences can be misused, just as all methods for eliminating differences can be misused.

The last time Gandhi tried ram rajya for all, millions of innocent lives were lost. People are different. They want to be respected as different.

Let's begin with that realistic basis, and then find a way to create harmony.

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Kaal bhai,



you pretend to be a submissive bottom, but you are in reality a dominant masochist.

Salimpi,

you lie.

There are so many indians you love dearly. Especially the ladies. Why even the statistically figured Sadna ji is a keen apple of your eyes, is she not?

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Kaal bhai,

note that in my post, I am not stating that people should have the "Same" point of view, but that simply remaining in differences is going to create division and hatred.

oddly, the methods of division are exactly what caused the rawandan genocide or even the "final situation" from the mini moustached one.

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salimbro



If you check my ilogs from a few years ago, you would find me discussing a lot of S&M, quite often.

I had this crazy idea that understanding DS (Domination-Submission) could give us some insight into people's religious commitments. Didn't pursue that line much, but as you can imagine, it was a lot of fun.

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{"That's not love. That's domination."}

Kaal Bhayya,
Are you seriously going S&M?

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TS bhai, understanding others as different does not mean misunderstanding them. I don't think Muslims or anybody else distributed sweets. And that needs to be highlighted.

But in order to respect different points of view, one has to first acknowledge their reality, as different, not as extensions of one's own self. The latter view is too hegemonic, too selfish. That's not love. That's domination.

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Harry Pi,
Thank you for sharing these beautiful and timely thoughts with your audience. I have learned a lot from your kind discussion. Let me offer my sincere understanding about the Hindus next door:

They are extremely odorous - not only that but they smell a lot.

Many have noses of different widths, but in general their noses are connected in series to another Injun's rectum to form a human chain of self-righteous assholes - make that four chains, one for each caste type.

As for pigmentation, they do resemble the dark pigs that roam the streets of Jaipur.

I will let you know what else comes to mind so that we can differentiate between the good and the bad - personally I think the Hindus are just all ugly.

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Kaal bhai,

needless to say, I am disspaointed in your really odd sermonizing of the past couple of days....

You already have Ranger111 urf gujju jumping up and down and stating that muslims distributed sweets...

words carry weight amigo...you know that quite well.

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TS, we are differentiated only in love.

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